TJ Admissions Roundup

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Really? I figured most of them were smart enough to know that being at TJ would tank their college prospects compared to being at their base HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Do you think merit is equally distributed by race?
There are cultural differences that generates more academic merit in some groups over others.

Once again, babies do not choose the parents they are born to. A child does not have more “merit” because of the “cultural differences” of the family they just happen to be born into.

As a community, we need a school like to TJ to bring in the kids who truly need the education provided there. We particularly need to find the kids who have not been born to families that “generate more academic merit.” Children born to families that encourage academics will do fine, no matter what their level of intelligence is. The bright children born to families that do not have the bandwidth to encourage academics are the kids who truly need a school like TJ.

Kids whose parents encourage academics already won the lottery. It’s the smart kids who didn’t win the lottery who truly need the education available at TJ.

This is the hard work of equity. Some kids will be fine because their parents, but these other kids won’t because of their parents? They seem to fine enough to have a 3.9 in FCPS MS though but not fine enough so give them extra points and opportunities over these other kids.

Ultimately this is a prevailing thought process with regards to public school resources. It’s a charity. Ignore kids with good parents and cater to kids with bad parents. We see this in classrooms across the county, not just TJ admissions. This is equity at work.

That’s why many people want AAP and send their kids to centers even if they aren’t truly gifted. Otherwise they are ignored… because they’ll be fine.

The PP poster has a fundamental misunderstanding of what TJ has to offer.
They talk about TJ like they have some sort of secret sauce that they hand out that makes random kids smarter.
This is not true. There's a lot of analogies that come to mind.
Fine sandpaper is useless if you use it on the rough cut.
You stall out if you try to start your car in 3rd gear.
Trying to temper unsmelted ore is a waste of good ore.

For 95% of kids, going to TJ would be a disaster.
For the other 5% it's painful in a "that which doesn't kill you makes you stronger sort of way"
We are seeing this disaster play out as unqualified kids flounder there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

This post needs to be pinned to the top of this board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

This post needs to be pinned to the top of this board.

You only think that because you are a racist.
This should be about merit but for you it's all about race.

What's important isn't that the asian admissions went from 75% to 55%.
What's important is that we went from 100% merit based to a relatively random selection of the top 40% of students.
We will see what the SAT scores look like for the class of 2025.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

This post needs to be pinned to the top of this board.

You only think that because you are a racist.
This should be about merit but for you it's all about race.

What's important isn't that the asian admissions went from 75% to 55%.
What's important is that we went from 100% merit based to a relatively random selection of the top 40% of students.
We will see what the SAT scores look like for the class of 2025.

You are cherry picking the data. If you look at the 4 years prior to the chance and the 4 years after, there are, on average, 29 fewer Asian students per admitted clsss - that is an 8% reduction.



Looking at the % breakdown of the classes, it was more like 70% to 60%.


And there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history. Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

This post needs to be pinned to the top of this board.

You only think that because you are a racist.
This should be about merit but for you it's all about race.

What's important isn't that the asian admissions went from 75% to 55%.
What's important is that we went from 100% merit based to a relatively random selection of the top 40% of students.
We will see what the SAT scores look like for the class of 2025.

You are cherry picking the data. If you look at the 4 years prior to the chance and the 4 years after, there are, on average, 29 fewer Asian students per admitted clsss - that is an 8% reduction.



Looking at the % breakdown of the classes, it was more like 70% to 60%.


And there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history. Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

You are cherry-picking the data. Asian students comprise more TJ than all other groups combined. You need to find a new hobby.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

Thanks again for clearing this up. This post and the links that corroborate the test-buying scandal need to be pinned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

That's a bit like saying 1/3 of the ivy league admits were p[rinceton review or Kaplan customers, isn't it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the other hand, there might be lots of less advantaged kids who are more likely to find solutions to future problems because they are better at original thinking because they haven’t had everything handed to them by parents who are financially well off and/or focused on education.

I was the kid who was a NMF from a less advantaged family, so I know that kids like that need more support from the schools than kids who get plenty of support at home. As a society, it would be too bad to lose out on all that those kids can do in the future.

I don't doubt that less advantaged kids can achieve a lot.
I was not wealthy growing up, if you want to argue about who grew up poorer, we can have that debate but I think I met the threshold for growing up poor.
My family was on government assistance from time to time.
I know what government cheese, government peanut butter and government canned meat taste like.
I can tell you the denomination of a food stamp by its color.
But I also think that poor kids can meet objective measures of academic merit as well as anyone else.

There are three selective high schools in NYC whose alumni have won a ton of math and science prizes including 15 nobel prizes, a handful of wolf, field, abel, prizes in math, and a bunch of others.
These schools range from 40% to 60% free/reduced lunch.
Admissions to these schools is based on a single test.
The SHSAT is more or less the same test that TJHSST used until recently.
In this day and age of test prep, the population at these schools are significantly poorer than TJ and even more asian.

We know how to give preferences for poverty while preserving merit but we didn't do that at TJ because that was not the purpose of the change.
The purpose of the change was to reduce the asian population and increase the population of kids of other skin colors.
If we tried to preserve preferences for poverty while preserving merit, we would have seen an even larger concentration of asians as poor asians take a disproportionate number of spots meant for poor kids.

Are you sure about that? I thought the change was to address the rampant test buying and allow those who can't afford that a level playing field.

That was never stated by any school board official that I’m aware of.

It was in the 4th circuit opinion to the c4tj lawsuit.

No it wasn’t.

I'm on your side but the appellate opinion states:
"Nevertheless, in the 2021
application cycle, Asian American students attending middle schools historically
underrepresented at TJ saw a sixfold increase in offers, and the number of low-income
Asian American admittees to TJ increased to 51 — from a mere one in 2020."

I think this is probably the result of the fact that if you have a quota for every school, a very large percentage of those from poor schools are going to be asian.

Honestly, I think a place like TJ should only care about academic ability and not about how hard it was for individual students to achieve that academic ability because being poor or or being hispanic isn't going to make the curriculum easier for you and unless they also change academic standards for you within TJ based on your income or skin color, the differences in academic ability are going to start to be apparent.

We have seen SOLs drop significantly.
We have seen PSATs drop by over 100 points.
We have seen grades drop precipitously with the math department sending out an email saying that this was the worst performance they have ever seen.
This year we will see SAT scores and then college admissions and it will become apparent that we have replaced a hierarchy of merit with a hierarchy of perceived oppression.

We are replacing the hierarchy of merit with the hierarchy of perceived oppression.
This is bad for society and civilization.

The claim was the admissions were changed because of test buying. That’s just not true. Not even a little bit was mentioned by the SB.

The problem was that people gamed admissions so that only students from the most affluent schools had a fair shot. There are some posters try to cover this inconvenient fact up.

Mostly because you're lying to cover up the fact that this change was driven by racism against asians.
Your comments about indians are pretty gross and racist.

Your claim doesn't add up when you consider the facts.

1) The largest demographic cohort at TJ is still Asian by a considerable margin.
2) The selection process is still race-blind, and it's a matter of law.
3) The data shows the most significant beneficiaries of the admission change was low-income Asian families.

Asian cohort went from 75% to roughly their share of the applicant pool (50% of the applicants were asian and 55% of the admitted students were asian)
The selection process is race blind but the process was changed from a merit based process to the current method in order to achieve racial balance.
There was a significant increase in poor asian kids. This was an inevitable result of selecting for poverty, culture makes an even greater difference at the low end of the ses scale. If they could have figured out a race neutral way to replace those 50 poor asian kids with 50 middle class black/hispanic kids, they would have.

If you average a few years before and a few years after it was more like 70% to 60%.


There are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history.

Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

This post needs to be pinned to the top of this board.

You only think that because you are a racist.
This should be about merit but for you it's all about race.

What's important isn't that the asian admissions went from 75% to 55%.
What's important is that we went from 100% merit based to a relatively random selection of the top 40% of students.
We will see what the SAT scores look like for the class of 2025.

You are cherry picking the data. If you look at the 4 years prior to the chance and the 4 years after, there are, on average, 29 fewer Asian students per admitted clsss - that is an 8% reduction.



Looking at the % breakdown of the classes, it was more like 70% to 60%.

And there are MORE Asian students at TJ since the admissions change than almost any other year in the school’s history. Asian students still make up the majority of students. More than all other groups, combined.

You are cherry-picking the data. Asian students comprise more TJ than all other groups combined. You need to find a new hobby.

Asians are the majority of the applicant pool.
You would expect a largely random selection method to select more asians than other groups.
You're a racist.
You're a racist because your focus is race when it should be merit.
Elevating race over merit is what racists do.
You're a racist.

If there is racism in the system that makes it easier for asians to succeed than whites, then we should address that racism.
It shouldn't be hard to find or identify because asians cross the country in every state and at every income level is outperforming their white peers (especially their non-immigrant white peers)... by a LOT, so it must be something pretty blatant.
Or it could just be that asians value education more than other groups. They sacrifice more for education than other groups. And so they have better results than other groups.
Culture matters and trying to eliminate the effects of culture is not levelling the playing field it is creating an environment where success is handed out and not earned. A n environment where noone has to improve they just have to be more oppressed than the next guy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Once again, if you can just buy your way into TJ, why aren't there more white kids there?

Because they aren’t as driven by national rankings? Not as interested in STEM or a grind HS experience?

It was well known in my affluent area that you could greatly improve chances of admissions by paying $$$ for prep classes.

It’s a choice that affluent families had.

20 years ago, TJ was majority white. Did they suddenly develop a disdain STEM and competitive high schools over the last 4 years? Or did they get crowded out?

Not so suddenly, but yes, there has been less push for kids to attend ultra competitive environments. The number of white applicants has been declining over the years.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

I haven't looked at all years, but during previous thread I looked at the numbers for class of 2015.
56% of all Asian 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
99% of them did apply

45% of all white 8th graders in FCPS were eligible to apply to TJ
49% of them did apply


FWIW, 92% of eligible black 8th graders in FCPS that year applied.

Here are the numbers.

Only half of eligible white students applied (vs 99% of Asian students). They don’t want the competitive environment.

I was a STEM kid at a competitive HS who went on to a T10 program. I intentionally did not encourage my kids to go to TJ.

The eligibility criteria were laughably low. I think the GPA requirement was like a 3.0.

There was a time when TJ was majority white, the white kids didn't leave, they got pushed out.
See this chart by the college board showing that 22% of asian kids geta 750 or higher on the math section of the SAT. That number if 4% for whites.
23% of asians get a 1400 SAT score or higher, that number if 7% for whites kids
9% of asians get a 1500 SAT score or higher, than number is 2% for white kids
White kids are clearly trying to get good SAT scores but they cannot seem to do so at the same rate as asians.

The white kids weren't foregoing tjhsst because they didn't want to deal with the competitive environment. They couldn't get in and they knew it so they didn't try.

Yes, as the prep wars escalated, many were pushed out because it just wasn't worth spending $20k on prep to ensure admissions.

$20K on prep? Pfft, this isn't travel ball.

I don't know exactly how much curie is but it looks like a couple thousand a year at most and the test prep is $300.
This is just more racist rationalization trying to explain why asians are outperforming white kids all over the country and at every income level.

For the “signature program” it’s $7k for all 4 semesters. More if you start your kid before 7th grade.

“Curie Learning’s Signature Level 7/8 Program
This program incorporates high-level coursework in math, English, writing, science, and critical thinking, with a focus on preparation for success in high school and college. This program will help students to not only prepare for any advanced institutions such as AOS/AET and TJ, but also to succeed and even thrive in any high school and later in any college/university.

Semester 1: (4 classes/month) $1,095.00 Aug. 25th, 2023 - Dec.19th, 2023
*Semester 2: (7 classes/month) $1,850.00 Jan. 2nd, 2024 - June 23rd, 2024
Additional $300 for extra classes for new students. (Mandatory)
Semester 3 (option 1): (8-11 classes/month) $1,850.00 + $300 (TJ/AOS/AET Extra Prep classes):
Jul.8th, 2024 - Dec 2024
Semester 3 (option 2): (7 classes/month) $1,200.00 Sept 2023 - Dec 2023
Semester 4: (6 classes/month) $1,600.00 Jan 2024-Jun 2024”

So about $280/month?
That's not nothing but it doesn't seem like a rich kid program.

Can't argue with success. Their ad in the paper showed that one-third of TJ's entering class were their customers.

That's a bit like saying 1/3 of the ivy league admits were Princeton review or Kaplan customers, isn't it?

Don't expect the numerically challenged poster to understand this.

Curie TJ prep classes total around 1000 students and I think around 2500 students apply to TJ. So Curie admit rate is about equal or less than the overall admit rate.

-The Real Curie Owner