New DCPS school on former Georgetown Day site will be a high school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has there ever been a rezoning/ change in feeder pattern in DCPS without a grandfather clause? For example, the folks in Crestwood were zoned out of Deal/Wilson but there was a long period of time before it was to be enforced. Same but shorter with Eaton being zoned out of Deal. What are the odds this MacArthur school feed from Hardy has a transition period where Hardy families can choose either?
I've emailed the Office of the chancellor school planning division and their answer was a non-answer (shocking I know).

Here's the thing: from 1968 to 2008 DCPS went from roughly 150,000 students to under 50,000. They actually lost students year-over-year every year for 40 straight years. In 2008, when the trend finally started reversing, DCPS had empty seats galore. Since 2008 DCPS has closed about two dozen schools, has added about 20,000 students -- and still about a third of the seats overall in DCPS are empty.

Meanwhile, in the late 1960's and early 1970's a series of lawsuits successfully challenged DCPS' student assignment policies and attendance boundaries as being in violation of Brown vs. Board of Education. The courts redrew some of the boundaries. Put those two factors together, and you find that DCPS has not done significant moving of boundaries in 50 years. They haven't wanted to, and they haven't needed to. So you really can't point to any precedent when it comes to opening new schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has there ever been a rezoning/ change in feeder pattern in DCPS without a grandfather clause? For example, the folks in Crestwood were zoned out of Deal/Wilson but there was a long period of time before it was to be enforced. Same but shorter with Eaton being zoned out of Deal. What are the odds this MacArthur school feed from Hardy has a transition period where Hardy families can choose either?
I've emailed the Office of the chancellor school planning division and their answer was a non-answer (shocking I know).

Here's the thing: from 1968 to 2008 DCPS went from roughly 150,000 students to under 50,000. They actually lost students year-over-year every year for 40 straight years. In 2008, when the trend finally started reversing, DCPS had empty seats galore. Since 2008 DCPS has closed about two dozen schools, has added about 20,000 students -- and still about a third of the seats overall in DCPS are empty.

Meanwhile, in the late 1960's and early 1970's a series of lawsuits successfully challenged DCPS' student assignment policies and attendance boundaries as being in violation of Brown vs. Board of Education. The courts redrew some of the boundaries. Put those two factors together, and you find that DCPS has not done significant moving of boundaries in 50 years. They haven't wanted to, and they haven't needed to. So you really can't point to any precedent when it comes to opening new schools.

I attended every meeting open to the public last year about this school and in every single PowerPoint they addressed grandfathering and assured everyone there would be some level of grandfathering. They need to be held to their word. For the first three years of the new school, hardy families should be given the option of choosing between the new school or Wilson. That’s what I will argue for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

More like Chevy Chase/Bethesda in terms of what? Test scores? Property values? Acreage of lots? Percentage of UMC families, and white families in DCPS elementary schools? Down here in the Brent District our by-right school enrolls a lower percentage of minority students and poor kids than a number of schools in Upper NW, e.g. Hearst, Eaton and Stoddert.

PS. Our real estate is just as expensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

More like Chevy Chase/Bethesda in terms of what? Test scores? Property values? Acreage of lots? Percentage of UMC families, and white families in DCPS elementary schools? Down here in the Brent District our by-right school enrolls a lower percentage of minority students and poor kids than a number of schools in Upper NW, e.g. Hearst, Eaton and Stoddert.

PS. Our real estate is just as expensive.

It is culturally, socially, geographically very similar. The neighborhoods almost blend into each other.
You could move a few streets over and you would be in Maryland

[Anonymous]

we all blend in like this. Chevy Chase is like Chevy Chase, Takoma is like Takoma Park, Wards 7 and 8 are like Ward 9.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

Im an EOTP parent so I guess I fit your stereotype, but I am of the opinion that my kids don't need to be surrounded by UMC kids in order to do well. You are more likely to find parents who trust their kids to do well EOTP, rather than feeling anxiety about their kids outcomes and alleviating that anxiety by moving WOTP.

I'm also a person who had the experience of going to two different high schools: a working class "bad" high school for two years, and a uniformly UMC high school for two years. The gifted kids who "got out" of the first school/town ended up being way more remarkable -- professors, artists, etc. More people from the UMB school ended up being profesional class: dentists, accountants, lawyers, etc, but there are far fewer people going creative, interesting things. So I actually think a gifted kid is better off in a diverse environment and finding their own path, rather than following along a professional UMC path.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

Im an EOTP parent so I guess I fit your stereotype, but I am of the opinion that my kids don't need to be surrounded by UMC kids in order to do well. You are more likely to find parents who trust their kids to do well EOTP, rather than feeling anxiety about their kids outcomes and alleviating that anxiety by moving WOTP.

I'm also a person who had the experience of going to two different high schools: a working class "bad" high school for two years, and a uniformly UMC high school for two years. The gifted kids who "got out" of the first school/town ended up being way more remarkable -- professors, artists, etc. More people from the UMB school ended up being profesional class: dentists, accountants, lawyers, etc, but there are far fewer people going creative, interesting things. So I actually think a gifted kid is better off in a diverse environment and finding their own path, rather than following along a professional UMC path.

Super interesting perspective.

- spouse of an unhappy lawyer

[Anonymous]

yeah, I hope this for my kids. I am not enamored of the meritocratic hamster wheel, with parents standing in for the kids when they're too young to understand it, supporting them when their actions start to count, then coaching them into the right middle school, right high school, right college, right job, and all of that. Middle school with advanced math, right, the high school that'll set them up for AP or IB, college with an acceptance rate under 10 percent, first job that puts them on the path to paying a mortgage or support through an advanced degree that lands them in some specific elite.

I thought of this as important once. I really don't any more. I think my approach to schooling for my kids is somewhat more open to them doing anything as long as they show application. No need for advanced coursework, extracurriculars the kid doesn't want to do, sports, volunteering, etc. So I see EOTP schools as just fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, how is it possible they could have this school opened for the 23/24 school year? They haven’t even bid it out yet let alone broken ground and the facility is much larger than the elementary school renovations that have all taken almost 2 years up to the day to renovate.

While they may not have to "break ground" as it were, I am a little confused as to the SY23/24 timeline quoted in the communication sent out by DC Central office. This is only a line item in the budget which needs to be approved by Council. And the new fiscal year is not until July (I'm not sure but I think that is the earliest). So bids for planning will go out in the summer and finalized late Fall. Given that the site was originally for K-8 for 600 kids (and without a cafeteria etc.) I would imagine that it will take longer than 9 months to finish up all the work, given that they need to put in labs etc. Eaton renovation took over 2 years but granted it did involve a lot of foundation work for the new section.

Then there is the question of sequencing -- if the current crop of 7th Graders at Hardy are the first to attend this school, that only makes about 120 kids for the 9th grade class. Are they planning to fill the rest by lottery + at risk preference? Are there even that many kids in the system who would want to attend? What about class offerings? If the majority are at risk in grades 10-12, will they have sufficient mass to offer AP/honors classes right off the bat? While this may sound politically incorrect, am I accurate in assuming that many of these possible 10-12th graders are coming from other schools in the system that do not currently have extensive AP offerings (or honors?)

If not, then what is the draw of this school?

I'm wondering if they plan to add one additional class each year?

So 23-24 has only the freshman class. 24-25 has freshman and sophomore classes. Etc.

In this scenario, they do not need the entire campus finished by 22-23. They can work on renovations and expansion each year, adding more capacity for the next year's additional class. Finally, by year 26-27 the school has all four grades filled.

This is how most new schools operate. It wouldn't make sense to fill all grades the same year.

So this high school would be totally inferior to Wilson with regard to athletics opportunities? How can they offer funded, competitive programs when you only have freshmen trying out? And then only freshman and sophomores the next year. And how does ramping up the student body like that allow for all the course offerings, including honors and AP? This plan seems like it might roll out as a bait and switch, at least for advanced and athletic kids. For the first 2 or 3 years, Hardy kids should be given the option to choose to go to Wilson or the new HS (like they did with Eaton with Hardy and Deal). I attended many of the meetings about the Gtown day and Old Hardy properties and every presentation emphasized that there WOULD be grandfathering. The
Y better stick to that promise.

Under DCPS rules, if you attend a school that doesn't offer a sport you're interested in you're eligible to play for a school that does.

Here's a list of all DCPS high schools and their enrollment:

River Terrace Education Campus 132
Luke C. Moore High School 208
Bard High School Early College DC (Bard DC) 265
Phelps Architecture, Construction and Engineering High School 276
Anacostia High School 326
H.D. Woodson High School 434
Ballou STAY High School 523
Benjamin Banneker High School 549
Coolidge High School 561
Duke Ellington School of the Arts 591
School Without Walls High School 600
Cardozo Education Campus 621
Roosevelt STAY High School 634
Ballou High School 664
Dunbar High School 666
McKinley Technology High School 696
Eastern High School 735
Roosevelt High School 752
Columbia Heights Education Campus 1477
Woodrow Wilson High School 1951

At full capacity this school will be the third largest in the city. At half capacity it will be firmly in the middle. Most DC high schools can't offer a full menu of sports.

These enrollments seem so anemic. How can they possibly justify another high school when they ought to be consolidated. The only possible reason is obvious racism among DC residents. If Wilson is overcrowded there is surely space elsewhere.

Do you know DCPS well? Parents don’t send their kids to Cardozo, not because it’s full of Black kids, but because it’s a bad school where less than 60% of kids graduate.

It wouldn’t be if more well-resourced families sent their kids there.

There are not enough well resourced families to spread out successfully across all the schools. Many such families have already bailed DCPS for private schools or for MCPS, ACPS or FCPS. The reminder is not enough to move the needle if they are divided between Coolidge, Dunbar, Cardozo, CHEC, etc.
DCPS could attract such families to Eastern, Cardozo, etc., with Honors classes, etc., but DCPS has decided it will not do that. So here we are -

This. And it bears repeating. The problem in DCPS is not that the well-resourced kids are all concentrated in a few schools. The problem is there just aren't enough well-resourced kids to go around. Roughly 75% of the kids in DCPS come from economically disadvantaged families.

And trying to spread those 25% kids who aren't economically disadvantaged across more schools will only result in a chunk of those 25% leaving the public school system entirely. DCPS must accept that no parent will sacrifice their child's one shot at childhood and education. Never.

Are you implying that parents EOTR are comfortable ''sacrificing'' their kids and that they don't care about their kids' education?

Having lived both EOTR and WOTR I think it is safe to say that you hear the tropes "upper middle class kids will be fine wherever they go," or "test scores reflect demographics" more often from parents EOTR. WOTR parents, in general, seem more concerned about the actual quality of the education their children are receiving, and expect their kids to be performing at a level that is better than grade-level or "fine." EOTP parents generally seem to care more about diversity, and the benefits that brings. Just an observation.

But to the PP's point, I agree that spreading out the "top" kids, without creating honors programs where they can be educated separately from kids performing below grade level, is going to drive a fair number of UMC families away. I think that even if academics were equal, a large number of families would leave simply because they could not go to a walkable school. MOCO with its walkable mostly high-performing schools suddenly becomes much more attractive. Let's face it, NWDC is much more like Chevy Chase/Bethesda than it is to other parts of DC.

Im an EOTP parent so I guess I fit your stereotype, but I am of the opinion that my kids don't need to be surrounded by UMC kids in order to do well. You are more likely to find parents who trust their kids to do well EOTP, rather than feeling anxiety about their kids outcomes and alleviating that anxiety by moving WOTP.

I'm also a person who had the experience of going to two different high schools: a working class "bad" high school for two years, and a uniformly UMC high school for two years. The gifted kids who "got out" of the first school/town ended up being way more remarkable -- professors, artists, etc. More people from the UMB school ended up being profesional class: dentists, accountants, lawyers, etc, but there are far fewer people going creative, interesting things. So I actually think a gifted kid is better off in a diverse environment and finding their own path, rather than following along a professional UMC path.

How old are your kids?

[Anonymous]

ooh, ooh, I'm taking bets!

The "how old are your kids?" mom is gonna say "wait til your middle schooler gets jumped at Brookland and you'll wish you sent them to Deal! You'll learn there is NO DIFFERENTIATION AND NOW YOUR KID IS STUCK GOING TO BROWN!!! BROWWWWNNNNNN!!!!!!!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yeah, I hope this for my kids. I am not enamored of the meritocratic hamster wheel, with parents standing in for the kids when they're too young to understand it, supporting them when their actions start to count, then coaching them into the right middle school, right high school, right college, right job, and all of that. Middle school with advanced math, right, the high school that'll set them up for AP or IB, college with an acceptance rate under 10 percent, first job that puts them on the path to paying a mortgage or support through an advanced degree that lands them in some specific elite.

I thought of this as important once. I really don't any more. I think my approach to schooling for my kids is somewhat more open to them doing anything as long as they show application. No need for advanced coursework, extracurriculars the kid doesn't want to do, sports, volunteering, etc. So I see EOTP schools as just fine.

One problem is thought that they will follow mom and dad's example regardless of where you send them.

[Anonymous]

Huge "factory" high schools are a product of the 1950s. Yes, they can still be excellent, but also present challenges. Some of these underenrolled high schools are sitting on massively valuable tracts of land. Maybe DC should consider selling some of this land to fund creation of smaller high schools in more neighborhoods? I for one would love to see more HS options in Ward 5.

[Anonymous]

The takeaway from all of this, for parents of younger kids, should be that everyone's definition of "good" school is going to be different. Don't assume that just because your friend/colleague is from a similar demographic group, that their values are the same. Don't just ask other parents if they like their school or they consider it a "good" school. Ask why. If advanced academics are important to you, ask about that. If diversity is important, ask about that. Special needs, social-emotional learning, etc. Very few schools are going to offer it all.