the Atlantic: The Elite College Students Who Can't Read Books

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

Perhaps, but as someone who moved her kids from public to private because of education quality, whether a private requires extensive reading is something that is easily determined. Also, requiring reading is becoming an admissions marketing point now, because private schools know people leave public for this reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

Perhaps, but as someone who moved her kids from public to private because of education quality, whether a private requires extensive reading is something that is easily determined. Also, requiring reading is becoming an admissions marketing point now, because private schools know people leave public for this reason.

Private schools in the DMV are not hurting for applicants, so why would they need to indicate "requiring reading" as an admissions marketing point.

However...I gather you are proving PP's point that you in fact have not read the article, correct?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

Yes, but many privates have dropped classic literature, which means the students arrive in college without the essential cultural background to understand allusions made in the college-level readings.

Allusions are always culturally bound and they do go obsolete. There was a great article in the New Yorker a few years ago about generational change and what people understand about the key cultural reference points of earlier generations. It's always discomfiting to discover that your cultural reference touchpoints are not known to younger people.

With the modern understanding that more types of peoples' experiences are worthy of study, kids are not receiving as common a literary foundation as in years past. I don't feel this is undermining our shared culture in any way as much as the changes in information flow (Internet, social media, mainstream vs. narrowcasted news).

In other words, the battles between the Murdoch heirs probably have more impact on our society than making sure everyone has read the Iliad, Great Expectations, and 1984.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kids are in MCPS. They do definitely read at least a few full books on English class. I wish it was more — it seems like it’s one full book per quarter plus then poems and short stories built around that. This quarter my 10tj grader is reading Circe. Last year he read Life of Pi as the last book but I can’t remember what else. I think they are decent books but I do wish they were reading more like 6-8 books a year and mixing in some older ones — maybe 1 19th century and a couple 20th century. It does seem like there is a preference for stuff that came out in the 21st century.

I think the colleges are getting what they asked for. They want kids that have endless extracurriculars, travel teams, competitive clubs that do regional/national competitions, kids that do tons of volunteer work or internships. Exactly when do they think kids are gojng to have time to just read novels? I read tons of novels growing up because my only extracurriculars were a couple clubs that met occasionally and did 1-2 events a year.

PP makes a great point about kids not having time for reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are in MCPS. They do definitely read at least a few full books on English class. I wish it was more — it seems like it’s one full book per quarter plus then poems and short stories built around that. This quarter my 10tj grader is reading Circe. Last year he read Life of Pi as the last book but I can’t remember what else. I think they are decent books but I do wish they were reading more like 6-8 books a year and mixing in some older ones — maybe 1 19th century and a couple 20th century. It does seem like there is a preference for stuff that came out in the 21st century.

I think the colleges are getting what they asked for. They want kids that have endless extracurriculars, travel teams, competitive clubs that do regional/national competitions, kids that do tons of volunteer work or internships. Exactly when do they think kids are gojng to have time to just read novels? I read tons of novels growing up because my only extracurriculars were a couple clubs that met occasionally and did 1-2 events a year.

PP makes a great point about kids not having time for reading.

They don't have time because their parents make them do all of these ridiculous activities. Your kid can get into a ton of schools without all of that bit parents are so nervous that they just do what everyone else does. If I tell you my kid only did a once a month activity and worked in the summer and got in everywhere, people will say that's a lie. It isn't but you've all bought into the lie that your kid won't get in anywhere without all of these activities. Why are you so insecure?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet this issue is less common at Oxbridge , where kids need to pass subject matter interviews before getting in

Like everywhere and anywhere, standards have been relaxed.

This has been said for every generation. We just have more tools to solve problems and don't need to conduct old fashion standards on everything. This isn't about the reading issue-that's a technology and poor teaching quality (an effect of the poor pay and amount of disrespect teachers take). I remember my engineering profs being hell bent on doing everything but touching a piece of code to solve issues; in reality, they would have never made it in industry, because they are not adaptable and only know rigid formalisms for every little thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/11/the-elite-college-students-who-cant-read-books/679945/

Students at elite universities such as Columbia are showing up to campus unable to read books. They've only read excerpts their entire school career. Many also struggle to write effectively. In response, many Columbia teachers have to water down the curriculum.

This is so disappointing. My DS is in a private school in CA and he's read multiple full novels (Homegoing, Their Eyes Were Watching God, Great Gatsby) in just 9th and 10th grades, full plays (Macbeth, Uncle Vanya) and poems (many modern ones as well as ancient epic poem Gilgamesh). He just started 11th grade a month ago, and he's almost finished reading the full 600-page Crime and Punishment. I'm sad that other schools are only giving abridged or excerpts or reducing assignments to only one novel per year. These difficult books have undoubtedly stretched and challenged my DS, and he'd rather play video games or read excerpts if given the choice, but stretching and challenging him has led to growth.

I wish we'd give our kids more credit.

That sounds like my CT public school in the 00s. Sad that you have to go private these days to get that quality!

You really don't. Virginia (where most of this forum seems to be from) just sounds like it has really poor education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

Perhaps, but as someone who moved her kids from public to private because of education quality, whether a private requires extensive reading is something that is easily determined. Also, requiring reading is becoming an admissions marketing point now, because private schools know people leave public for this reason.

Private schools in the DMV are not hurting for applicants, so why would they need to indicate "requiring reading" as an admissions marketing point.

However...I gather you are proving PP's point that you in fact have not read the article, correct?

I’m not the person you think I am, but yes, I did read the article. Also, marketing is part of all schools. You are naive if you think otherwise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

These kids who are doing so many different things… can’t do one or two of those basic things thoroughly and deeply. We’ve basically demanded kids be Instagram ready with their resumes and apps, without caring about whether they have learned or understood a damn thing. English majors are also way way down in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

I read War and Peace for fun because I had never read it in school. It was a slog in places, but I loved it. Tolstoy is cheeky.

My kids read for fun. Were also fortunate to have some teachers in MCPS that assigned full books and analyzed in depth. Their penchant for reading definitely helped them stand out with their teachers. Both in STEM magnets. But, they also conveyed this in their apps, which I would think is part of what attracted T15 schools to them. Neither applied to Columbia though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is 100% a public school problem. Private schools still require reading full books.

I guess you didn’t read the article.

The author herself said it is an increasingly private school issue as well as she attended a prep school where she had to read exactly one book all year.

Honestly, I don’t think 98% of the comments on this thread reflect reading more than the headline to this thread.

Perhaps, but as someone who moved her kids from public to private because of education quality, whether a private requires extensive reading is something that is easily determined. Also, requiring reading is becoming an admissions marketing point now, because private schools know people leave public for this reason.

My kid is at a private school in the SF Bay area. They read 4 full novels a year in 11th grade. (2 novels in 9th, 3 in 10th)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand this. Aren't admissions more competitive than ever? Aren't these the superhuman students who aced the hardest classes, scored extremely highly on SATs, had very time-consuming ECs....? We are told nobody has a chance at these schools, and yet, those who are actually there, can't read a book? How is this possible.

Test prep. Read a short passage find the main idea. Move onto the next skill. Meanwhile, they've never read a whole book about anything. I totally understand why this is happening. Since there's no homework these days, I assign it. My kid is always reading a book for homework, and we're always discussing it.

But that just sounds like a run of the mill 4.0 GPA/grade grabber who we are repeatedly told can't get into, e.g. Columbia.

I mean, my 8th grader is not a big reader and she read a non-fiction psychiatry book over just a few days this summer and we discussed it. Pretty sure she would be capable of discussing Pride and prejudice and Crime and punishment within a couple of weeks. I read these books in HS. They are interesting and not that hard to read.

Those books aren't interesting at all. I mean, Crime & Punishment? Are you now going to tell me War & Peace is interesting too?

Perhaps if we let a kid read a non-fiction psychiatry book instead of Pride and Prejudice or whatever, then things would be better.

But, if you want to read Crime & Punishment, then go for it.

I read War and Peace for fun because I had never read it in school. It was a slog in places, but I loved it. Tolstoy is cheeky.

My kids read for fun. Were also fortunate to have some teachers in MCPS that assigned full books and analyzed in depth. Their penchant for reading definitely helped them stand out with their teachers. Both in STEM magnets. But, they also conveyed this in their apps, which I would think is part of what attracted T15 schools to them. Neither applied to Columbia though.

Exactly, I love Tolstoy and I also read it for fun one summer. There are some dated parts about gender relations specifically, but as a full novel it's magnificent. Even with all the tangents (ie. Battle of Waterloo) it was such a meaningful read.

[Anonymous]

War and Peace is a blast. There's something in it for everyone -- military battles and strategy, romance, religion, philosophy, 4D-chess-level social machinations, mysteries of freemasonry, a secret abortion, big thoughts on free will ("one man" vs. flow of history), how to interpret the various colors found in poopy diapers, etc.

I've read it once in English for a class (I was a Russian Language and Literature major) and once in Russian for the fun of it (mostly while commuting on the DC Metro) (luckily for me there were footnote Russian translations for all the dialog in French).

Funny thing about it is that Tolstoy set out to write about the 1825 uprising, traced the origins of that to the War of 1812, and after 1000 or so pages never actually got to writing about the 1825 business.

Do I win a pechen'e?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:War and Peace is a blast. There's something in it for everyone -- military battles and strategy, romance, religion, philosophy, 4D-chess-level social machinations, mysteries of freemasonry, a secret abortion, big thoughts on free will ("one man" vs. flow of history), how to interpret the various colors found in poopy diapers, etc.

I've read it once in English for a class (I was a Russian Language and Literature major) and once in Russian for the fun of it (mostly while commuting on the DC Metro) (luckily for me there were footnote Russian translations for all the dialog in French).

Funny thing about it is that Tolstoy set out to write about the 1825 uprising, traced the origins of that to the War of 1812, and after 1000 or so pages never actually got to writing about the 1825 business.

Do I win a pechen'e?

I’m impressed—I was also a Russian language major and the longest book I ever read was master and margarita.

[Anonymous]

PP. Despite its length, W&P is much easier than M&M. Tolstoy uses fairly simple vocabulary and sentence structure.