Why do Disney vacationers seem uniquely subjected to social vitriol?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:They are usually very uneducated. It's pathetic.

A whole group of us mes school graduates went for fun. Thanks for calling us uneducated.

They said they’re usually very uneducated, not that everyone who goes to Disney is uneducated. I’d think with whatever degree it is you have (I assume you meant med school?) you’d have better reading comprehension skills.

And the Venn diagram of people who go to Disney and people who are uneducated shows a huge overlap between the two. Again, since you didn’t get it the first time, it doesn’t mean that everyone who goes to Disney is uneducated, but the majority of people who go certainly are.

Everyone in here has said they have gone. So I guess you can include the Stroopwaffel and European ski poster in the uneducated bucket because they went too. Guess they’re just a bunch of rubes.

I’m going to refer you to your child’s statistics textbook whenever they take that class. You’ll learn so much.

You mean the one that says 70-90% of people of people have been to Disney? You clearly don’t know a lot of people.

Sigh. Are you now categorizing anyone who has been to Disney as the same as people who go to Disney over and over again? They’re two different groups of people. I can’t help you if you can’t understand that.

No you can’t help. Because you know very few people if you don’t know anyone who has been to Disney. I can’t help it if you’re an anti-social hermit and don’t really care to.

You’re obviously just a troll. I know tons of people. I also know tons of people who have been to Disney, including myself and my husband and kids. Again, people who have been to Disney once or twice but have no desire to go back are not the same as the people who make it their annual vacation. You sound very dim.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Sorry, but some of us had much better things to do than stand in line for two hours for a 90-second ride.

Well, not enough of you or else the line wouldn’t be 2 hours long.

Trust me, there are plenty of us who have no desire to go to Disney. That includes every single kid in both of my children’s classes, none of whom go to Orlando for vacation.

You have polled people about this? I’m sure they’re lying to you because what a bizarre thing to ask all these people.

So, we have what are called conversations. My kids talk to the other kids. I talk to the other parents. People discuss where they’re going on vacation. I’m sorry that concept is so foreign to you. Must be weird to not talk to anyone ever.

They are going to Disney. Just not on spring break. Who do you think is buying all those premier passes and VIP tours?

I’m so sorry to break it to you but we have conversations about what people do over the summer and other times of year as well. I’ve heard about multiple trips in all four seasons, none of which included Disney.

Also, who do I think is buying those passes? International visitors is my answer.

You are delusional trying to convince yourself that wealthy, educated Americans would never set foot in Disney. It’s apparently important for you to believe this but you could not be more wrong.

I never said wealthy, educated Americans would never set foot in Disney. I’ll wait for you to find that quote if you want.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They are usually very uneducated. It's pathetic.

A whole group of us mes school graduates went for fun. Thanks for calling us uneducated.

They said they’re usually very uneducated, not that everyone who goes to Disney is uneducated. I’d think with whatever degree it is you have (I assume you meant med school?) you’d have better reading comprehension skills.

And the Venn diagram of people who go to Disney and people who are uneducated shows a huge overlap between the two. Again, since you didn’t get it the first time, it doesn’t mean that everyone who goes to Disney is uneducated, but the majority of people who go certainly are.

Everyone in here has said they have gone. So I guess you can include the Stroopwaffel and European ski poster in the uneducated bucket because they went too. Guess they’re just a bunch of rubes.

I’m going to refer you to your child’s statistics textbook whenever they take that class. You’ll learn so much.

You mean the one that says 70-90% of people of people have been to Disney? You clearly don’t know a lot of people.

Sigh. Are you now categorizing anyone who has been to Disney as the same as people who go to Disney over and over again? They’re two different groups of people. I can’t help you if you can’t understand that.

No you can’t help. Because you know very few people if you don’t know anyone who has been to Disney. I can’t help it if you’re an anti-social hermit and don’t really care to.

You’re obviously just a troll. I know tons of people. I also know tons of people who have been to Disney, including myself and my husband and kids. Again, people who have been to Disney once or twice but have no desire to go back are not the same as the people who make it their annual vacation. You sound very dim.

Clearly the troll is you. And you keep moving the goal posts. First, nobody you know goes to Disney now it’s they just don’t go over and over. You really don’t need to come back in here but you just can’t help yourself. Imagine spending so much time denigrating vacations other people take. Bizarre behavior.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So much bitterness and jealousy on this thread. No one is forcing anyone to go to Disney. If you don’t want to go, don’t go! Problem solved. What exactly is your issue with other people taking a trip you don’t want to take? I’m not mad at people who like camping, something I have no desire to do. Why are you so mad?

The thread title is looking for explanations for vitriol!!!! RIF.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Sorry, but some of us had much better things to do than stand in line for two hours for a 90-second ride.

Well, not enough of you or else the line wouldn’t be 2 hours long.

Trust me, there are plenty of us who have no desire to go to Disney. That includes every single kid in both of my children’s classes, none of whom go to Orlando for vacation.

You have polled people about this? I’m sure they’re lying to you because what a bizarre thing to ask all these people.

So, we have what are called conversations. My kids talk to the other kids. I talk to the other parents. People discuss where they’re going on vacation. I’m sorry that concept is so foreign to you. Must be weird to not talk to anyone ever.

They are going to Disney. Just not on spring break. Who do you think is buying all those premier passes and VIP tours?

I’m so sorry to break it to you but we have conversations about what people do over the summer and other times of year as well. I’ve heard about multiple trips in all four seasons, none of which included Disney.

Also, who do I think is buying those passes? International visitors is my answer.

You are delusional trying to convince yourself that wealthy, educated Americans would never set foot in Disney. It’s apparently important for you to believe this but you could not be more wrong.

I never said wealthy, educated Americans would never set foot in Disney. I’ll wait for you to find that quote if you want.

I guess we can just assume the people you know are dumb and broke since they never go.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think if you took away all their photos and social media the luster would be gone for them. They seem to want to be this way for online bragging rights?

It would be an amazing social experiment to black box anyone having an experience. You get to have the experience, but no recording. Still happy?

+1

I think this is a huge part of it. Camera phones + SM have changed a lot of things, and Disney parks are a flashpoint.

And to be fair it's not just Disney. I'm the poster who's been to the Netherlands a lot for work and family and the number of people who go into Mauritshuis just to get in a line to take a picture with Girl with a Pearl Earring and then leave is pretty sad. I'm not sure they even look at the painting.

I also think Disney is trading in nostalgia from being better when people were kids, so they get the warm fuzzies. I remember just how amazing that puppet parade they had at EPCOT was. So they're trading off nostalgia for adults while not actually building those fundamental experiences with today's kids.

What are these puppets you keep talking about?

The millennium puppet parade. I grew up in Orlando and back then Disney had a lot of opportunities to go for free (my choir and band performed a lot and they'd give us free tickets). My younger sibling got to dance with the puppets.

When I worked at Disney we also had a roving talking robot in our section (a guy dressed as a tourist was secretly controlling it from a few feet away).

Back then was like 30 years ago. No wonder you seem so out of touch.

A) Again, I kept season status going for quite a while when I visited home and B) I still know people who work there because some of my work friends stayed on.

You’re the fool who was insisting that you had to book restaurants “6 months in advance!” Again and again. You know nothing.

Good lord, it was absolutely true for certain things for a while (Be Our Guest when it first opened?). Being pedantic isn't cute.

I mean if you want to see why people hate Disney adults, this right here. We got harassed by people like this all the time.

DP here. I don’t think it’s “pedantic.” You are trying to act like an expert while judging Disney Adults but also revealing your information is very outdated.

Denying the Enshittification is a bizarre take. I'm in a position to be familiar with the decline basically over decades. It accelerated significantly post COVID.

Again what we're conveying is Disney is taking away things that made the parks better while asking you to pay more and more money. And pay for things that used to be free.

You want to buy into that, fine.

No one’s denying that it’s more expensive and things that were once free now have a charge to them. But that pretty much describes most of life in the United States these days. If you have the money and still have fun there, it’s not a morally inferior vacation to beaches, skiiing, national parks, whatever. Our friends are obsessed with pricy camping gear and checking off National parks that have gotten far more crowded than in days past. That would not be my choice for repeated vacations but they enjoy it and that’s all I need to know. I’m happy for them.

I’m not sure about morally inferior given that we’re talking about vacations, but Disney is definitely an intellectually inferior vacation to visiting national parks, going abroad to experience other cultures, and other trips I’m not going to bother to name because you’ll just disagree.

You don’t learn anything at Disney except maybe at Animal Kingdom. You don’t experience other cultures (yes, I’ve been to Epcot multiple times). You don’t see historically significant locations. Etc, etc.

There are lots of people who go to Disney to relax and travel lots of others places for "intellectual stimulation". And there are lots of people who go to Europe or Asia and do nothing more intellectually stimulating than clicking a picture in front of a famous building or painting. So, I don't think this is the argument you think it is.

I have never seen anyone describe Disney as a place to "relax" before. It's the opposite of relaxing.

Which, if that's your thing, fine.

I don't dislike people who like Disney, I just think it's appropriate to give people reasonable expectations. Ultimately Disney is a theme park and keeping that in perspective is a reasonable attitude.

They've lost a lot of the stuff that set them apart. Universal nailed that Harry Potter immersion for instance (but rests way way too heavily on video rides). The intense roller coaster game has commonly been played by Cedar Point. There's Dollywood and Hershey Park which have grown in popularity.

Disney's Park IP is fading a little bit and they need to figure that out. (Mickey just isn't that popular with kids anymore).

Disney has lost some of the play spaces they used to have that you can still find at other parks (when my husband was little he spent a lot of time at Tom Sawyer Island, which has since been removed).

So there's been a shift into older adults who can still engage with the Park IP and don't necessarily need some of the cool down/play spaces but there's a reasonable question about how that's going to fare in the parks longer term and what they can bring to the theme park game long term that makes them worth the premium they're asking for.

The Disney Adults spend a ton of money in the parks though. Food, merch, etc. And they go year after year.

For a lot of families with kids, Disney is a one and done. I know this forum is a bubble but even if you do Disney on a budget it's still expensive enough to be a "big" once-in-a-lifetime kind of trip for many families.

Yeah the people who put Disney stickers on their cars! Yes mega corp, I will pay you so I
can advertise for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they could go anywhere in the world, assuming an adults only group, and yet they spend their hard earned vacation time and money in a surreal fantasy world designed for children. And don't forget the pandering to American consumerism.

But what’s it to you? No one is making you take part.

Oh we got grief from my in laws that we were depriving our children of the Disney experience. I told them we aren’t into that type of fantasy and consumerism. Didn’t realize I was a bad parent for not taking my kids to Disney even once.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The reason people (here) hate it is because it is a cross section of the US population. They are forced to see outside their bubble and acknowledge that yes there are fat Walmart moms among us as well us unrefined slobs wearing shirts and people who yell at their kids. And adults who like rollercoasters and dole whips and parents who make vacation all about the kids. If you can’t unwind and enjoy for a couple of days then keep taking your kids to boring history museums around the world, we’re having way more fun at Disney.

What this post reminds me of is that I don't think any rollercoaster is worth waiting more than 15 minutes for. I have read about the rise of bookable rides, special passes, and all the rest of the revenue extraction mechanisms. I think there is a very poor value for money at Disney on busy days. I remember as a kid deciding that Space Mountain wasn't worth 90 minutes of wait. I eventually got to try it years later and it was a dull experience. I do not like crowds and wasted time. And Dole Whip IS an inferior dessert.

lol ok so basically no fun at all.

PP. How about too smart to overpay for a mediocre experience?

Have you ever been to one of these parks on a low attendance day when you can walk on to rides? That is awesome. Re: rollercoasters specifically, Cedar Point is a good example. In the summer you can wait 2 hours in a line, surrounded by morons who smell like weed, to take one 3 minute ride. Or, on a grey evening in early fall, you can throw on a sweatshirt and ride 10 times. If you actually like roller coasters, which is more fun?

Disney overcharges now. They keep perfecting revenue extraction. When I was a kid, a character "experience" was randomly encountering a costumed worker serendipitous strolling the park. Now it's a paid bookable thing that costs extra. Is it really different to the little kid after? They got a hug and a photo. But the parents now might be $400 poorer.

This is not about pure fun. It's about the fun value per $ ratio.

Here's a Europe example. Going up in the Eiffel Tower costs money and takes a lot of time. And honestly is not that interesting if you don't understand what the tiny ground-level features are that you are looking at. Seeing the Eiffel Tower do its sparkle show at night from across the river is a fun, free, and quick way to "see" the Eiffel Tower.

I just went to LA at Christmas and I wanted to take my kids to a park, but I skipped it because the crowd estimates indicated that we might only be able to do a handful of rides in exchange for $100+ tickets. And the weather was predicted to be dicey. Universal Studios no longer allows just a studio tour. The price is dramatically inflated because they've added just a few rollercoasters and experience areas. They literally have made things a worse value since I went as a kid. And a lot of the features are from old movies that my kids can't even relate to.

I’ve had some amazing days at Disney. But sure, if you want to mosey into a park at 11 am with no plan or strategy on a school holiday, you’re going to a pay a premium for a miserable time.

Everything is crowded now. Too many people are always trying to do the same things. If it was dead it would probably be because it's run down and nobody wants to go there.

There's a great NY Time article about Disney which juxtaposes the experience of a wealthy man paying whatever to take his daughter through and a working class family that scrimps and saves to make it happen. TLDR is the wealthy dad and daughter have an amazing great trip, see everything and do everything they want while the working class family really struggles and misses out on a lot.

I did not take my kids when they were little, although I went as a little kid and didn't really care for it. Many families around us went and I never judged them for it, it's just not my cup of tea.

That article was weird. The blue collar family was staying for well over a week, missed out on the lightning lane windows, waited in line longer, etc. They could have stayed on property for fewer days, booked the LL 7 days out and done it all spending about the same amount of money in a shorter stay.

Why should you need a degree in Disney just to visit?

Feels like shopping at Safeway where you need to go through the weekly specials, then the digital coupons, then the just4u specials then the online shopping specials then the manufacturer coupons. Or you could just go to Aldi.

In travel terms, just go to a state or national park or a museum.

You wouldn't dare show up to Paris without figuring out how to visit the Eiffel Tower, the Louvre, Versailles, or any other main attractions first. This is how life is now. Everything is crowded, plan ahead.

Got to a national park? Hope you got your tickets as soon as the window opened. Maybe it as 30 days in advance, maybe it was a year in advance. It all takes planning and coordination. You can't just roll up with your camper to Yosemite on a whim.

I travel.for work with occasional down days and I've had trips where I took the train to places like Florence, Leiden or Ghent and just wandered around and had a great time. You can actually vacation without being constantly on your phone like Disney demands.

With 3 small kids? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. Disney is a family trip. Traveling with a family requires planning. You can't just wander around, sit in a cafe and smoke and read a book pretending to be chic with kids in tow.

Literally did Leiden on impulse with 3 kids (including my nephews) and it went fine. We went to the Hortus Botanicus and the fort and got Stroopwaffles at the market.

People way exaggerate the difficulty of Disney planning. Obviously you had to get transport to Leiden, Google attractions, where to eat, and how to get around. For Disney once you read, um, one paragraph on lightning lanes you are good to go. The difference is actually that Disney has *so much* to do that most people do want to do additional research to decide what to do when.

Basically if you want to ride the major rides you either have to shell out or massively time everything. Otherwise riding the popular rides is over an hour in line.

Jenny Nichols digs into this in that massive Star Wars hotel video (she, like me, is a former employee). The frustration of taking things that were free and putting them behind payrolls and making it harder to go to the parks.

So going to Leiden with my family didn't actually require googling because I was with family who k own the area. But even with a current Disney employee who knows the parks well, you have to watch apps dor ride times and when you can get on rides. It's messy and much more phone dependent than a standard outing.

No, it’s really not but you are determined to dig your heels in. You could just walk up and wait in line.

Sorry, but some of us had much better things to do than stand in line for two hours for a 90-second ride.

Well, not enough of you or else the line wouldn’t be 2 hours long.

Trust me, there are plenty of us who have no desire to go to Disney. That includes every single kid in both of my children’s classes, none of whom go to Orlando for vacation.

You have polled people about this? I’m sure they’re lying to you because what a bizarre thing to ask all these people.

So, we have what are called conversations. My kids talk to the other kids. I talk to the other parents. People discuss where they’re going on vacation. I’m sorry that concept is so foreign to you. Must be weird to not talk to anyone ever.

I guess your people can’t afford it given how expensive it is these days.

I'm sort of trying to decide if this person is trolling or just weird. Surely someone would know this kind of comment would reflect badly on them, no?

So I'm going with "someone's bored."

Ditto. Going on and on about being above Disney is super weird. Nobody forced you to participate.

You know there's more than one poster here, right? My last post was talking about visiting Disney after labor day when I was a kid. I've had some great times at Disney.

But smugly telling people "your crowd must not be able to afford it" doesn't make Disney or you look good.

Smugly telling people “it’s just for the uneducated poors or those with mental issues” makes you an insufferable snob.

I didn’t write that but I’d much rather be an insufferable snob than wait in line for hours over a few days in a concrete fairy tale.

At this point you just sound jealous protesting so much.

I took my kids to Alaska instead - a natural playground, notta hyped up amusement park.

You don't vacation regularly with your kids giving them a variety of experiences? I feel sorry for them. You sound like the lady sad her Dubai spring break trip was canceled.[/quote/]

No we only take 1 or two weeks a year. We both work full time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they could go anywhere in the world, assuming an adults only group, and yet they spend their hard earned vacation time and money in a surreal fantasy world designed for children. And don't forget the pandering to American consumerism.

But what’s it to you? No one is making you take part.

Oh we got grief from my in laws that we were depriving our children of the Disney experience. I told them we aren’t into that type of fantasy and consumerism. Didn’t realize I was a bad parent for not taking my kids to Disney even once.

I mean it’s super expensive so unless they’re willing to pay they can stfu. For my family of 5 it’s $900 a day just for tickets, then at $300-500 hotel. Of course you all need lightning lane passes too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they could go anywhere in the world, assuming an adults only group, and yet they spend their hard earned vacation time and money in a surreal fantasy world designed for children. And don't forget the pandering to American consumerism.

But what’s it to you? No one is making you take part.

Oh we got grief from my in laws that we were depriving our children of the Disney experience. I told them we aren’t into that type of fantasy and consumerism. Didn’t realize I was a bad parent for not taking my kids to Disney even once.

I mean it’s super expensive so unless they’re willing to pay they can stfu. For my family of 5 it’s $900 a day just for tickets, then at $300-500 hotel. Of course you all need lightning lane passes too.

My broke bil and sil took their kids multiple times. Of course my nieces had no college funds…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are annual WDW visitors (with DVC). We started taking our kids there because it was an easy trip where kid behavior was tolerated, and as kids grew, they could enjoy some degree of independence. Some of the PPs are correct that the Disney Bounding adults are difficult. An example... we took our grandson to the MK Halloween Party in an adorable Donald Duck costume and he wanted to meet Donald, but the line was 1.5 hours long, with the vast majority being 20-somethings. If only Disney would reserve certain times for little kids or have multiples of some characters, etc. I don't want to deny them their fun, but their sheer numbers and passion/exuberance sometimes do make things hard for families.

That’s just corporate greed. Selling too many party tickets. The problem is Disney. Not the other people who paid the same thing to attend that you did. Your grandson is not more deserving of meeting Donald than a 20-something.

Disney is for anyone. It’s not “for kids.”

The difference is that a 3 year old's ability to wait in that line is a lot less than a 20-something's. Get it?

Does the 3yo even care about meeting characters? Or is it just the parents wanting the photo op.

Does a 3yo get anything at all out of a trip to Europe?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they could go anywhere in the world, assuming an adults only group, and yet they spend their hard earned vacation time and money in a surreal fantasy world designed for children. And don't forget the pandering to American consumerism.

But what’s it to you? No one is making you take part.

Oh we got grief from my in laws that we were depriving our children of the Disney experience. I told them we aren’t into that type of fantasy and consumerism. Didn’t realize I was a bad parent for not taking my kids to Disney even once.

I mean it’s super expensive so unless they’re willing to pay they can stfu. For my family of 5 it’s $900 a day just for tickets, then at $300-500 hotel. Of course you all need lightning lane passes too.

My broke bil and sil took their kids multiple times. Of course my nieces had no college funds…

A $4k Disney trip would not pay for college. Neither would multiple trips.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are annual WDW visitors (with DVC). We started taking our kids there because it was an easy trip where kid behavior was tolerated, and as kids grew, they could enjoy some degree of independence. Some of the PPs are correct that the Disney Bounding adults are difficult. An example... we took our grandson to the MK Halloween Party in an adorable Donald Duck costume and he wanted to meet Donald, but the line was 1.5 hours long, with the vast majority being 20-somethings. If only Disney would reserve certain times for little kids or have multiples of some characters, etc. I don't want to deny them their fun, but their sheer numbers and passion/exuberance sometimes do make things hard for families.

That’s just corporate greed. Selling too many party tickets. The problem is Disney. Not the other people who paid the same thing to attend that you did. Your grandson is not more deserving of meeting Donald than a 20-something.

Disney is for anyone. It’s not “for kids.”

The difference is that a 3 year old's ability to wait in that line is a lot less than a 20-something's. Get it?

Does the 3yo even care about meeting characters? Or is it just the parents wanting the photo op.

Does a 3yo get anything at all out of a trip to Europe?

I don't know about a 3 year old but my sister was 4 during our first trip to Europe and she enjoyed it. She's been a fan of Pinocchio ever since (wooden craft dolls).

My aunt also went to Europe on a transAtlantic Queen Mary voyage at the age of 4. She enjoyed it enough that she talked to her kindergarten teacher about the trip and the teacher thought she was lying about the trip. This was a famous story in our family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are annual WDW visitors (with DVC). We started taking our kids there because it was an easy trip where kid behavior was tolerated, and as kids grew, they could enjoy some degree of independence. Some of the PPs are correct that the Disney Bounding adults are difficult. An example... we took our grandson to the MK Halloween Party in an adorable Donald Duck costume and he wanted to meet Donald, but the line was 1.5 hours long, with the vast majority being 20-somethings. If only Disney would reserve certain times for little kids or have multiples of some characters, etc. I don't want to deny them their fun, but their sheer numbers and passion/exuberance sometimes do make things hard for families.

That’s just corporate greed. Selling too many party tickets. The problem is Disney. Not the other people who paid the same thing to attend that you did. Your grandson is not more deserving of meeting Donald than a 20-something.

Disney is for anyone. It’s not “for kids.”

The difference is that a 3 year old's ability to wait in that line is a lot less than a 20-something's. Get it?

Does the 3yo even care about meeting characters? Or is it just the parents wanting the photo op.

Does a 3yo get anything at all out of a trip to Europe?

So I go to Europe because my family's there (my Dad's a dual citizen). My kid who is 7 now can't really remember our trip when he was 3 now, but he did have a total blast at the time. He still asks me to make this cake he got obsessed with.

[Anonymous]

Because it's infantile.