Hating donut hole life: athletic recruiting version

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you say that being an athlete is an 'unearned hook' - like legacy. Do you know how hard those athletes work? You might not like that it's a priority but they 'earn it'

It is nothing like high school newspaper (although I agree w the pp who noted the difference around college newspapers - that's a full time job).

I was puzzled by the whole athletic thing when I was at my HYP - and why the university cared so much. Now all these years later, I get it. The athletes are pretty darn successful and they are loyal alums. Turns out that extra 100 points on the SAT doesn't translate to success.

I hire on wall street. Always happy to have people who have done things like athletics or run a college paper - they are good team players, hard workers etc. Don't knock it.

Sure, they work hard (although most sports virtually require a certain socio-economic background). What I find more interesting is your admission that intellect isn’t that important on Wall Street.

I thought that was well known. being a glutton for long hours, irregular schedule, fitting in culturally (for front office jobs), being “clubbable” matters more than pure intellect. The smartest kids go into tech, sciences, pursue PhDs, academia. Smarts does not auto equal money or pursuing money. Actually I would
say being too smart is an impediment to success in business.

Being too smart is an impediment to success in just about anything.

Not, in my experience, academia. Being 'too smart' is not at all an impediment. There is no such thing as 'too smart'. The problem is that super smart often (but by no means always) correlates with other, real impediments: autism, communication problems/ low EQ, social issues, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How can you say that being an athlete is an 'unearned hook' - like legacy. Do you know how hard those athletes work? You might not like that it's a priority but they 'earn it'

It is nothing like high school newspaper (although I agree w the pp who noted the difference around college newspapers - that's a full time job).

I was puzzled by the whole athletic thing when I was at my HYP - and why the university cared so much. Now all these years later, I get it. The athletes are pretty darn successful and they are loyal alums. Turns out that extra 100 points on the SAT doesn't translate to success.

I hire on wall street. Always happy to have people who have done things like athletics or run a college paper - they are good team players, hard workers etc. Don't knock it.

Sure, they work hard (although most sports virtually require a certain socio-economic background). What I find more interesting is your admission that intellect isn’t that important on Wall Street.

I thought that was well known. being a glutton for long hours, irregular schedule, fitting in culturally (for front office jobs), being “clubbable” matters more than pure intellect. The smartest kids go into tech, sciences, pursue PhDs, academia. Smarts does not auto equal money or pursuing money. Actually I would
say being too smart is an impediment to success in business.

Being too smart is an impediment to success in just about anything.

Not, in my experience, academia. Being 'too smart' is not at all an impediment. There is no such thing as 'too smart'. The problem is that super smart often (but by no means always) correlates with other, real impediments: autism, communication problems/ low EQ, social issues, etc.

Most academics are grinders. It takes a particular (often conformist), hardworking personality willing to put up with 7 years of supervision and “learning the field.” Most very smart, creative folks (and I am not talking about those on the spectrum) find that too stifling.
The difference is that academics — unlike Wall Streeters — do think they are more intelligent than they are, and many have never really worked outside of the academe.

[Anonymous]

Wow I can't imagine working hard for 4+ years to have to play D3 sports at a college on my own dime.

I was D1 and didn't have to pay for college. That is what my two kids are planning to do! D3 is a sad middle place where you still have to do all the work with none of the perks or benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow I can't imagine working hard for 4+ years to have to play D3 sports at a college on my own dime.

I was D1 and didn't have to pay for college. That is what my two kids are planning to do! D3 is a sad middle place where you still have to do all the work with none of the perks or benefits.

You, like many PPs on this thread, are a sad, middle person.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than
an academic experience.

the issue is that any kid who can get a slot at Williams or Amherst (full pay) is never passing that up for a 25% athletic scholarship to a Patriot league school. Too
much difference in the perceived value of the degrees - abother thread on that lol

You don’t understand most athletes. The vast majority want to compete at a D1 level and would take Lehigh over Williams and Amherst with zero $$$s.

Most kids have little interest in schools that small no matter what.

Mine turned down Lehigh and two other Patriot League schools for a NESCAC. There was not much money so they chose the better overall academics and experience. Decision might have been different for an Ivy.

I call BS on this one. If your kid is a legit Patriot League athlete then they could have also played at one of the Ivies and nobody is choosing D3 NESCAC over D1 Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than
an academic experience.

the issue is that any kid who can get a slot at Williams or Amherst (full pay) is never passing that up for a 25% athletic scholarship to a Patriot league school. Too
much difference in the perceived value of the degrees - abother thread on that lol

You don’t understand most athletes. The vast majority want to compete at a D1 level and would take Lehigh over Williams and Amherst with zero $$$s.

Most kids have little interest in schools that small no matter what.

Mine turned down Lehigh and two other Patriot League schools for a NESCAC. There was not much money so they chose the better overall academics and experience. Decision might have been different for an Ivy.

I call BS on this one. If your kid is a legit Patriot League athlete then they could have also played at one of the Ivies and nobody is choosing D3 NESCAC over D1 Ivy.

It wasn’t a revenue sport as they said it wasn’t much money at the Patriot schools. Ivy teams are much better in lax, soccer, crew and many of the other sports. It’s very possible you are recruited Patriot but not Ivy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than
an academic experience.

the issue is that any kid who can get a slot at Williams or Amherst (full pay) is never passing that up for a 25% athletic scholarship to a Patriot league school. Too
much difference in the perceived value of the degrees - abother thread on that lol

You don’t understand most athletes. The vast majority want to compete at a D1 level and would take Lehigh over Williams and Amherst with zero $$$s.

Most kids have little interest in schools that small no matter what.

Mine turned down Lehigh and two other Patriot League schools for a NESCAC. There was not much money so they chose the better overall academics and experience. Decision might have been different for an Ivy.

I call BS on this one. If your kid is a legit Patriot League athlete then they could have also played at one of the Ivies and nobody is choosing D3 NESCAC over D1 Ivy.

The overlap between the Ivy League, Patriot League, and NESCAC in non revenue sports particularly in Women’s sports is pretty large. The top 4 NESCAC (Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Tufts) are equal or better than Lafayette, Holy Cross, Loyola Maryland and American in many sports. Better than Columbia, Dartmouth and Brown in some as well.

It is very common to have competing offers and since there is little or no money involved you see a lot of kids go the NESCAC route. My kid had other D1 offers as well but the academics weren’t there. Impact player as a freshman, it’s been a great experience so far.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugh I hate not being rich right now. DC has athletic recruiting offers to some top SLAC schools, but they don't do athletic or merit scholarships. I ran the NPCs and we get zero financial aid at all of them, but they're just too expensive for us to pay full price.

Now DC has to either 1) go to lower ranked schools offering athletic/merit scholarships or 2) forego athletic recruitment and just apply EA to state schools or shot gun in regular decision in hopes of merit.

Tonight I have to tell DC that they can't go to either of the SLAC's that they really want and have offers to. And we're not prepared with essays because we spent oodles of time on recruiting on top of an intensive year round sports schedule.

I hope this serves as a cautionary tale for donut hole parents of younger athletic recruits. Don't waste your time on recruiting unless you can either pay full price, your kid is good enough to get a hefty scholarship at one of the few good schools that offers athletic scholarships *and wants to go to these larger schools*, or you qualify for significant FA.

To OP: Thank you ! Great advice.

Important for non-athletes as well regarding affordability. State flagship honors colleges should be given consideration due to generous merit based scholarships versus being full-pay at an expensive, elite Top 15 or Top 20 school. Remember the grad school--especially professional schools like med school & law school--as waiting to place your student into massive debt with the lure of a potentially lucrative career.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than
an academic experience.

the issue is that any kid who can get a slot at Williams or Amherst (full pay) is never passing that up for a 25% athletic scholarship to a Patriot league school. Too
much difference in the perceived value of the degrees - abother thread on that lol

You don’t understand most athletes. The vast majority want to compete at a D1 level and would take Lehigh over Williams and Amherst with zero $$$s.

Most kids have little interest in schools that small no matter what.

Mine turned down Lehigh and two other Patriot League schools for a NESCAC. There was not much money so they chose the better overall academics and experience. Decision might have been different for an Ivy.

I call BS on this one. If your kid is a legit Patriot League athlete then they could have also played at one of the Ivies and nobody is choosing D3 NESCAC over D1 Ivy.

The overlap between the Ivy League, Patriot League, and NESCAC in non revenue sports particularly in Women’s sports is pretty large. The top 4 NESCAC (Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Tufts) are equal or better than Lafayette, Holy Cross, Loyola Maryland and American in many sports. Better than Columbia, Dartmouth and Brown in some as well.

It is very common to have competing offers and since there is little or no money involved you see a lot of kids go the NESCAC route. My kid had other D1 offers as well but the academics weren’t there. Impact player as a freshman, it’s been a great experience so far.

Curious as to which D-1 schools you are referring. I ask because I am consistently surprised by how little athletes and parents investigate the academic programs and options available (especially at Big Ten Conference member schools). Also, honors colleges are available at hundreds of D-1 universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So can I read this threat to believe that if I have a kid who is smart enough to get into a SLAC on academics, is a decent varsity athlete (certainly not a D1 recruit), and we are full pay, they have a chance at making the team?

Depends on the SLAC and the sport. I don’t think Williams and Amherst is in the cards for just decent. For track and XC, the Williams recruited athletes had D1 options if they wanted them.

true for about 2 kids per year at each school - those are the kids with D1 - Patriot League or Ivy - options

Every one of them could run D1 somewhere if they were more interested in D1 than
an academic experience.

the issue is that any kid who can get a slot at Williams or Amherst (full pay) is never passing that up for a 25% athletic scholarship to a Patriot league school. Too
much difference in the perceived value of the degrees - abother thread on that lol

You don’t understand most athletes. The vast majority want to compete at a D1 level and would take Lehigh over Williams and Amherst with zero $$$s.

Most kids have little interest in schools that small no matter what.

Mine turned down Lehigh and two other Patriot League schools for a NESCAC. There was not much money so they chose the better overall academics and experience. Decision might have been different for an Ivy.

I call BS on this one. If your kid is a legit Patriot League athlete then they could have also played at one of the Ivies and nobody is choosing D3 NESCAC over D1 Ivy.

The overlap between the Ivy League, Patriot League, and NESCAC in non revenue sports particularly in Women’s sports is pretty large. The top 4 NESCAC (Amherst, Middlebury, Williams, Tufts) are equal or better than Lafayette, Holy Cross, Loyola Maryland and American in many sports. Better than Columbia, Dartmouth and Brown in some as well.

It is very common to have competing offers and since there is little or no money involved you see a lot of kids go the NESCAC route. My kid had other D1 offers as well but the academics weren’t there. Impact player as a freshman, it’s been a great experience so far.

Curious as to which D-1 schools you are referring. I ask because I am consistently surprised by how little athletes and parents investigate the academic programs and options available (especially at Big Ten Conference member schools). Also, honors colleges are available at hundreds of D-1 universities.

Kid isn’t P4 level for athletics definitely mid-major level. Fordham, GW, Tulsa all good schools but she has tip top grades, test, rigor so that was her main focus. Loves her sport but wasn’t sure about D1 commitment level. Her cousin quit a D1 team and quite a few of her D1 friends aren’t really enjoying themselves. As I mentioned earlier, if she received an Ivy offer I think she would have taken it but without it she optimized her experience which is all we can ask for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Really hard to feel sorry for people when the athletic hook doesn’t work for them.

It’s not hard if you’re not an ahole because you know how much work the kid put into it.

Our kids who study hard, act in plays, win speech & debate competitions, tutor peers, and write for the paper also are kids who put a lot a lot of work in. they just don't feel as entitled to gain admission with lower academic standards!

why should students whose EC is sports gain admission with lower academic standards to play sports that don't bring any benefit to the school's other students? who watches cross-country, volleyball, squash, etc.?

at least diversity helps everyone by not having people in bubbles.

CMU theatre kids don’t need test scores or grades anywhere approaching the non-theatre students. This is true of other schools with strong arts programs.

If you think that athletic recruiting isn't a form of audition, you clearly haven't been through it.

Perhaps. But the chances of getting into the theater program at CMU are substantially less than the regular admissions percentages.

In addition, drama is an academic major at CMU, with a separate audition component to the admissions process. Not really a good comparison with athletics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow I can't imagine working hard for 4+ years to have to play D3 sports at a college on my own dime.

I was D1 and didn't have to pay for college. That is what my two kids are planning to do! D3 is a sad middle place where you still have to do all the work with none of the perks or benefits.

Really?? My kid is excited to play. Doesn't matter where or when. That she'll be able to do so at a great school that she will love is gravy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, what you're saying is that families should understand the cost picture before they begin looking at colleges they can't afford.

+2 Right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow I can't imagine working hard for 4+ years to have to play D3 sports at a college on my own dime.

I was D1 and didn't have to pay for college. That is what my two kids are planning to do! D3 is a sad middle place where you still have to do all the work with none of the perks or benefits.

Pretty sure of yourself I would say. Also, I can tell you that for most sports at most schools the perks are non existent.

[Anonymous]

lmao at the PP who “plans” to have his kids play D1. Good luck with that!