Who has changed their minds about religion on this forum?
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Anonymous
DP: Yes, and they are Catholic, so they also understand that heaven is not a place, but a state of ultimate union with God, and that God is, in essence, love, so heaven is basically becoming one with the ultimate goodness of all existence. So those who say the word "sky" is the same as heaven fundamentally misunderstand and mock what heaven is. Similarly, God is not a literal Father, so substituting "Mommy and Daddy" (as an adult) similar mocks those religions that believe in a spiritual God. Frankly, it seems that some atheists who post on here are super hung up on literal language and never really tried to learn what various religions actually believe. It's pretty lazy to stop at an image of a Dad with a long white beard sitting on a cloud. So lazy that it's bigotry. You don't have to believe anything, but such banal mockery is offensive. |
Anonymous
Thank you for trying to be reasonable. I appreciate that. The claim that all religious beliefs are irrational is indeed highly reductive, and also hotly disputed by many social scientists. Many colonialists had similar arrogant attitudes towards non-western lands and peoples they plundered. The mistreatment was justified by them being considered inferior for various reasons, including failure to employ Western forms of science and logic . Studies exploring the rationality of religious beliefs often focus on how personal experiences, community support, the perceived coherence of religious narratives with one's worldview, and the potential benefits of religious practices can contribute to a sense of rationality for believers, even when facing challenges from a purely scientific perspective. Anthropologists go much further in ethnographic studies that explore how non western religious beliefs were highly rational within the context of various non western societies. However, the debate on the rationality of religious beliefs remains complex and contested within philosophy and psychology. Just because you don’t hold religious beliefs does not Mean that all religious beliefs do not hold the quality of being based on, and in accordance with, a system of reason or logic. For example / Max Weber on the Rationality of the Religious https://shs.cairn.info/journal-l-annee-sociologique-2001-1-page-9?lang=en Anthropology of Religion https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/social-sciences/anthropology-of-religion Instrumentality, Empiricism, and Rationality in Nuosu Divination https://henrich.fas.harvard.edu/sites/scholar.harvard.edu/files/henrich/files/preprint.pdf |
Anonymous
Thank you. This is so well said. |
Anonymous
And I say that, in most cases, it isn't "banal mockery" it's simply accurate and it seems like mockery to religious people because they are accustomed to thinking about their religion with great reverence and formality. The terms Mommy and Daddy are used without mockery by most children when addressing their parents. By the way, I was raised Catholic and learned that heaven was a place that you went to after you died, if you died without mortal sin on your soul. I never used the word Dad when referring to God and didn't call my Dad "Father". It seemed odd. Still does. Nonetheless, this is the language we learned, and God was definitely my father in heaven and never my Daddy. I don't personally use the term "Sky Daddy" and can see how it seems mocking if you're not used to hearing it, but it is completely accurate. It's your Heavenly Father - your daddy who lives in the sky. |
Anonymous
Right. The fact that I do not believe does not mean that. The fact that there is insufficient evidence to warrant belief in a god is what means religious beliefs do not hold the quality of being based on, and in accordance with, a system of reason or logic. My lack of belief is a product of that, not the other way around. |
Anonymous
+1. A person can be very educated and intelligent, as religious pp obviously is, and still believe in a supernatural realm which at some level they must know can't exist. Still, with so many other intelligent people believing, or feigning to believe, it's hard to give it up for what seems like emptiness and becoming something so many have been taught to hate - an atheist. |
Anonymous
Right. It is setting aside that reasoning that makes it irrational in the moment. Not that the person is generally irrational. |
Anonymous
You are about two decades behind. In the early 2000s Dawkins, Hitchens, Harris et al launched new atheism movement which intended to flush out the remnants of Christianity in western liberal culture and usher in a new movement of rationality and scientific driven atheism. However what occurred in a largely agnostic Europe with the demise of Christianity was not a surge of rational atheism, it was an explosion of an even more fundamentalist theism, Islam. Even in the US we can see the impacts of this explosion in devout Muslims amongst a population of western atheists. One of the most famous atheists in the world has somewhat rebuked his fight for an atheist society, now saying that he considers himself a cultural Christian and prefers living in a culturally Christian country. |
Anonymous
WHo is this person? Please provide his name and a citation showing that he "has somewhat rebuked his fight for an atheist society...." [Frankly, I never knew about a famous atheist who was fighting for an atheist society.] By the way, I'd rather live in a "culturally Christian" country than, for instance, a fundamentalist islamic or fundamentalist Christian country. |
Anonymous
That’s a misleading post, dishonest even. Dawkins said that once in an interview and was talking about modern Christianity vs modern islam. It was not a compliment to Christianity, it was an insult to Islam “It’s even worse than Christianity!”. Either way it was an offhand comment in an interview and not a serious point. |
Anonymous
A religious person saying something misleading or dishonest? Shocker! |
Anonymous
Yes, I have always been agnostic; however this forum has really confirmed my beliefs that atheists are among the most insufferable of all beliefs. The only more insufferable group I have come across are fundamentalist Muslims; who are truly brain dead. Previously I considered switching from agnostic to atheist but both IRL and on the internet these people are so tedious and lack any understanding of evolution and history. No thanks. |
Anonymous
It’s nice to still have that choice isn’t it? Soon enough atheist Europe will not. And you have the Christians to thank for it. |
Anonymous
Of course it was a serious statement. Dawkins and Hitchens and all of the new atheists hate Islam more than Christianity and are not shy about saying so. Dawkins was responding to phenomena of churches being replaced by mosques and now realizes that his proselytizing for atheism was a big mistake and lamented Europe becoming less Christian. |
Anonymous
So, are you saying that it was Dawkins? I never heard that - please provide a link so we all can see it. If a relevant link isn't provided, I'll assume the above is a lie or an exaggeration. |