Why believe in god?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

not either PP . . .

But how do theologians and thinkers show evidence of god?

It's one thing to develop a theory based on reality - Marx and his Manifesto, for example - but quite another to prove there's a god by studying ancient texts.

- Again, what evidence is there of Jesus OUTSIDE of the bible? (Even if there was a Jesus, there are no other reports of his mystical ways.)
- Examine WHY cultures moves from polytheism to monotheism. It's all about the power and control one can wield through ONE god. The lesser gods, each controlling one aspect, were combined into one larger god. Greeks, Romans, Jews (early on) - all polytheistic

What's most amusing is our fascination with Greek and Roman mythology. Allusions to these gods and goddesses have been placed in many great texts across the ages. We call them myths but fail to recognize that from these myths sprang the idea of one god.

Zeus and his Roman counterpart, Jupiter, ruled over the gods/goddesses and humans. Hell, Zeus is even mentioned in the bible!

Acts 14:8-13New International Version (NIV)

In Lystra and Derbe
8 In Lystra there sat a man who was lame. He had been that way from birth and had never walked. 9 He listened to Paul as he was speaking. Paul looked directly at him, saw that he had faith to be healed 10 and called out, “Stand up on your feet!” At that, the man jumped up and began to walk.

11 When the crowd saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have come down to us in human form!” 12 Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul they called Hermes because he was the chief speaker. 13 The priest of Zeus, whose temple was just outside the city, brought bulls and wreaths to the city gates because he and the crowd wanted to offer sacrifices to them.

So some non-Christians called on their own gods, Zeus and Hermes. Shocker!

You also neglected to quote the passage that follows immediately after (Acts 14:14-18New International Version (NIV):

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15“Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:CS Lewis was an extremely intelligent man.

So was Ayn Rand, Anton Chekhov, Asimov, James Baldwin - all atheists.

your point is?

Any Rand was NOT all that bright, and she was a terrible writer. Sorry.

And that comment helps support your side?

You can't come up with a better argument?

John Rogers
the one who wrote a cartoon series called the Jackie Chan Adventures?
quite an impressive body of work . . .

There are lots of published John Rogers, but whichever one this is, Jackie Chan is hardly more cartoonish than Ayn Rand.

[Anonymous]

same person
Any simple search can tell you that.

http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/
his blog

I hardly find a comic book writer to be at the same level as Rand. Regardless of what you think of Rand's philosophy, she is still an author of great renown.

There are lots of published John Rogers, but whichever one this is, Jackie Chan is hardly more cartoonish than Ayn Rand.

[Anonymous]

You also neglected to quote the passage that follows immediately after (Acts 14:14-18New International Version (NIV):

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15“Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

This only shows movement from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society, which I mentioned above. I believe there were over 600 gods/goddesses in Greek mythology (including, of course, the lesser gods). How complex! Why bother with so many when you can have just one who encompasses all of the traits of the 600+?

Do some research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You also neglected to quote the passage that follows immediately after (Acts 14:14-18New International Version (NIV):

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15“Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

This only shows movement from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society, which I mentioned above. I believe there were over 600 gods/goddesses in Greek mythology (including, of course, the lesser gods). How complex! Why bother with so many when you can have just one who encompasses all of the traits of the 600+?

Do some research.

How many times have you (and possibly another poster) tried to mention Zeus, Horus. Mithras et al. in the same breath as December 25th and the gospels in general? You've been thoroughly debunked, especially wrt the December 25th point because that wasn't even a god's birthdate. Now you've moved on to arguing that a passage where Paul is trying to turn people AWAY from Zeus (the part you forgot to include in your quote) actually means that God = Zeus?

Whatever. Are you really that lazy a thinker?

Do some critical thinking before you post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:same person
Any simple search can tell you that.

http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/
his blog

I hardly find a comic book writer to be at the same level as Rand. Regardless of what you think of Rand's philosophy, she is still an author of great renown.

There are lots of published John Rogers, but whichever one this is, Jackie Chan is hardly more cartoonish than Ayn Rand.

Any Rand is a terrible writer. Really. I forced myself through Atlas Shrugged because I figured I should read thie thing. I couldn't finish The Fountainhead, though. Cardboard characters and toe-curlingly obviously symbolism. (Blue light, OMG! Steel, OMG! Does anybody but me get why she repeats these subtle symbols on.every.single.page? I must be among the few who really "gets" it!!!)

Utter pap, OMG.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God gave humans 'good dreams'

" I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions ..." See more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan4.html

About why I believe in God? Because I believe - in the bones of my bones- in absolute Good and Evil (not socially constructed) and without a God is hard (impossible) to justify that.

Why Christianity? Because it is the only religion I know of that at least claims that God came down to suffer with us.

About evil& suffering-the only really big argument agaist God IMO- if God is big enough to be mad at ( for not stopping evil), he is also big enough to have some reason for it. It helps that, as stated above, according to Christianity, He came down to take a share of it, so it's not like he was all talk.

And if we don't appreciate it, he sends us to burn in hell for ETERNITY

I subscribe to the idea that we are all going to be with God, if we want to. Some will prefer Hell to God. Read 'The Great Divorce' to see what I mean.

Oh right -- we should read a whole book to understand your great wisdom

It's very very short book! And yes, it is fiction- so what? (for the other poster who complains about that). There is truth in fiction books.

Also, I told you in brief what I mean: most theologians dont have a fire and brimstone view of hell. It is most like a choice that turns into an addition: God is like getting clean to an alcoholic, first you dont want to, then you cant. In this view, God just lets you go to hell bc thats where you want to be.

It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place

That was in reply to a poster whi complained about the Christian God sending people to hell. It mattered enough to that poster, since he/she made an issue of it. If you don't care for it, no problem at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:God gave humans 'good dreams'

" I call good dreams: I mean those queer stories scattered all through the heathen religions ..." See more here: http://home.earthlink.net/~mysticalrose/pagan4.html

About why I believe in God? Because I believe - in the bones of my bones- in absolute Good and Evil (not socially constructed) and without a God is hard (impossible) to justify that.

Why Christianity? Because it is the only religion I know of that at least claims that God came down to suffer with us.

About evil& suffering-the only really big argument agaist God IMO- if God is big enough to be mad at ( for not stopping evil), he is also big enough to have some reason for it. It helps that, as stated above, according to Christianity, He came down to take a share of it, so it's not like he was all talk.

And if we don't appreciate it, he sends us to burn in hell for ETERNITY

I subscribe to the idea that we are all going to be with God, if we want to. Some will prefer Hell to God. Read 'The Great Divorce' to see what I mean.

Oh right -- we should read a whole book to understand your great wisdom

It's very very short book! And yes, it is fiction- so what? (for the other poster who complains about that). There is truth in fiction books.

Also, I told you in brief what I mean: most theologians dont have a fire and brimstone view of hell. It is most like a choice that turns into an addition: God is like getting clean to an alcoholic, first you dont want to, then you cant. In this view, God just lets you go to hell bc thats where you want to be.

It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place

That was in reply to a poster whi complained about the Christian God sending people to hell. It mattered enough to that poster, since he/she made an issue of it. If you don't care for it, no problem at all.

That was me. The statement stands. It wasn't a complaint about the Christian God, it was a statement. The punishment for not accepting Christ as your savior is hell - which is very well known in Christianity and the reason why missionaries try to spread the Word -- to give people the opportunity to accept Jesus as their savior, so they can avoid hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You also neglected to quote the passage that follows immediately after (Acts 14:14-18New International Version (NIV):

14But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: 15“Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made the heavens and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 16In the past, he let all nations go their own way. 17Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy.” 18Even with these words, they had difficulty keeping the crowd from sacrificing to them.

This only shows movement from a polytheistic society to a monotheistic society, which I mentioned above. I believe there were over 600 gods/goddesses in Greek mythology (including, of course, the lesser gods). How complex! Why bother with so many when you can have just one who encompasses all of the traits of the 600+?

Do some research.

How many times have you (and possibly another poster) tried to mention Zeus, Horus. Mithras et al. in the same breath as December 25th and the gospels in general? You've been thoroughly debunked, especially wrt the December 25th point because that wasn't even a god's birthdate. Now you've moved on to arguing that a passage where Paul is trying to turn people AWAY from Zeus (the part you forgot to include in your quote) actually means that God = Zeus?

Whatever. Are you really that lazy a thinker?

Do some critical thinking before you post.

You're a moron - plain and simple.

Zeus was indeed their god before people made the move toward monotheism. Is that too hard for you to understand? When the Romans conquered the Greeks, they moved to Jupiter (and his minions) instead.

Constantine the Great, anyone? He hand picked parts of the bible to increase his power. Furthermore, those ruled have NO choice, as they are now unified under one god.

I'm a lazy thinker? lmfao

I'm the only one providing EVIDENCE to support my point.

You (and your minions) have provided no useful information toward any sane argument defending a belief in god.

Please share your research. I'll be waiting.

It wasn't until the First Council of Nicea (at @325 CE) when these gods were combined into one god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

You're a moron - plain and simple.

Zeus was indeed their god before people made the move toward monotheism. Is that too hard for you to understand? When the Romans conquered the Greeks, they moved to Jupiter (and his minions) instead.

Constantine the Great, anyone? He hand picked parts of the bible to increase his power. Furthermore, those ruled have NO choice, as they are now unified under one god.

I'm a lazy thinker? lmfao

I'm the only one providing EVIDENCE to support my point.

You (and your minions) have provided no useful information toward any sane argument defending a belief in god.

Please share your research. I'll be waiting.

It wasn't until the First Council of Nicea (at @325 CE) when these gods were combined into one god.

Well THAT was convincing.
- Kick it off with a bunch of insults.
- Toss in some completely irrelevant factoids. E.g., that the Romans worshiped Zeus who they borrowed from the Greeks. No sh!t, Sherlock, but this proves, ... um... nothing at all re Christianity.
- Toss in some ridiculous fake factoids. FYI, monotheism existed waaayyyy before the Council of Nicaea (learn how to spell it if you're going to reference it). What do you think the Jews believed in, around Jesus' era? Moreover, FYI, the Council of Nicaea actually solidified the idea of the Trinity, which was much in dispute at the time, because many up until 325 AD (and after, of course) believed in a monotheistic God without the Trinity.
- Toss in some more insults.
- Call it a day.

Where did you lean your history and your debating skills? A Cracker Jack box?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
It doesn't really matter what theologians and novelists think about hell if there's no reason to believe in such a terrible place

That was in reply to a poster whi complained about the Christian God sending people to hell. It mattered enough to that poster, since he/she made an issue of it. If you don't care for it, no problem at all.

That was me. The statement stands. It wasn't a complaint about the Christian God, it was a statement. The punishment for not accepting Christ as your savior is hell - which is very well known in Christianity and the reason why missionaries try to spread the Word -- to give people the opportunity to accept Jesus as their savior, so they can avoid hell.

No, actually, a lot of Christians DON'T believe this. We love it, though, when atheists tell us what they think we "should" or "do" believe.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

You're a moron - plain and simple.

Zeus was indeed their god before people made the move toward monotheism. Is that too hard for you to understand? When the Romans conquered the Greeks, they moved to Jupiter (and his minions) instead.

Constantine the Great, anyone? He hand picked parts of the bible to increase his power. Furthermore, those ruled have NO choice, as they are now unified under one god.

I'm a lazy thinker? lmfao

I'm the only one providing EVIDENCE to support my point.

You (and your minions) have provided no useful information toward any sane argument defending a belief in god.

Please share your research. I'll be waiting.

It wasn't until the First Council of Nicea (at @325 CE) when these gods were combined into one god.

Well THAT was convincing.
- Kick it off with a bunch of insults.
- Toss in some completely irrelevant factoids. E.g., that the Romans worshiped Zeus who they borrowed from the Greeks. No sh!t, Sherlock, but this proves, ... um... nothing at all re Christianity.
- Toss in some ridiculous fake factoids. FYI, monotheism existed waaayyyy before the Council of Nicaea (learn how to spell it if you're going to reference it). What do you think the Jews believed in, around Jesus' era? Moreover, FYI, the Council of Nicaea actually solidified the idea of the Trinity, which was much in dispute at the time, because many up until 325 AD (and after, of course) believed in a monotheistic God without the Trinity.
- Toss in some more insults.
- Call it a day.

Where did you lean your history and your debating skills? A Cracker Jack box?

P.S. You think your irrelevant and/or fake factoids constitute "evidence to support your point?" Bwahahahaha. Yes indeed. Not only did the Council of Nicaea "invent" monotheism, it also invented bubble gum and electric guitars, and I have "evidence" to prove it. Bwahahaha. Again.

[Anonymous]

I don't know why the OP just doesn't just point to his own existence as proof of the non-existence of God. Could any kind of God, no matter how cruel, create a being so desiring of being logical and yet so incapable of it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know why the OP just doesn't just point to his own existence as proof of the non-existence of God. Could any kind of God, no matter how cruel, create a being so desiring of being logical and yet so incapable of it?

Good point.

I also feel that OP should find a new ranting atheist site to get inspiration from. The supposed "evidence" that s/he picks up from the current ranting atheist site are incredibly lame and can be disposed of with a flick of a finger. It's not even much of a challenge to point out that Nicaea didn't invent monotheism, or that Horus and Mithras don't have much to do with Ddcember 25th. Hey, there are good reasons to question God's existence, if that's your game. But OP is incapable of making these complex arguments, and the current ranting atheist website she's apparently drawing from isn't doing her any favors.

[Anonymous]

"Why believe in God"

That is an arrogant, human-centered, self-serving approach to an issue which, if believed, is supposedly faith-based.