Mom Cliques. I had no idea.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

But it really doesn't matter that these were all fellow moms at OP's kid's school whom OP is thus acquainted with. Surely there are plenty more than 15 kids at the school, and all those other moms of those kids -- who are probably also friendly with one or two someones at that table -- weren't there either. OP's post describes one instance of moms meeting up to socialize. It does not describe cliquish behavior. (Maybe these women are cliquey, but we wouldn't know that in the slightest from the OP.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

Why would you assume her friends were the organizers of this event and had control over the guest list?

Also, I bet you every single woman at that event had a friend (or 10!) they could have invited in theory. By your logic anything other than an open invite is an awkward exclusionary event.

I’m also willing to bet that women who don’t act all petty/awkward about minor stuff like this and try to stir up drama are more likely to be invited to things. So OP is likely to have set her own self fulfilling prophecy.

No one is assuming that. The point is that if there were 15 women at the event, then yeah, one of the women who was close to OP could have extended the invite to her and even if they weren't the "official organizer" of the event (it is highly unlikely there was an official organizer because that's not how most people's friend groups function), it would have been fine. They didn't. So they either didn't think of her or they thought of her and were like "eh, no." That's why OP was embarrassed. Normal.

You are inventing these very specific scenarios where this was some kind of strictly organized event that OP could not possibly been included in and for her to feel otherwise is ridiculous, and it really doesn't sound like that was the case.

But then you leave out this person, that person, and another person. Everyone has multiple acquaintances and other friends in subdivisions. Do you think there are only 16 families at this entire school?

Yes. Omg you all are exhausting. This is beyond bananas that anyone would care about this and be offended enough to send a text about not getting invited. Wave, say hi, move on with your day. That is all OP needed to do. OP has said nothing indicting this is some mean mom
Clique.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

[Anonymous]

I don't know if OP is someone who needs to hear this, but here goes: friendships, even so-called "mom friendships", take time, work, and effort. You don't get an invites to the lunches, etc. just by showing up at the bus stop or soccer practice and making chit chat about your kids' schedules or the weather. You need to reach out to people, ask them to have coffee or go for a walk, show interest in their lives, have actual conversation, form connections... Sometimes you need to be the one to organize and host the outing... I hear women complain about being excluded or cliques, but they are doing diddly squat to try and form friendships.

Presumably it was only like one or two of these women who initiated and organized the get together. And presumably it was the initiators/organizers who got to set the guest list, which also presumably had a cap since this was at restaurant or similar venue. OP it probably wasn't one of the women that you are closer with who were doing the planning and inviting. NBD.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

NP. No, the PP is correct. So many people in this thread tying themselves into knots dreaming up scenarios to gaslight OP. And anyone who tries to be understanding towards her. You guys are the ones who are weirdly invested in defending mom cliques.

The lack of empathy and sometimes outright hostility on the part of some PPs lends credence to the idea of mom cliques. So desperate to defend your right to exclude.

+1

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

Did I miss why the subdivision is relevant? These women have kids are your school, but they don't all live in your subdivision, right?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?

Are you taking notes this point?

I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.

What you’re doing is monologuing.

DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.

Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.

Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?

Are you taking notes this point?

I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.

What you’re doing is monologuing.

DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.

Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.

Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.

No, the longwinded posts are the from those triggered by seeing groups of women out with out them and their intense FOMO.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I haven't read the whole thread. Did the person OP texted text her back?

Agree we need an update on that Stat even if the response was crickets. OP don't let us down.

If I were the OP, I'd give you nothing. The PPs on here will twist anything she says to make the situation her fault and tell her how she deserves to be left out of every activity ever. It's absolutely bananas on this thread.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?

Are you taking notes this point?

I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.

What you’re doing is monologuing.

DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.

Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.

Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.

No, the longwinded posts are the from those triggered by seeing groups of women out with out them and their intense FOMO.

Nope.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Is this a private school, by any chance, OP?

OP—No. Fringe rural LCPS.

Is it your belief that if those other 2 families in your neighborhood ever do anything , even an activity that perhaps neither organized but were invited to, that they must include you?

How many knots are you going to twist yourself into to be "right" that OP is "wrong" about this?

You are so married to the idea that it is NEVER okay for a woman to feel left out or excluded, that when a woman says she felt that way, you are going to tear it apart until she admits she's the one in the wrong.

Why do you think you are like this? Why is it so hard for you to just think "yeah, I can see how that might have been uncomfortable for you"?

You’re weirdly worked up about one person’s comment. Take a break from the thread if you’re taking it that personally.

Nope, not worked up, just baffled by the commitment to the idea that OP is unreasonable here. I've never been in OP's exact position but I get why it was awkward and weird and didn't immediately jump to the conclusion she is overreacting.

Well, you seem oddly invested in the idea that these women went out of their way to exclude OP because she, along with many other schools parents, wasn’t invited. OP never did say if she was planning to invite every one of these women to the event she is planning at the same winery.

I never said I thought that these women went out of their way to exclude OP. I think probably it was either an accident (a text chain about the gathering and the people who might have invited OP either forgot to include her or were added to the group late enough that they didn't invite anyone) or maybe this is how OP found out that she wasn't as close to these particular women (meaning the group from her neighborhood she is actually friends with) as she thought.

I just agree that the incident would be kind of awkward and believe OP that it felt awkward in the moment. And I don't think it's weird she felt that way, as I can imagine a similar situation where I would also feel awkward. That's all. I don't think it was some giant conspiracy to exclude OP, but she *was* excluded (whether simply by accident or maybe a bit more purposefully, but probably not maliciously) and it's reasonable that she would feel the sting of that when it happened.

I think the people who are calling OP crazy or delusional or acting like it's totally unreasonable to feel as she did are protesting a little too much. You can empathize with OP without casting the other women involved as vicious mean girls.

But the incident wasn’t awkward and there was no need for anyone to feel awkward. No one did anything wrong.

She could have handled it like bumping into someone at the grocery store because this is essentially what this is. She happened to see a couple friends out doing something that didn’t concern her. A smile and wave is a normal response. Why be weird about it?

No, you are the one projecting facts onto this. OP said it was awkward, but you asserts it was not. She was there, you were not. She describes it as being normal at first when it was 4 or 5 women, but then a bunch more arrived and it became awkward. This makes sense to me, that as more women arrived it became increasingly weird that they were all getting together and OP didn't know anything about it. That is what OP describes and thus that is what I assume happened. Why are you so convinced her perception of this incident is incorrect? You weren't there so her word is all we have.

I'm not inventing any facts and just going on what OP is saying, I can empathize. You are imposing your own baggage onto it because you are determined to prove that OP misinterpreted a situation about which you only have OP's description. Why? You're tilting at windmills here and I don't get it.

NP. But…why would it be awkward for *people she’s not friends with* to get together without her? She doesn’t even know like 80% of the women there.

This. It is objectively not awkward to be excluded from a group of people you barely know. Add in the fact she seems gleeful about sending a follow up snark text and the resulting bus stop drama sounds like textbook BPD. I don’t take OP as a very reliable narrator.

This comment makes no sense. She knew about a third of the group reasonably well. It doesn't sound like the others were strangers, either, because otherwise how would she recognize them? If it was just two friends and then a bunch of total strangers, I would assume my friends were hanging out with the ladies from their barre class. But OP knew it was a group of moms from the school, likely because she knew 5 of them and had met the other 10.

The whole "these weren't her friends, they were strangers" narrative is something being pushed on OP but it's not what she said at all.

Not PP, but she is only actual friends with 2 of the 15. It’s insane to me that if I saw 2 friends, 3 acquaintances, and 10 women I didn’t know at all out to lunch together, that that would count as me being singled out and excluded.

OP here—I live in a small subdivision maybe 15 houses. Most of the moms (except for one) are moms from my kids classes. There was one mom that was not, but I know her as well. We had coffee together a couple of times.

So most aren't your neighbors, some of the moms are in some of your kids' classes, and you don't even know them all very well. What do you think the connection is among these women and why do you think you should have been included? It wasn't all the neighborhood, or all the parent in all the classes, what makes you so special?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?

Are you taking notes this point?

I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.

What you’re doing is monologuing.

DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.

Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.

Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.

No, the longwinded posts are the from those triggered by seeing groups of women out with out them and their intense FOMO.

Nope.

I guess you missed the last 21 pages.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I’d also feel weird if I went somewhere 15+ other women were having lunch and I hadn’t been included. I think other posters are delusional if they think this wouldn’t affect them in the slightest.

That said I have no interest in developing friendships with other moms from school. I do my own thing and my social life doesn’t revolve around school events, volunteering or my kids.

This is where I land. There is a bit of a mom clique at my DD's elementary. They were pretty cold to me initially but as my DD became friends with their kids, they started extending invites. But the truth is, I don't want my social circle to be so closely tied to my DD's. I also don't like to just socialize with coworkers. I'm friendly and pleasant with people both places, but decline most invites and my close friendships are with old friends I've known since before kids and most don't work in my industry.

Part of the reason why is that I think these communities are more susceptible to these kinds of dynamics, with someone getting left out, or feeling left out, and then there's awkwardness or drama. I don't like that feeling if being unsure of my friendships, or like I need to work to maintain my role in a group. I didn't like that those other moms only became interested in me as a friend after our DD's became friends, for instance. That's a weird metric for deciding if you want to be friends with someone, IMO.

OP said the other women are empty nesters or parents of MS/HS kids who don’t live in her neighborhood. I still can’t understand why anyone is validating her feelings that this was some sort of sleight. The vast majority of the group isn’t her friend. Don’t you think every single woman at that lunch has a multitude of other friends who weren’t invited? What makes OP so special that she and not all the other friends of the women in the group deserve an invite?

Do you think when she gets together with a group of friends she is feeling bad that all their other friends she doesn’t know weren’t also invited?

No wonder some of you on this board can go function socially in the world if this is how you emotionally handle a group of people you hardly know having lunch.

When you get together with 15 other women, are every one of them your friend? Probably not. When I go out with a group like that, usually I am friends with a couple people and friendly with maybe a few more, and then the rest will either be acquaintances or I might never have met them. Actually just a couple days ago I went out with four friends and one was a very close friend, one was a friend I've known forever but am not that close to, and the other two I'd never met before (but were friends of my friends). This is very normal.

So actually it would be very normal for her friends to have included her in this outing and I think it was awkward when she ran into them because this was apparent to those involved -- they could have invited her but didn't, and it makes it seem like she was excluded. It probably wasn't on purpose but it also means they didn't think of her, which still hurts a little.

Also I think you are misreading the OP. All the women at the winery were moms from her kids' school -- I think she knew all of them at least by site. The group of empty-nesters and moms of older kids is a reference to the other women in her subdivision. I think she is saying that in her subdivision, there are only a few moms of kids in the elementary school, and she is one of them. And all the others were at this gathering with other moms from the same school, and she was the only one from her specific neighborhood who wasn't invited. She was not saying that the gathering was two women from her kids school and then a bunch of empty-nesters and moms of older kids.

She said 2 were from her "submission" and 3 were acquaintances. And the other 10? Maybe she just recognized them? Come on. Everyone has a friend like OP in that group how would it work if every one of those people also had to be invited?

Are you taking notes this point?

I'm reading what was written, it's not that hard. What I'm not doing is spinning some wild tale and filling the the gaps that these were OPs bestest friends, she threw them all a baby shower, and of course this was a malicious oversight and the only thing she can do now is sell her house.

What you’re doing is monologuing.

DP. Not at all. I and many other posters here have read all the actual words that the OP wrote about what happened and we all think she blew the situation way out of proportion.

Another DP. Based on little information, you are all projecting your own biases on this situation. Some of the overlong posts on here are just crazy with the invented details in order to justify gaslighting the OP.

Some people really do use DCUM as some kind of therapy.

What are you taking about? Based on the little information, there is nothing at all weird or wrong that these women did. The only bizarre part was OPs text.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:It sounds like you made unnecessarily awkward. People are allowed to meet up without you. If you had just been friendly and not made an issue of it, you might have been invited to the next one.

See I’m not hearing that at all. sounds like the knew they were being exclusionary and it was obvious. If anything cracking a joke about it diffuses the awareness.

How many people have to be invited to not be exclusionary? The whole class? Entire grade? All school? What is the rule here you seem to be applying?

DP but I think you are missing the point. It's not about the exact number, though it is relevant it was a pretty large group. OP obviously knew enough of the women, or some of them well enough, that it seemed weird she hadn't even been invited. Thus, the awkwardness. It could have been just a 4 or 5 women and it would have been awkward if OP thought she was fairly close to all or most of them. Or it could have been 50 women and it would have been awkward if just one of them was a close friend.

It's exclusionary because OP appears to have been excluded. It looked like something she could/should have been invited to but wasn't, and thus it appears she was left out either on purpose or by accident (both of which feel bad). Thus, it was awkward.

This is so dumb. If there were 15 people there, it's likely that every single other parent in the class know several people there. According to your logic, they all should feel hurt that they weren't invited too - which would be ridiculous.

People are allowed to socialize with their friends without taking a poll to make sure that anyone with a connection to three of them also is invited.

And OP's text - oh boy. That is, 100%, being circulated amongst the other moms, accompanied by eyerolls and comments about how they'll definitely not invite OP next time, either.