Arlington proposing to close county gymnastics program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Non residents do pay more. You can see the tuition costs at this link. Each level has two numbers divided with a slash. The higher number to the right of the slash is the tuition for non residents.

Got to page 2 and click on Aerials and/or Tigers 2025-2026. You’ll see all the teams offered and the yearly tuition. Aerials nonresident ranges from $3150 a year for preteam to $7690 for the highest levels. Tigers $2960 to $8760. Resident is lower for every level.

https://vaarlingtonweb.myvscloud.com/webtrac/web/search.html?Action=Start&SubAction=&_csrf_token=Nb6C0J0R026H262B323I2M625O5W5E581I5H3U6C4S0T6S5C53521D5X5X6J6J1K5T4F4D4Y6Y565T4O4U086T4S545005735Z504E005H434Z4G6Z5R4N5G4W715Q5Z5F&age=10&location=BSFC&beginmonth=&primarycode=&keyword=&keywordoption=Match+One&dayoption=Any&showwithavailable=No&display=Detail&search=yes&page=2&module=ar&multiselectlist_value=

These tuition numbers are in line with area private gyms, but obviously most private gyms don’t have fee waivers.

If my link doesn’t work just open the registration portal, select Barcroft as a location, put in 10 for an age, and find it on the second page.

I wonder how much of an issue the fee waivers are here. With DPS giving priority camp registration to people on fee waivers, and the high staff costs of running camps, it is easy to see how that aspect of the program could lose money. And that’s not the sort of thing “equitable Arlington” would want to talk about in any great detail.

[Anonymous]

Giving priority to those with few waivers and then teller isn’t enough money so suggesting to shut it all down instead of fixing their billing issue is the most Arlington thing ever. Next up, let’s just put housing on that land.

[Anonymous]

I wonder how much of an issue the fee waivers are here. With DPS giving priority camp registration to people on fee waivers, and the high staff costs of running camps, it is easy to see how that aspect of the program could lose money. And that’s not the sort of thing “equitable Arlington” would want to talk about in any great detail.

This info would be good to have, there have always been fee reductions though. I guess would be good to know if that changed over time. I would generally think gymnastics should not be exempted (adult leagues are for instance but this activity is primarily children and should have equitable access).

If the camp thing is an issue, it should be affecting a lot of programs. It’s also a fee reduction for most people, so most people are still paying something. There is something they call a hardship request that you can fill out and get a 20% fee reduction for six months. The income limit is quite a bit higher. I assume all the federal workforce reductions since Jan 2025 would have resulted in more people getting this discount, and I’m curious what impact that could have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stafford is the only other one that could be considered northern VA. The classes offered by Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun are on set up and take down basis in multi use areas.

Then there’s Sportsplax in PG county which is operated by parks and rec as far as the program. But obviously the building administration and initial capital was different from Barcroft. But my impression of strictly how the gymnastics program is run it seems very similar to Arlington.

Going farther north there are some others in Maryland I’m pretty sure. But I can’t name them off the top of my head.

Capital posts all their team tuition online, you can look it up. Arlington is well in range and more expensive in some cases. Tuition wise. Keep in mind these private teams have competitive “assessment fees” during the season of 1-2K total in addition to tuition. This covers coaching fees for meets and such. The team parent associations for Arlington also cover these fees, but I don’t know what the current fee level is there, and how it compares. From the county accounting perspective, they probably need to keep things separate but maybe more fees could be assessed at the county level to make up a salary gap, for instance. Again we don’t have any hard numbers (on the Arlington side) so it’s hard to say.

So this is not a standard offering for a local government is the answer.

I’m not sure it’s been brought up but the gymnastics team has non-Arlington members and they aren’t asked to pay any more. They should pay more.

They do pay more

[Anonymous]

Not current era but all these issues have been talked about for years.

https://www.arlnow.com/2014/06/18/board-reverses-non-resident-surcharge-hike-for-sports-programs/

Acting like it’s a shock or out of nowhere that people have questioned this program existing or how it is funded is just not true.

[Anonymous]

The article above would seem to support the idea the team has covered their operating costs in the past but have never covered the costs of operating the facility, which are significant.

“County staff told the Board that team fees aren’t sufficient to pay for county costs after all facility costs are factored in.”

This is all a larger issue and the Board should ask some committee to go off and study it and come back with recommendations and the committee should just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The article above would seem to support the idea the team has covered their operating costs in the past but have never covered the costs of operating the facility, which are significant.

“County staff told the Board that team fees aren’t sufficient to pay for county costs after all facility costs are factored in.”

This is all a larger issue and the Board should ask some committee to go off and study it and come back with recommendations and the committee should just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

Sorry the committee should NOT just be stacked with gymnastics and swim people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not current era but all these issues have been talked about for years.

https://www.arlnow.com/2014/06/18/board-reverses-non-resident-surcharge-hike-for-sports-programs/

Acting like it’s a shock or out of nowhere that people have questioned this program existing or how it is funded is just not true.

This would be a typical trajectory for a county or schools issue.

We are providing something to residents that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense in the bigger picture or is not sustainable? Let’s talk about it. Whoops people are mad. Let’s sweep it under the rug and let different politicians deal with it in another decade.

Rinse and repeat.

[Anonymous]

I've never heard of a county providing a competitive gymnastics team like a private gym team! I'm surprised to hear this is something available in Arlington.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stafford is the only other one that could be considered northern VA. The classes offered by Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun are on set up and take down basis in multi use areas.

Then there’s Sportsplax in PG county which is operated by parks and rec as far as the program. But obviously the building administration and initial capital was different from Barcroft. But my impression of strictly how the gymnastics program is run it seems very similar to Arlington.

Going farther north there are some others in Maryland I’m pretty sure. But I can’t name them off the top of my head.

Capital posts all their team tuition online, you can look it up. Arlington is well in range and more expensive in some cases. Tuition wise. Keep in mind these private teams have competitive “assessment fees” during the season of 1-2K total in addition to tuition. This covers coaching fees for meets and such. The team parent associations for Arlington also cover these fees, but I don’t know what the current fee level is there, and how it compares. From the county accounting perspective, they probably need to keep things separate but maybe more fees could be assessed at the county level to make up a salary gap, for instance. Again we don’t have any hard numbers (on the Arlington side) so it’s hard to say.

So this is not a standard offering for a local government is the answer.

Nature centers, a bike trail, and Long Bridge also aren't standard county offerings for pretty much anywhere. Arlington's an affluent community that has nice things.

Arlington is affluent but money is still finite and you still have to be able to justify expenditures. Nature centers serve educational purposes, not just at schools but for the general community, put on events for all ages, and help preserve green spaces. Is there a single public (or even private) school child in Arlington County who hasn't been through one of the nature centers and learned about hawks or owls or seen one up close for the first or only time? I doubt it. Bike trails are inexpensive to build and maintain, promote a healthy activity for all ages, and provide an alternative commuting method in a county with awful traffic. Long Bridge offers programming from birth to 80+, including foundational water safety classes, teaching an essential, life saving skill. It's a facility that is used pretty equally by kids, middle aged adults, and the elderly.

Now make the case for the Bancroft gymnastics program in a way that makes it as appealing or beneficial as the three other amenities you mentioned. If you can't do that in a way that is convincing for your fellow residents, then the program shouldn't exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've never heard of a county providing a competitive gymnastics team like a private gym team! I'm surprised to hear this is something available in Arlington.

I’ve also never heard of a county subsidizing a competitive swim team, building a new community boathouse, or providing county space rent-free to a Tony-award winning theater.

If Arlington needs to cut recreation costs, why not stop work on the boathouse for another year or two and increase costs for competitive swim and competitive gymnastics?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stafford is the only other one that could be considered northern VA. The classes offered by Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun are on set up and take down basis in multi use areas.

Then there’s Sportsplax in PG county which is operated by parks and rec as far as the program. But obviously the building administration and initial capital was different from Barcroft. But my impression of strictly how the gymnastics program is run it seems very similar to Arlington.

Going farther north there are some others in Maryland I’m pretty sure. But I can’t name them off the top of my head.

Capital posts all their team tuition online, you can look it up. Arlington is well in range and more expensive in some cases. Tuition wise. Keep in mind these private teams have competitive “assessment fees” during the season of 1-2K total in addition to tuition. This covers coaching fees for meets and such. The team parent associations for Arlington also cover these fees, but I don’t know what the current fee level is there, and how it compares. From the county accounting perspective, they probably need to keep things separate but maybe more fees could be assessed at the county level to make up a salary gap, for instance. Again we don’t have any hard numbers (on the Arlington side) so it’s hard to say.

So this is not a standard offering for a local government is the answer.

Nature centers, a bike trail, and Long Bridge also aren't standard county offerings for pretty much anywhere. Arlington's an affluent community that has nice things.

Arlington is affluent but money is still finite and you still have to be able to justify expenditures. Nature centers serve educational purposes, not just at schools but for the general community, put on events for all ages, and help preserve green spaces. Is there a single public (or even private) school child in Arlington County who hasn't been through one of the nature centers and learned about hawks or owls or seen one up close for the first or only time? I doubt it. Bike trails are inexpensive to build and maintain, promote a healthy activity for all ages, and provide an alternative commuting method in a county with awful traffic. Long Bridge offers programming from birth to 80+, including foundational water safety classes, teaching an essential, life saving skill. It's a facility that is used pretty equally by kids, middle aged adults, and the elderly.

Now make the case for the Bancroft gymnastics program in a way that makes it as appealing or beneficial as the three other amenities you mentioned. If you can't do that in a way that is convincing for your fellow residents, then the program shouldn't exist.

It really just sounds like you're not familiar with the gymnastics program, which offers programming for toddlers, preschoolers, kids--all the way through high school--plus there's both an adaptive and an adult program (with a waitlist above 50 people). It's one of the only boys gymnastics programs in the area, something that's really hard to find. Gymnastics offers lots of health benefits including strength and balance training, flexibility, and overall health benefits. It's a very quality and popular program, with huge waitlists. A large number of kids in the county take at least one gymnastics class at some point in their childhood. The facility also serves as home to the Wakefield gymnastics team, making it equal with the programs provided at Yorktown and WL, as there's not a space for the Wakefield team to practice at Wakefield. On top of all this, there's a possibility for the program to cover its costs such that it's a resource for the community and not a burden. We just need to get the county manager and DPR on board with maximizing the facility and making sure it's being fully utilized.

And you can make claims about water safety and Long Bridge being necessary all you want, but there is absolutely no justification for the largesse that is that facility. We already had public pools in Arlington at each of the high schools. Long Bridge could have been a facility that benefited the whole community, but instead it was very focused on competitive swim, and it's continuing to eat up county funds with expensive repairs to a brand new facility and by running a loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never heard of a county providing a competitive gymnastics team like a private gym team! I'm surprised to hear this is something available in Arlington.

I’ve also never heard of a county subsidizing a competitive swim team, building a new community boathouse, or providing county space rent-free to a Tony-award winning theater.

If Arlington needs to cut recreation costs, why not stop work on the boathouse for another year or two and increase costs for competitive swim and competitive gymnastics?

Agree with you. These are all good points.

However, pointing out other things that shouldn’t be happening as justification for your thing that shouldn’t be happening is not that big of a flex.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stafford is the only other one that could be considered northern VA. The classes offered by Fairfax, Prince William, and Loudoun are on set up and take down basis in multi use areas.

Then there’s Sportsplax in PG county which is operated by parks and rec as far as the program. But obviously the building administration and initial capital was different from Barcroft. But my impression of strictly how the gymnastics program is run it seems very similar to Arlington.

Going farther north there are some others in Maryland I’m pretty sure. But I can’t name them off the top of my head.

Capital posts all their team tuition online, you can look it up. Arlington is well in range and more expensive in some cases. Tuition wise. Keep in mind these private teams have competitive “assessment fees” during the season of 1-2K total in addition to tuition. This covers coaching fees for meets and such. The team parent associations for Arlington also cover these fees, but I don’t know what the current fee level is there, and how it compares. From the county accounting perspective, they probably need to keep things separate but maybe more fees could be assessed at the county level to make up a salary gap, for instance. Again we don’t have any hard numbers (on the Arlington side) so it’s hard to say.

So this is not a standard offering for a local government is the answer.

Nature centers, a bike trail, and Long Bridge also aren't standard county offerings for pretty much anywhere. Arlington's an affluent community that has nice things.

Arlington is affluent but money is still finite and you still have to be able to justify expenditures. Nature centers serve educational purposes, not just at schools but for the general community, put on events for all ages, and help preserve green spaces. Is there a single public (or even private) school child in Arlington County who hasn't been through one of the nature centers and learned about hawks or owls or seen one up close for the first or only time? I doubt it. Bike trails are inexpensive to build and maintain, promote a healthy activity for all ages, and provide an alternative commuting method in a county with awful traffic. Long Bridge offers programming from birth to 80+, including foundational water safety classes, teaching an essential, life saving skill. It's a facility that is used pretty equally by kids, middle aged adults, and the elderly.

Now make the case for the Bancroft gymnastics program in a way that makes it as appealing or beneficial as the three other amenities you mentioned. If you can't do that in a way that is convincing for your fellow residents, then the program shouldn't exist.

It really just sounds like you're not familiar with the gymnastics program, which offers programming for toddlers, preschoolers, kids--all the way through high school--plus there's both an adaptive and an adult program (with a waitlist above 50 people). It's one of the only boys gymnastics programs in the area, something that's really hard to find. Gymnastics offers lots of health benefits including strength and balance training, flexibility, and overall health benefits. It's a very quality and popular program, with huge waitlists. A large number of kids in the county take at least one gymnastics class at some point in their childhood. The facility also serves as home to the Wakefield gymnastics team, making it equal with the programs provided at Yorktown and WL, as there's not a space for the Wakefield team to practice at Wakefield. On top of all this, there's a possibility for the program to cover its costs such that it's a resource for the community and not a burden. We just need to get the county manager and DPR on board with maximizing the facility and making sure it's being fully utilized.

And you can make claims about water safety and Long Bridge being necessary all you want, but there is absolutely no justification for the largesse that is that facility. We already had public pools in Arlington at each of the high schools. Long Bridge could have been a facility that benefited the whole community, but instead it was very focused on competitive swim, and it's continuing to eat up county funds with expensive repairs to a brand new facility and by running a loss.

+1 Long Bridge has high dives that I have seen used once or twice in many visits to the facility. I cannot imagine how much it costs to install, maintain, and insure these high dives, and it seems the actual use of the high dives is extraordinarily rare. How do these high dives benefit Arlington residents? The higher of the two is a type of board I’ve only ever seen in person at the USNA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've never heard of a county providing a competitive gymnastics team like a private gym team! I'm surprised to hear this is something available in Arlington.

I’ve also never heard of a county subsidizing a competitive swim team, building a new community boathouse, or providing county space rent-free to a Tony-award winning theater.

If Arlington needs to cut recreation costs, why not stop work on the boathouse for another year or two and increase costs for competitive swim and competitive gymnastics?

Agree with you. These are all good points.

However, pointing out other things that shouldn’t be happening as justification for your thing that shouldn’t be happening is not that big of a flex.

I also think the overall community benefit of gymnastics vs these other activities minus the boathouse is not in your favor.

Acting like gymnastics has the same broad demand and use as a pool just kills any credibility.