Companies are on the war path against remote work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If I’m going to RTO, I refuse to do anything after hours from home, either. If I’m not allowed to WFH, that means I’m not required to.

You do realize that this just hurts your performance review, right? The labor market is loosening and companies realize they can now just replace poor performers and malcontents.

Btw, Gen Z is dying to get some in office time so they can be properly trained and mentored.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

So your first part denies that there are any employees new to the workforce that would prefer to be in the office?
And your second part says that the opinions of those people that you just denied existed should not count?

Am I getting that right?

[Anonymous]

Fulltime onsite presence for everyone does not work.
Fulltime offsite for everyone does not work.

The obvious answer here seems to be some hybrid that allows a lot of flexibility, but still requires everyone to be onsite some minimum amount of time- whether that be once or twice a week, or a full week per quarter, or something like that.

Yes there are individual employees and employers on the extremes, but as a whole the workforce will land somewhere in the middle. And that seems appropriate, given all the factors involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.

It's different. The lack of in-person meetings and spontaneous interactions makes it harder to build real connections, and those connections matter both for doing your job well and future networking. For me, WFH is still worth it because I have kids, I already have a strong network, and I have in-person professional events not tied to my current job. But if you're young, you miss out on a lot.

Disagree assuming your employer uses Teams. You simply have to use available technology.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I’m going to RTO, I refuse to do anything after hours from home, either. If I’m not allowed to WFH, that means I’m not required to.

You do realize that this just hurts your performance review, right? The labor market is loosening and companies realize they can now just replace poor performers and malcontents.

Btw, Gen Z is dying to get some in office time so they can be properly trained and mentored.

This is not happening. There is a skilled labor shortage that likely won’t improve anytime soon. Many companies have a large % of employees at or above retirement age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.

In her case as a Junior Junior person she is assigned to one boss. Her and one other young new hire. Actually other is part time intern to go full time in May when he graduates. They live in three different states. It is apparent her boss has no childcare and also has a second job. Her boss is online maybe 1-2 hours a day tops. She is actually doing 100 percent of her bosses job. And having intern help out. There is nothing to learn. She is not ratting out her boss. It is scary she is doing 6-7 hours a work a day.

Without RTO hard to interact people she does not work with and network. Her boss will milk this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.

It's different. The lack of in-person meetings and spontaneous interactions makes it harder to build real connections, and those connections matter both for doing your job well and future networking. For me, WFH is still worth it because I have kids, I already have a strong network, and I have in-person professional events not tied to my current job. But if you're young, you miss out on a lot.

Disagree assuming your employer uses Teams. You simply have to use available technology.

I'm on Teams. I very much use the available technology. There's information that people aren't going to share with you on Teams. There's trust that doesn't get built as quickly, or at all. No one walks by your desk and it occurs to them to pull you into a meeting they wouldn't have otherwise. You don't get coffee and chat with someone and realize you're running into the same problem. You don't have a question where you don't know who to ask, but you know where their division sits so you can go upstairs and find out who to talk to. All of these were experiences that I had in the six months or so prior to COVID. Again, this is worth it to me to WFH, but if you're not missing out on interpersonal interactions via remote work, you were missing out on them before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fulltime onsite presence for everyone does not work.
Fulltime offsite for everyone does not work.

The obvious answer here seems to be some hybrid that allows a lot of flexibility, but still requires everyone to be onsite some minimum amount of time- whether that be once or twice a week, or a full week per quarter, or something like that.

Yes there are individual employees and employers on the extremes, but as a whole the workforce will land somewhere in the middle. And that seems appropriate, given all the factors involved.

This. Anyone who saw the writing on the wall and bought a large house in a second ring suburb will be well-positioned for the inevitable (for most office workers) hybrid future of work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

The same as if she were in the office. Really. She should volunteer for work, ask for more work, attend meetings, schedule follow-up meetings to ask Qs since she is new, etc. It should not be any different. The world is not moving away from virtual so someone like your daughter needs to learn how to use technology to get what she needs out of her job. Someone who can’t message someone on Teams to ask if she can help with something isn’t necessarily going to be able to stop by someone’s office and ask the same question.

omg Have you all ever seen a new hire do all of that??! It is a struggle to get anyone to do any of that. They want me to assign discrete tasks, then I have to assign more after those are done. There is no follow up. they don't collaborate with other divisions. They have trouble figuring out who to ask for help on Teams (I have trouble too). It is very difficult to ever get ahold of anyone. No one volunteers for extra work (I've heard people on dcum say that too. They go do chores when they're out of work.)

I'm a fan of hybrid work, but wish we could all be in the office on the same day to help collaborate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

On one hand, I understand but on the other, your daughter has opportunities to make her own hobbies and interests and chill. What is she not learning?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It really blows my mind when people think that their own commute, expenses, and productivity are all that matter when companies set these policies.

To be clear, individuals should absolutely advocate and take action that is in their own best interest. Your job is a huge part of your life. If it isn't working for you, change your job or influence your employer to change their policies. Have at it! And if you organize and are effective at preserving permanent WFH flexibility in your particular organization, that is great!

But to argue that work location policies of employers should only depend on productivity, or your commute cost, or whether you will buy a sandwich at lunch is myopic naive view. It is exacerbated when you characterize the people making decisions as out of touch boomers who don't know what they are doing.

It isn't wholly unlike people saying they shouldn't pay taxes for services they don't use, or that changes to roadways that have a negative impact on their quality of life shouldn't happen. It is a public good to spread revenue around to ensure that cities (where the majority of our population, including the most vulnerable, live) remain viable.

Moreover, it is a financially prudent thing for corporations that get subsidies and incentives from municipalities to do what it takes to keep getting them. The less revenue your employer has, the more likely they are to need to cut staff or reduce comp and benefits.

We have seen the impacts of a reduction in corporate real estate values lead to negative effects on the financial system, and will eventually see it lead to decreased tax revenues that in turn lead to a lack of public welfare services.

THAT is why we are seeing these changes now. It is because all things are interconnected, and decisions are not being made based on whether or not you will buy a latte on the two days per week your employer's policy says you will come in.

I'm sorry, are you suggesting corporations / middle management are making coordinated decisions for the public good, to spread revenue around? LOL, get outta here.

There is not a coordinated effort, there is an assortment of differing incentives and priorities. If there were a coordinated effort for public policy reasons, then things like climate change, accessibility, and birthrate-boosting policy should factor in -- WFH is better for all three. But we're not having that conversation: instead we're continually having a conversation about commercial real estate and why allowing commercial landlords to lose money is Bad instead of the natural and arguably predictable outcome of decisions they made. Tiny violins etc.

I agree with you but feel you buried the lede here. WFH decreases carbon emissions, and our collapsing biosphere is infinitely more of an urgent and existential problem than collapsing commercial real estate.

THIS!!!

This is one of the ideological banners WFHers like to tout. Like they cared about the environment before the pandemic. Nope. It’s really all about personal lifestyle, working less, and saving more.

Sorry bitter betty that you’re a corporate drone. The younger generations are the future and with your attitude you’ll be the first to go.

News flash, millennials aren’t young anymore. The actual younger generation doesn’t have an issue with returning to the office,

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I’m going to RTO, I refuse to do anything after hours from home, either. If I’m not allowed to WFH, that means I’m not required to.

You do realize that this just hurts your performance review, right? The labor market is loosening and companies realize they can now just replace poor performers and malcontents.

Btw, Gen Z is dying to get some in office time so they can be properly trained and mentored.

It’s logically consistent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

What 22 year old can afford to live in a rental by themselves? And why would they?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

What 22 year old can afford to live in a rental by themselves? And why would they?

*meant in Boston

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Young employees (new grads) hate WFH.

No they don't. That's just something micromanaging boomers in worthless middle management positions say without any evidence to support their claims.

Younger workers have also never done commutes for 10-20 years yet and don't have kids. Let's hear their opinions when they get closer to 40 and have wasted thousands of hours of their lives sitting in traffic or taking public transportation just to get to work.

My 22 year old daughter moved to Boston by her office for her job. They promised RTO but boomers keep pushing it back. She plans on quitting next year if no RT0. How can she learn sitting in her tiny rental by herself?

On one hand, I understand but on the other, your daughter has opportunities to make her own hobbies and interests and chill. What is she not learning?

Dp, I have nieces who are recent college grads who are also sick of wfh and chomping at the bit to return to work. And each year, more of these kids graduate from college.