Our Current Situation - Not thrilled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I called Rice and they said one physics and one comp sci recommendation was perfect and if they required the other they would have put that in the instructions. Stop scaring people.

Let everyone know about the RD from Rice...either you or the PP will eat crow!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I called Rice and they said one physics and one comp sci recommendation was perfect and if they required the other they would have put that in the instructions. Stop scaring people.

Let everyone know about the RD from Rice...either you or the PP will eat crow!

Why would Rice or other schools hide the ball on something like this if it’s important to them? Is it like a secret menu or something?

[Anonymous]

Why would I eat crow? The person literally said "if we wanted it that way we would state it so as to not confuse people"

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

I read college applications for a large public university. This is all well and good, but if the student doesn't explain more about the process in the application, it can still read like a "kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle."

I am appalled that an Admission's office wouldn't know the time commitment and dedication it takes to earn Eagle Scout. I'm a woman with no scouts, no boy scouts and even I knew how hard it was to persevere for Eagle Scout just based on info from when I was growing up.

It's pretty disturbing any admission's officer would not know about Eagle Scouts.

While I don't disagree with you, the same could be said of kids that play sports (even if not at an elite level), other ECs, or even go to a lot of prep/academic enrichment. It shows hours spent and commitment. Why aren't they as important? Using just sports, I've read that schools don't care much about sports unless you are being recruited for the sport. Why wouldn't the same rule apply to scouts? What makes an Eagle Scout more valuable to, say a kid who played travel volleyball for 6+ years (and other sports between KG and MS)? Same level of effort, same commitment..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I still think he has a good shot at UT Austin and Rice, which would be my choices in that mix. Lots of other schools your kid hasn’t heard from yet and has strong chances at.

I know several highly qualified Stem oriented kids who were deferred at Purdue engineering this year (and one qualified but not nearly as Stem focused kid who was accepted to Purdue engineering this year - go figure).

so the CU is the only outlier making you nervous and I’d disregard it- I am sure it has zero to do with anything lacking in your kid’s app and relates to some internal priority you’ll never be able to figure out.

Sit tight, appreciate the current good acceptances, and keep hoping!

Disagree about UTexas at Austin if applying for CS. Almost zero chance for admission. Rice will be difficult as OP did not apply ED.

No shot at UT Austin for computer science. If was not direct admit for Boulder literally zero chance of UT and also would have already heard by now if answer was yes.

[Anonymous]

You are way too invested in this. I can't even be bothered to read all of that.

I did read the last part. My kid learned the first aid as a FFX County lifeguard, which he did for 4 yrs. Not panicking is his personality + first aid training, and there were a surprising number of incidents (not all water related).

Truly nobody cares or reads the personal interest section of a resume. Most people don't even include it because it's so irrelevant to jobs.

——/////

A quick note: this statement about resumes is absolutely dead wrong. If you are interviewing with a company or firm after previewing submitting a resume then you already have the academics and experience to fulfill whatever position they have open. The questions remaining revolve around what type of person you are, and will you be a good fit within the organization. That is the purpose of the personal part of the resume. The personal part of your resume gives me topics to discuss with you to make the decisions. I don’t care if you were the recording Secretary for the school business club or if you graduated 43rd in your class at OldStateU. What do you like to do? We can talk about that. Have kids? We will talk kids. Member of the Corvette club? We will talk cars. Played a sport? Let’s dig in to that. Don’t have interests outside of work? Can’t carry on a conversation. No thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Those are great stats. Your kid will get into one of the others they’re waiting on.

I agree! Your son sounds amazing, and he has accomplished so much. Cheers to you for being such a dedicated parent. An idea...you might want to briefly review your son's social media accounts with him. Maybe there is something there that is not communicating who he really is?
In the meantime, hope you and your son can hang in there with the whole college admissions process. Stay hopeful and don't feel too badly about the deferrals. He has a wonderful record, and I'm sure things will turn out well for you!

An article about coping with deferrals, rejections, etc. Worth a read: https://raisingamericans.substack.com/p/deferred-or-rejected-by-a-dream-school?sd=pf

[Anonymous]

https://giphy.com/gifs/jerseyshore-mtv-jersey-shore-7vAPwsFOVCEU2DRM9C

[Anonymous]

Can any state level policy maker explain why our states aren’t fighting over kids who want to major in computer science and got a 700+ on the math SAT? ... State policy makers should be bending over backwards to have vibrant and well-funded CS programs and fill them with as many kids as they can who can do the work

I saw your post and I believe we think the same. I have a daughter with a 700+Math SAT score. 3.8 unweighted GPA. Took AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP Physics C. I listened to years of BS about how our country wanted more STEM grads, more STEM education. More women in STEM! It's BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Can any state level policy maker explain why our states aren’t fighting over kids who want to major in computer science and got a 700+ on the math SAT? ... State policy makers should be bending over backwards to have vibrant and well-funded CS programs and fill them with as many kids as they can who can do the work

I saw your post and I believe we think the same. I have a daughter with a 700+Math SAT score. 3.8 unweighted GPA. Took AP Calc BC, AP Chem, AP Physics C. I listened to years of BS about how our country wanted more STEM grads, more STEM education. More women in STEM! It's BS.

That’s great, but no one says they are guaranteed admission to Ivies

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

I read college applications for a large public university. This is all well and good, but if the student doesn't explain more about the process in the application, it can still read like a "kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle."

I am appalled that an Admission's office wouldn't know the time commitment and dedication it takes to earn Eagle Scout. I'm a woman with no scouts, no boy scouts and even I knew how hard it was to persevere for Eagle Scout just based on info from when I was growing up.

It's pretty disturbing any admission's officer would not know about Eagle Scouts.

While I don't disagree with you, the same could be said of kids that play sports (even if not at an elite level), other ECs, or even go to a lot of prep/academic enrichment. It shows hours spent and commitment. Why aren't they as important? Using just sports, I've read that schools don't care much about sports unless you are being recruited for the sport. Why wouldn't the same rule apply to scouts? What makes an Eagle Scout more valuable to, say a kid who played travel volleyball for 6+ years (and other sports between KG and MS)? Same level of effort, same commitment..

I am guessing that many AOs know the success they have with Eagle Scouts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

I read college applications for a large public university. This is all well and good, but if the student doesn't explain more about the process in the application, it can still read like a "kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle."

Well, fortunately, as a $20 an hour reader, you don’t get to make the call. Your job is to do a first cull for GPA, test scores, legacy, Questbridge, URM, first generation and unique national awards. And approx class rank. Then you send the file up the command. May I suggest you read Wikipedia on Eagle Scouting to educate yourself ?

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.

One kid I know did some weeding and build a park bench. Roll out the red carpet to Harvard and Yale!

——-/——

Two of my kids are Eagle Scouts - now 24 and 21.

Scouting is a good kid thing that is fantastic through the middle school years in particular. If you raced, you could get through the requirements by 14. The vast majority are 16/17 when they finish if they keep going to try and reach the Eagle rank. You have to work through various levels over time, earn merit badges of certain numbers and types. Do leadership roles within the troop for at least specific time periods (6 months typically). Do a certain number of overnights camping, and more. The Eagle project itself is one part of getting to that rank. It is not about what is done. It is about the process of doing something like that. Projects can only benefit 501(c)(3)s, approved established charities, and government entities. Kids bounce ideas off an adult project coordinator within their troop. They typically explore 4 or 5 options and 2 or maybe 3 seriously. Kids talk to appropriate people about projects, develop cost estimates, calculate labor requirements, figure out approval processes. Projects must use group labor. The Scout has to write everything up in advance and get their plan approved by a review board (not part of the troop) in advance. Then the Scout must’ve proceed to plan and schedule the actual work. They need to raise money for supplies, create and coordinate a work schedule, track and account for money raised and things purchased, deal with and document changes. They also track all labor. Who worked and many hours. Process all volunteer time paperwork (for kids who get school credit), and then write up a final report. After the report is submitted (outside the troop) it is reviewed - usually a follow up question or two is asked just like a supervisor might - then it is approved.

For many kids the project is the last requirement needed to reach the Eagle rank, but for a good number there are still things to complete. You have until age 18.

So - let’s say a kid wants to install two seating benches and plantings around the flag pole outside City Hall as their Eagle project. Okay. How do they do that? The kid will work with their parents and the troop project coordinator to figure out the process. Step 1: Does the City want the project? Maybe they have other plans for the space. Maybe the work will be a pain to mow around. You have to figure out who in the city to talk too. You, the Scout, has to go talk to them and pitch the project. They may have to pitch the project to the Mayor or City Council. How do you get that done? You learn how to make a proposal. You learn how to present your proposal and practice so you are comfortable enough. You practice anticipating likely questions.

Now - originally - the thought may have been to buy two good benches from Lowe’s, but the City requires sturdier benches and they need to be affixed. You work with the grounds person to decide what gets installed, and you get all necessary approvals for that. Let’s say the plan was for $400 in cost to buy 2 benches, but the new plan costs $1500. How do you adapt your fund raising? Maybe go see the VFW leadership and the City beautification Board. You attend their meetings and get their approvals. And, you still have not put a shovel in the ground.

With the money you buy the benches and other materials. You have them delivered to a good location. You thought your home first, but can you get them to City Hall later? Can you use the Troop trailer? How do you get permission to do that? How do you get kids and adults to turn up at City Hall on the day and time? What do you fo if it rains? Will you provide lunch? Drinks? Did you budget for that? What about first aid coverage? Do you have the right tools and supplies? Have you ever used cement in a hole before? Did you practice? Can you explain the process to other scouts at the site? What other work is to be done - are you making garden beds too? What plantings have you planned and why those? How did you adapt the project when your team started digging and found that the current flag pole cement pad was laid over a cement sidewalk in one area that was just covered with 6inches of dirt and sod.

Afterwards, including clean up and meetings with City government folks to ensure they are satisfied, you do your final write up. It gets read and approved by you, the person at the City who oversaw the project, and your troop Eagle project coordinator. That report is then sent to be reviewed and approved by BSA.

Ta-dah Now you know a neighbor’s kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle.

——/

My kids have “Eagle Scout” on their resume currently in the Personal Interest part. It reads: Camping and hiking. (Eagle Scout).

The stuff they learned can be learned elsewhere of course. But, they learned it in Scouts. A couple years ago my youngest was working nights at an ice packing plant. 2 guys bagging ice and loading trucks to go out in the morning. His co-worker got his hand caught in a gear breaking 3 fingers. My kid used his first aid knowledge to stabilize the hand and arm, and control the bleeding. He shut down the plant and drove his co-worker to the ER. Didn’t panic.

Used stuff he learned in Scouts. And - both have been asked in interviews to prove they are Eagle Scouts. They carry a card in their wallet. They guys who asked then showed them their cards.

I read college applications for a large public university. This is all well and good, but if the student doesn't explain more about the process in the application, it can still read like a "kid who just stuck a couple benches and some flowers by a flag pole to get her Eagle."

Well, fortunately, as a $20 an hour reader, you don’t get to make the call. Your job is to do a first cull for GPA, test scores, legacy, Questbridge, URM, first generation and unique national awards. And approx class rank. Then you send the file up the command. May I suggest you read Wikipedia on Eagle Scouting to educate yourself ?

Yes, every single college that has readers has them do exactly the same thing with no deviation.

Seriously, you show your lack of knowledge when you make these broad statements as if they apply to every colleges.

And it's $25 per hour.

[Anonymous]

The arrogance and condescension of some posters is mind boggling. Not an ounce of grace.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You are way too invested in this. I can't even be bothered to read all of that.

I did read the last part. My kid learned the first aid as a FFX County lifeguard, which he did for 4 yrs. Not panicking is his personality + first aid training, and there were a surprising number of incidents (not all water related).

Truly nobody cares or reads the personal interest section of a resume. Most people don't even include it because it's so irrelevant to jobs.

——/////

A quick note: this statement about resumes is absolutely dead wrong. If you are interviewing with a company or firm after previewing submitting a resume then you already have the academics and experience to fulfill whatever position they have open. The questions remaining revolve around what type of person you are, and will you be a good fit within the organization. That is the purpose of the personal part of the resume. The personal part of your resume gives me topics to discuss with you to make the decisions. I don’t care if you were the recording Secretary for the school business club or if you graduated 43rd in your class at OldStateU. What do you like to do? We can talk about that. Have kids? We will talk kids. Member of the Corvette club? We will talk cars. Played a sport? Let’s dig in to that. Don’t have interests outside of work? Can’t carry on a conversation. No thanks.



Be careful asking about kids to avoid any potential parent discrimination issues.