What is Middle Class....Really?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do people have friend groups that are so socioeconomically diverse? Pretty much everyone I'm in touch with from high school or college is now a JD/MBA/MD or working in finance or tech.

It's not like I tried to hang out only with highly paid professionals, I just don't have any friends who aren't (except for some who are now finishing up PHDs, but that's different).

Don't you have friends from high school or even middle school? I always find it odd when people in D.C. Only have friends that they meet through work. It's like friendships are paper thin.

Yes. Of my best high school friends, one is a lawyer, one a doctor, one works in tech, and one is a veterinarian. We were all in honors classes together and didn't really hang out with the kids who ended up doing random jobs after college.

But according to these jokers, you are a snob unless you have one janitor friend living in Section 8 housing. Most people do hang out with others in the same socioeconomic class. I bet these same people wouldn't want their own kids being tight with the future garbage men or house cleaners in school...unless they are so committed to diversity and tolerance they sacrifice their own kids' wellbeing. The bubble starts right from school.

[Anonymous]

P.S. OP again. I know I'm veering off topic, but my mention of the Greece cruise brought up memories. Another nice one was a Mediterranean one - Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Nice, Rome....it even "dipped south" and included northern African. That was a wonderful trip, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^

Um yeah, whatever.

You are the OP, right? This has been another 20 pages of you trying to convince people that your 100k/year is upper middle class.

I'm the OP, and nope.....that wasn't me. Sorry!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do people have friend groups that are so socioeconomically diverse? Pretty much everyone I'm in touch with from high school or college is now a JD/MBA/MD or working in finance or tech.

It's not like I tried to hang out only with highly paid professionals, I just don't have any friends who aren't (except for some who are now finishing up PHDs, but that's different).

Don't you have friends from high school or even middle school? I always find it odd when people in D.C. Only have friends that they meet through work. It's like friendships are paper thin.

Yes. Of my best high school friends, one is a lawyer, one a doctor, one works in tech, and one is a veterinarian. We were all in honors classes together and didn't really hang out with the kids who ended up doing random jobs after college.

But according to these jokers, you are a snob unless you have one janitor friend living in Section 8 housing. Most people do hang out with others in the same socioeconomic class. I bet these same people wouldn't want their own kids being tight with the future garbage men or house cleaners in school...unless they are so committed to diversity and tolerance they sacrifice their own kids' wellbeing. The bubble starts right from school.

There's quite a difference between a janitor in section 8 housing and a professional earning around $100k. We have people here saying they earn $200k and consider those who only earn $100k as someone who has screwed up and is someone they wouldn't hang around with. So are you saying that a lawyer would not consider someone who is a microbiologist, earning $103,000 and working for a private research lab on bio-warfare threats, is not "good enough" in the lawyer's eyes to be friends with?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's quite a difference between a janitor in section 8 housing and a professional earning around $100k. We have people here saying they earn $200k and consider those who only earn $100k as someone who has screwed up and is someone they wouldn't hang around with. So are you saying that a lawyer would not consider someone who is a microbiologist, earning $103,000 and working for a private research lab on bio-warfare threats, is not "good enough" in the lawyer's eyes to be friends with?

A $100k microbiologist and a $100k janitor are indeed different social classes. Please read the various posts explaining how status isn't directly tied to income. Take the bubble quiz.

I'm sorry, but the different classes are unlikely to mix as adults and the separation is likely to start in elementary. That's reality.

These types of arguments explain why some support mixed income housing, tuition discounting, busing between school districts, and so on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:P.S. OP again. I know I'm veering off topic, but my mention of the Greece cruise brought up memories. Another nice one was a Mediterranean one - Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Nice, Rome....it even "dipped south" and included northern African. That was a wonderful trip, too.

Cruises are typically filled with the middle class looking to experience an upper middle class lifestyle. That's how cruises are marketed.

You might get an upper middle class clientele if the cruise is advertised through an alumni group with lectures from various experts.

In any case, a cruise can be wonderful, whatever the class of the clientele.

This is similar to flying. The wealthy use fractional ownership instead of flying commercial. The airlines fill business class with middle class and upper middle class professionals flying a lot for business. They advertise an upper class experience. The average person doesn't get to fly ip front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:P.S. OP again. I know I'm veering off topic, but my mention of the Greece cruise brought up memories. Another nice one was a Mediterranean one - Monte Carlo, Barcelona, Nice, Rome....it even "dipped south" and included northern African. That was a wonderful trip, too.

Cruises are typically filled with the middle class looking to experience an upper middle class lifestyle. That's how cruises are marketed.

You might get an upper middle class clientele if the cruise is advertised through an alumni group with lectures from various experts.

In any case, a cruise can be wonderful, whatever the class of the clientele.

This is similar to flying. The wealthy use fractional ownership instead of flying commercial. The airlines fill business class with middle class and upper middle class professionals flying a lot for business. They advertise an upper class experience. The average person doesn't get to fly ip front.

OP here. Yes, I agree that the mainstream cruises aim to appeal to middle-class clientele seeking what they feel is an "upper-middle class" experience, and the cruise lines do an excellent job of positioning it that way. The market has actually changed a lot, though, over the years. My initial cruises were with my grandmother and my parents (we're talking nearly 40 years ago when I was young), and they truly were accessible primarily to the UMC. Later, though, they moved downmarket (two can go on a cruise for the price of a week at the beach!), and the clientele is much broader. Still can be a lovely experience.

I agree with what you say about the alumni group cruises. That is along the lines of what I meant by a "destination" cruise. They are more geared to the history and culture of the various ports - as opposed to a cruise ship "experience" - and have experts lecturing on each port before arrival. (And no....not on where to shop!)

Also (continuing, since I seem to be conversing with someone who isn't intent on putting me down as a failure for earning $100k!!), have you ever tried the river cruises, like Viking? They don't have all the activity of the mainstream cruises, but the itineraries and tours are fantastic. (So is the food, if you're into that.)

[Anonymous]

Crystal is by far the best I've been on. Everyone looks like they're halfway between the nursing home and the coffin though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also (continuing, since I seem to be conversing with someone who isn't intent on putting me down as a failure for earning $100k!!), have you ever tried the river cruises, like Viking? They don't have all the activity of the mainstream cruises, but the itineraries and tours are fantastic. (So is the food, if you're into that.)

I haven't done cruises myself. My parents went on a river cruise and enjoyed it. Their favorite cruise was a Mediterranean one like you mentioned earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.Announcing that $12/hr is working class is pretty out of touch with the working class. That is what, give or take 26k a year? A hardworking working class person can easily make 100k a year in DC. As they should.

Absolutely.

We pay our babysitter $12/hr. We pay our plumber $75/hr.

If the OP thinks she's upper middle class, she should report on how much household help she has.

NP. I earn just a little more than $100K and I have a house cleaner and a lawn guy. Here, in DC. I have half a year's salary in savings, I save the max for retirement both 401K and a Roth, I take international vacations at least once a year, sometimes more depending. I don't care anything about what "class" I am in but to suggest that people can't live comfortably in this area on $100K is what is out of touch, which is what OP seems to be trying to say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:.Announcing that $12/hr is working class is pretty out of touch with the working class. That is what, give or take 26k a year? A hardworking working class person can easily make 100k a year in DC. As they should.

Absolutely.

We pay our babysitter $12/hr. We pay our plumber $75/hr.

If the OP thinks she's upper middle class, she should report on how much household help she has.

NP. I earn just a little more than $100K and I have a house cleaner and a lawn guy. Here, in DC. I have half a year's salary in savings, I save the max for retirement both 401K and a Roth, I take international vacations at least once a year, sometimes more depending. I don't care anything about what "class" I am in but to suggest that people can't live comfortably in this area on $100K is what is out of touch, which is what OP seems to be trying to say.

I'm the OP. And thank you for the above. It sounds like we live similar lifestyles - all on slightly more than $100k. For some reason, I have a nemesis trying to convince me that I am actually below average (she has even said I almost qualify for welfare!), and I think what is bothering me is why a person would continually try to convince someone she's done poorly career-wise. What joy is there in putting someone down like that?

So, to wrap up, on $100k (I am just slightly over, as you indicated you are as well), we both have maid service and a lawn guy, both contribute the max to IRAs, both enjoy international cruises, and both live very comfortably. Here in the DC area. Imagine!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Crystal is by far the best I've been on. Everyone looks like they're halfway between the nursing home and the coffin though.

OP again. Yes, I've done Crystal as well, and hands down my favorite line. Beautiful autumn cruise from NY to Canada, with the foliage at its peak. True what you say about age skewing older, but where else can someone in her 5os feel like a young chickadee?!

[Anonymous]

So the conclusion here is eveyrhjngs relayyve. Some people seem quite happy on 100k, others don't.

For my part, since that's less than 50% of my current salary if I were making that 20 years down the road in my 50s I would not be thrilled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So the conclusion here is eveyrhjngs relayyve. Some people seem quite happy on 100k, others don't.

For my part, since that's less than 50% of my current salary if I were making that 20 years down the road in my 50s I would not be thrilled.

+1. I really don't know why OP is twisting herself into knots trying to get us to admit we're out of touch and she is umc. I am 32 and our HHI is close to 7 figures now, so yeah, OP's salary, to me, is low, especially for someone in their 50's. That's my opinion but why do you care OP? Sounds like you have a good life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do people have friend groups that are so socioeconomically diverse? Pretty much everyone I'm in touch with from high school or college is now a JD/MBA/MD or working in finance or tech.

It's not like I tried to hang out only with highly paid professionals, I just don't have any friends who aren't (except for some who are now finishing up PHDs, but that's different).

Don't you have friends from high school or even middle school? I always find it odd when people in D.C. Only have friends that they meet through work. It's like friendships are paper thin.

Yes. Of my best high school friends, one is a lawyer, one a doctor, one works in tech, and one is a veterinarian. We were all in honors classes together and didn't really hang out with the kids who ended up doing random jobs after college.

But according to these jokers, you are a snob unless you have one janitor friend living in Section 8 housing. Most people do hang out with others in the same socioeconomic class. I bet these same people wouldn't want their own kids being tight with the future garbage men or house cleaners in school...unless they are so committed to diversity and tolerance they sacrifice their own kids' wellbeing. The bubble starts right from school.

You probably grew up in a segregated area or went to fancy secondary schools. I'm a lawyer. My best friend, from middle school, is a secretary. We still get along now.