do we have the right to know more in public school?

[Anonymous]

I am writing for a parent since his English is limited. several months ago, he filed a Pupil placement appliction for his child. and got rejected the second day cited a very obvious reason. he didnt mind since he just wanted to try for his kid. but then recently he was told by several parents that the school has granted several applications. so he asked the principal of the school to see why his case got rejected and others got granted. the principal refused to give the details and told him to ask FCPS. so his question is -- as a parent of public school does he have the right to know more? and where in FCPS should he ask for the information? it has nothing to do with the names of the students who got granted or why he got rejected. he wants to know what the reasons that made the other applications got granted if indeed there are cases got granted. thanks for your help!!!

[Anonymous]

What was his reason for requesting the pupil placement in the first place?

[Anonymous]

He can file a FOIA request with FCPS. They will often provide information that isn't available on the public FCPS website. But if the number of students involved is small, there are exceptions to disclosure that are designed to protect the privacy of individual students and he is unlikely to get an answer. So, for example, a request to provide the total number of pupil placement requests in the county on a particular ground that were approved and rejected may get an answer, but FCPS may refuse to respond to a request that relates to a specifc school and a small number of students, and it would be within its rights under VA law to do so.

[Anonymous]

When I did pupil placement in FCPS, administrator friends of mine told me that Gatehouse tends to approve/disapprove based on principal recommendations. Of course no recommendation is required or even referenced on the form.

[Anonymous]

Is it possible the other kids had siblings in the school? Child care issues?

Hate to ask, but does this man's child have special needs that the school may not be able to accommodate?

[Anonymous]

Why was the friend trying to place his child in the school in the first place. You cannot "shop around" for schools. You have to have a legitimate reason to do a student transfer (this is the correct term, not pupil placement). For elementary, the childcare hardship is the main reason. Did your friend truly have a childcare hardship, meaning he couldn't find ANY childcare in his base school area?

There are many reasons that a principal can deny a student transfer. The most obvious one is that the grade level is at capacity. It's possible that the grade level where your friend applied is already at capacity, while other grade levels are not.

[Anonymous]

It's key that you say he asked why his application was rejected "and others were granted." He needs to be asking FCPS why his was rejected, but he should never ask why others WERE granted; no school system is ever going to give out information about one child or family to another. They may talk to him about his child's own case but not about any reasons why others were granted. The school offices will get very resistant if he asks why other children were granted placement.

When the principal told him to ask FCPS, it would have helped if the dad, then and there, had countered with "OK, please write down the name of the office I need to call, the phone number and the contact person for questions about placements -- I'll wait right here." But that's hindsight, and if he has limited communcations skills in English he just might not have thought of that on the spot. But that's what I'd do now -- ask the school's office staff just that. He's only asking for contact information, not for specifics of his own case or anyone else's, so if they are balky, he may have to reiterate that he is simply asking for the correct office and number at FCPS, and the principal referred him to FCPS.

Some folks posting are questioning why he wanted his child placed, but the question seems to me to be about what he should do next to ask his question, and where he can get information. Why he wanted his child placed is between him, his family and the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why was the friend trying to place his child in the school in the first place. You cannot "shop around" for schools. You have to have a legitimate reason to do a student transfer (this is the correct term, not pupil placement). For elementary, the childcare hardship is the main reason. Did your friend truly have a childcare hardship, meaning he couldn't find ANY childcare in his base school area?

There are many reasons that a principal can deny a student transfer. The most obvious one is that the grade level is at capacity. It's possible that the grade level where your friend applied is already at capacity, while other grade levels are not.

Well then why didn't the principal just say "we're at capacity for that grade level"?
"go ask FCPS" would certainly get me thinking he/she is hiding something. What's the big secret?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why he wanted his child placed is between him, his family and the school.

Yes, but the reason other people wanted their children placed is between them, their families and the school and that seems to be the question he wants to ask no matter whom he asks. Highly doubtful anyone will give him specifics about anyone else's situation.

[Anonymous]

OP here -- the denied reason is overcapacity. his kid has no special need and is doing well at school. then the overcapacity issue asked about 100 kids moved to anothe school. he had problem with it until his child wanted to stay and he was informed that he could at least try Pupil Placement (PP) for his child. he got rejected the next day citing overcapacity as the reason. he then forgot about it and got ready for the transfer to other school.

until recently, he told me that other parents told him that the school invited other kids to stay and other PP got approved and etc. he would not believe any of those because every case should have overcapacity issue and why he got rejecte and others did not. so he wrote to the principal asking about the detail numbers and he was told that 'it is case by case scenario'. my friend actually has very strong case but certainly he was not favored by the principal. but the question he has is -- could personal/school favors be used as the denial/acceptance criteria? he is trained in science and academics, so he wants to know if there are some unspoken critria are used in the process. if yes, then it would not be fair for his kid or other kids.

thank you all for all the great inputs and insights. this is why I like this forum.

[Anonymous]

it should be --
OP here -- the denied reason is overcapacity. his kid has no special need and is doing well at school. then the overcapacity issue asked about 100 kids moved to anothe school. he had NO problem with it until his child wanted to stay and he was informed that he could at least try Pupil Placement (PP) for his child. he got rejected the next day citing overcapacity as the reason. he then forgot about it and got ready for the transfer to other school.

until recently, he told me that other parents told him that the school invited other kids to stay and other PP got approved and etc. he would not believe any of those because every case should have overcapacity issue and why he got rejecte and others did not. so he wrote to the principal asking about the detail numbers and he was told that 'it is case by case scenario'. my friend actually has very strong case but certainly he was not favored by the principal. but the question he has is -- could personal/school favors be used as the denial/acceptance criteria? he is trained in science and academics, so he wants to know if there are some unspoken critria are used in the process. if yes, then it would not be fair for his kid or other kids.

thank you all for all the great inputs and insights. this is why I like this forum.

[Anonymous]

So the child was already pupil-placed at his non-assigned school, the school became crowded, and the child was not allowed to stay at the school?

[Anonymous]

I'm guessing you're talking about Haycock. I know that some kids in a specialized math group, and others with siblings were recommended to try transferring back in. It is likely that other kids who were granted a transfer fit into one of those categories.

Just "wanting to stay" is unlikely to be granted, or I would guess about 90 of those 100 kids would have stayed.

If this is Haycock, the new placement will be much better than staying. Haycock will remain grossly overcrowded, with ridiculous class sizes, limited access to specials and the library, and likely very limited recess for 2 years during the renovation. I think they would all like to stay, but they just don't know how lucky they are yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:it should be --
OP here -- the denied reason is overcapacity. his kid has no special need and is doing well at school. then the overcapacity issue asked about 100 kids moved to anothe school. he had NO problem with it until his child wanted to stay and he was informed that he could at least try Pupil Placement (PP) for his child. he got rejected the next day citing overcapacity as the reason. he then forgot about it and got ready for the transfer to other school.

until recently, he told me that other parents told him that the school invited other kids to stay and other PP got approved and etc. he would not believe any of those because every case should have overcapacity issue and why he got rejecte and others did not. so he wrote to the principal asking about the detail numbers and he was told that 'it is case by case scenario'. my friend actually has very strong case but certainly he was not favored by the principal. but the question he has is -- could personal/school favors be used as the denial/acceptance criteria? he is trained in science and academics, so he wants to know if there are some unspoken critria are used in the process. if yes, then it would not be fair for his kid or other kids.

thank you all for all the great inputs and insights. this is why I like this forum.

Yes. The principal makes a recommendation to accept or deny and then FCPS has the final decision, so this is a situation where being part of the "in crowd" can come into play.

[Anonymous]

If the child has been attending the school and has been chronically tardy, the principal may have rejected the student transfer based on that. Transportation is not provided for student transfers, and the principal may feel that would be an even bigger barrier to getting the child to school on time.