JMU vs. Colby

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Colby football make a bowl this year?

Does anyone at Colby care? Is anyone at Colby majoring in football?

I went to Wake during the Tim Duncan years. And the basketball Games were fu. But, I have certainly never been asked in a job interview whether wake made the Sweet 16 while I was there.

I would hope that whether you spend 4 years of your life and $120k for JMU or 3x that for Colby, your decision making is a little deeper than “will this school go to a bowl game”.

22,000 kids at JMU care.

Good. I hope they enjoy watching the bowl game on TV. I also hope they have parents that have more sense than to spend over 100k based on football scores, rather than education and outcomes. Given how much college costs, if you are basing your choice on the football team’s record, send your kid to a community college and use your substantial savings to buy season tickets for your kids favorite pro sports team. You’ll still come out ahead.

PS— I went to a college with decent sports in an actual real conference (not a regional whatever conference like JMU). And I guarantee that a significant number of kids at JMU don’t care.

Also, you say 22,000
JMU kids over and over, and think it’s a flex. I hear 22,000 kids at a meh regional college and think— wow— tier 3 grad students means a bunch of classes taught by Tier 3 TAs. But hey— at least they re winning football games? Seriously?
.

You insult JMU over and over, and think it's a flex.

No, I send my kids to colleges where the priority is education and they are taught by Professors in small classes. And I know it’s a flex. Sorry if JMU’s TA centric education weak in comparison.

But really, once you say the best reason to chose a college is its football team, the debate on relative academic merit is over. Unless your kid is a starter on the football team with a chance of going pro, going to a bowl game has zero ROI.

DP. Another poster already corrected you, but here are some more stats for you to stew about. You seem like a highly unpleasant person.

Student/faculty ratio: 17:1
Average class size: 25 students
Classes with fewer than 50 students: 89%
Classes taught by professors: 98%
https://www.jmu.edu/about/fact-and-figures.shtml#:~:text=Student%2Ffaculty%20ratio%3A%2017%3A1%20Average%20class%20size%3A%2025%20students,50%20students%3A%2089%25%20Classes%20taught%20by%20professors%3A%2098%25

Remind me, what % of “professors” who we’re actually able to get PhDs? Because I’m not sure that a BA/MA is better than a PhD candidate under the supervision of a PhD.

Do you have a PhD?

The PhD discussion is a distraction. JMU has many practical offerings in nursing, business, etc where there are many useful classes taught by folks without PhDs.

Much better to take a finance class from an adjunct working in the field vs a PhD with no practical experience.

A true comparison would only look at classes offered by both.

What is measured is “PhD or terminal degree in their field”. It’s like ticking the “most rigorous” box on a college app. In whatever field, do they have the highest degree? Good colleges report this number as 95%+. Colby and WM were cited. But check ant T50 National LAC or U. A BA/MA/ RN/ Registered Dietician, etc shouldn’t be teaching at a real college. And certainly wouldn’t be researching.

Why is JMU so low?

Meh, this really isn't a big deal. -dp

It’s only a big deal if you want to insist JMU isn’t TA dependent (like most large Us) and you keep saying 98% of their classes are taught by professors. If you are going to make this point, be honest about the fact that at most good colleges, 95%+ of professors already have a terminal degree.

At JMU, they are having, say, a Communications MA teach 2 classes as the “instructor of record” and calling him a professor because he also took some education classes.

https://www.jmu.edu/commstudies/ma/assistantships.shtm

Psychology PhD candidates can be TAs for 3 years

https://www.jmu.edu/academic-affairs/_documents/uga-guidelines-sample-agreement.pdf

Kinesiology is dependent on TAs

https://www.jmu.edu/chbs/kinesiology/assistantships.shtml

https://www.jmu.edu/academic-affairs/_documents/uga-guidelines-sample-agreement.pdf

Etc, etc.



Like many State Us, JMU is also TA dependent, although it appears they classify their TAs as “professors” to pretend otherwise, and then take the rankings hit down the road for their “professors” not having completed their PhDs.

Now that USNWR no longer measures undergrad teaching as a factor in rankings, I expect JMU will stop classifying TAs as professors and we will be shocked to discover that many intro classes are taught by TAs. And 95%+ of their actual professors do have terminal degrees.

Why does this matter, when JMU is doing exactly what all the other large VA State schools do. First, because someone on this thread insists JMU barely. uses TAs at all. That’s just not true. And second, because JMU is manipulating data to say they don’t use TAs. Which isn’t being honest with potential students, who may not dig deeper or notice how low the percentage of “professors” with terminal degrees is.

Cite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is no contest, Colby by far. My DS went to JMU and it was like a glorified high school, where many professors couldn't care less about your kid's success. There is little help offered by the career center unless your DC majored in something marketable - computer science, nursing - in which case they don't need much help because the job market is good.

Colby is a very wealthy school that is invested in its graduates' success. My DD was recruited there and we visited - the campus is somewhat isolated but the school's infrastructure is very nice. Good dorms, food, and very active career center.

Please don't pick JMU over Colby, unless your kid is a hard-partying frat kid who has a post-college job lined up in his family's business in Roanoke.

Roanoke? More kids at JMU from NY and NJ than Roanoke.

As for outcomes no difference despite your squeals. So much for the “Wall Street Connections”:

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=James_Madison_University_(JMU)/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Colby_College/Salary

+1

+2
Another interesting fact from those links: Colby's ROI is 268. JMU's is 117. Too funny.

Really, you need to look a the College Scorecard from the DOE as it has the best data:

Colby: Average annual cost: $17,739 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $84,482
JMU: Average annual cost: $22,431 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $65,172

If you qualify for need-based aid (which many do, considering the average net cost is $17,73), Colby will have a higher ROI. Nursing and STEM majors at JMU pay higher than the median overall.

Links to both:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University

This information is from kids taking out federal-subsidized loans, so these are not kids of rich parents.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Colby is here:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?161086-Colby-College

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did Colby football make a bowl this year?

Does anyone at Colby care? Is anyone at Colby majoring in football?

I went to Wake during the Tim Duncan years. And the basketball Games were fu. But, I have certainly never been asked in a job interview whether wake made the Sweet 16 while I was there.

I would hope that whether you spend 4 years of your life and $120k for JMU or 3x that for Colby, your decision making is a little deeper than “will this school go to a bowl game”.

22,000 kids at JMU care.

Good. I hope they enjoy watching the bowl game on TV. I also hope they have parents that have more sense than to spend over 100k based on football scores, rather than education and outcomes. Given how much college costs, if you are basing your choice on the football team’s record, send your kid to a community college and use your substantial savings to buy season tickets for your kids favorite pro sports team. You’ll still come out ahead.

PS— I went to a college with decent sports in an actual real conference (not a regional whatever conference like JMU). And I guarantee that a significant number of kids at JMU don’t care.

Also, you say 22,000
JMU kids over and over, and think it’s a flex. I hear 22,000 kids at a meh regional college and think— wow— tier 3 grad students means a bunch of classes taught by Tier 3 TAs. But hey— at least they re winning football games? Seriously?
.

You insult JMU over and over, and think it's a flex.

No, I send my kids to colleges where the priority is education and they are taught by Professors in small classes. And I know it’s a flex. Sorry if JMU’s TA centric education weak in comparison.

But really, once you say the best reason to chose a college is its football team, the debate on relative academic merit is over. Unless your kid is a starter on the football team with a chance of going pro, going to a bowl game has zero ROI.

DP. Another poster already corrected you, but here are some more stats for you to stew about. You seem like a highly unpleasant person.

Student/faculty ratio: 17:1
Average class size: 25 students
Classes with fewer than 50 students: 89%
Classes taught by professors: 98%
https://www.jmu.edu/about/fact-and-figures.shtml#:~:text=Student%2Ffaculty%20ratio%3A%2017%3A1%20Average%20class%20size%3A%2025%20students,50%20students%3A%2089%25%20Classes%20taught%20by%20professors%3A%2098%25

Remind me, what % of “professors” who we’re actually able to get PhDs? Because I’m not sure that a BA/MA is better than a PhD candidate under the supervision of a PhD.

Do you have a PhD?

The PhD discussion is a distraction. JMU has many practical offerings in nursing, business, etc where there are many useful classes taught by folks without PhDs.

Much better to take a finance class from an adjunct working in the field vs a PhD with no practical experience.

A true comparison would only look at classes offered by both.

What is measured is “PhD or terminal degree in their field”. It’s like ticking the “most rigorous” box on a college app. In whatever field, do they have the highest degree? Good colleges report this number as 95%+. Colby and WM were cited. But check ant T50 National LAC or U. A BA/MA/ RN/ Registered Dietician, etc shouldn’t be teaching at a real college. And certainly wouldn’t be researching.

Why is JMU so low?

Meh, this really isn't a big deal. -dp

It’s only a big deal if you want to insist JMU isn’t TA dependent (like most large Us) and you keep saying 98% of their classes are taught by professors. If you are going to make this point, be honest about the fact that at most good colleges, 95%+ of professors already have a terminal degree.

At JMU, they are having, say, a Communications MA teach 2 classes as the “instructor of record” and calling him a professor because he also took some education classes.

https://www.jmu.edu/commstudies/ma/assistantships.shtm

Psychology PhD candidates can be TAs for 3 years

https://www.jmu.edu/academic-affairs/_documents/uga-guidelines-sample-agreement.pdf

Kinesiology is dependent on TAs

https://www.jmu.edu/chbs/kinesiology/assistantships.shtml

https://www.jmu.edu/academic-affairs/_documents/uga-guidelines-sample-agreement.pdf

Etc, etc.



Like many State Us, JMU is also TA dependent, although it appears they classify their TAs as “professors” to pretend otherwise, and then take the rankings hit down the road for their “professors” not having completed their PhDs.

Now that USNWR no longer measures undergrad teaching as a factor in rankings, I expect JMU will stop classifying TAs as professors and we will be shocked to discover that many intro classes are taught by TAs. And 95%+ of their actual professors do have terminal degrees.

Why does this matter, when JMU is doing exactly what all the other large VA State schools do. First, because someone on this thread insists JMU barely. uses TAs at all. That’s just not true. And second, because JMU is manipulating data to say they don’t use TAs. Which isn’t being honest with potential students, who may not dig deeper or notice how low the percentage of “professors” with terminal degrees is.

Here is some information about all the TAs Colby uses. Looks like CS is almost entirely taught by TAs.

TA Hours: All TA sessions will be in person in Fall 2023. We have evening TAs from Sunday to Wednesday weekly from the second week (that is the week starting September 11) except during the fall and Thanksgiving breaks. Please find the TA schedule and Windows & Writing supports here.
https://cs.colby.edu/courses/F23/TAschedule.pdf

[Anonymous]

Colby refers to their TAs as "Learning Assistants" - probably so that anyone researching the school wouldn't easily see that they very much rely on TAs (sorry - "LAs").
https://web.colby.edu/talk/

[Anonymous]

Here are all the classes at Colby that rely on TAs:

https://web.colby.edu/talk/talk/history/

[Anonymous]

Here's the application to be a TA (LA) at Colby:

https://web.colby.edu/talk/apply/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Colby refers to their TAs as "Learning Assistants" - probably so that anyone researching the school wouldn't easily see that they very much rely on TAs (sorry - "LAs").
https://web.colby.edu/talk/

I assume you realize that the assistants at schools like Colby are actual assistants. They do not teach the courses the way TAs do at large universities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colby refers to their TAs as "Learning Assistants" - probably so that anyone researching the school wouldn't easily see that they very much rely on TAs (sorry - "LAs").
https://web.colby.edu/talk/

I assume you realize that the assistants at schools like Colby are actual assistants. They do not teach the courses the way TAs do at large universities.

Sure, Jan. Keep telling yourself that, as you desperately post, trying to pretend Colby doesn't use TAs.

[Anonymous]

You coudn't pay me to spend 4 years in Siberia with a bunch of New England rednecks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colby refers to their TAs as "Learning Assistants" - probably so that anyone researching the school wouldn't easily see that they very much rely on TAs (sorry - "LAs").
https://web.colby.edu/talk/

I assume you realize that the assistants at schools like Colby are actual assistants. They do not teach the courses the way TAs do at large universities.

Like the 2% of courses taught by TA's at JMU?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is no contest, Colby by far. My DS went to JMU and it was like a glorified high school, where many professors couldn't care less about your kid's success. There is little help offered by the career center unless your DC majored in something marketable - computer science, nursing - in which case they don't need much help because the job market is good.

Colby is a very wealthy school that is invested in its graduates' success. My DD was recruited there and we visited - the campus is somewhat isolated but the school's infrastructure is very nice. Good dorms, food, and very active career center.

Please don't pick JMU over Colby, unless your kid is a hard-partying frat kid who has a post-college job lined up in his family's business in Roanoke.

Roanoke? More kids at JMU from NY and NJ than Roanoke.

As for outcomes no difference despite your squeals. So much for the “Wall Street Connections”:

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=James_Madison_University_(JMU)/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Colby_College/Salary

+1

+2
Another interesting fact from those links: Colby's ROI is 268. JMU's is 117. Too funny.

Really, you need to look a the College Scorecard from the DOE as it has the best data:

Colby: Average annual cost: $17,739 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $84,482
JMU: Average annual cost: $22,431 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $65,172

If you qualify for need-based aid (which many do, considering the average net cost is $17,73), Colby will have a higher ROI. Nursing and STEM majors at JMU pay higher than the median overall.

Links to both:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University

This information is from kids taking out federal-subsidized loans, so these are not kids of rich parents.

We need to look at this because it tells a better story you like

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is no contest, Colby by far. My DS went to JMU and it was like a glorified high school, where many professors couldn't care less about your kid's success. There is little help offered by the career center unless your DC majored in something marketable - computer science, nursing - in which case they don't need much help because the job market is good.

Colby is a very wealthy school that is invested in its graduates' success. My DD was recruited there and we visited - the campus is somewhat isolated but the school's infrastructure is very nice. Good dorms, food, and very active career center.

Please don't pick JMU over Colby, unless your kid is a hard-partying frat kid who has a post-college job lined up in his family's business in Roanoke.

Roanoke? More kids at JMU from NY and NJ than Roanoke.

As for outcomes no difference despite your squeals. So much for the “Wall Street Connections”:

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=James_Madison_University_(JMU)/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Colby_College/Salary

+1

+2
Another interesting fact from those links: Colby's ROI is 268. JMU's is 117. Too funny.

Oops.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is no contest, Colby by far. My DS went to JMU and it was like a glorified high school, where many professors couldn't care less about your kid's success. There is little help offered by the career center unless your DC majored in something marketable - computer science, nursing - in which case they don't need much help because the job market is good.

Colby is a very wealthy school that is invested in its graduates' success. My DD was recruited there and we visited - the campus is somewhat isolated but the school's infrastructure is very nice. Good dorms, food, and very active career center.

Please don't pick JMU over Colby, unless your kid is a hard-partying frat kid who has a post-college job lined up in his family's business in Roanoke.

Roanoke? More kids at JMU from NY and NJ than Roanoke.

As for outcomes no difference despite your squeals. So much for the “Wall Street Connections”:

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=James_Madison_University_(JMU)/Salary

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/School=Colby_College/Salary

+1

+2
Another interesting fact from those links: Colby's ROI is 268. JMU's is 117. Too funny.

Really, you need to look a the College Scorecard from the DOE as it has the best data:

Colby: Average annual cost: $17,739 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $84,482
JMU: Average annual cost: $22,431 (after need/merit aid) and median overall earnings: $65,172

If you qualify for need-based aid (which many do, considering the average net cost is $17,73), Colby will have a higher ROI. Nursing and STEM majors at JMU pay higher than the median overall.

Links to both:

https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University
https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/school/?232423-James-Madison-University

This information is from kids taking out federal-subsidized loans, so these are not kids of rich parents.

We need to look at this because it tells a better story you like

No…it provides the most complete data. You can search by different majors for each school.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Colby refers to their TAs as "Learning Assistants" - probably so that anyone researching the school wouldn't easily see that they very much rely on TAs (sorry - "LAs").
https://web.colby.edu/talk/

I assume you realize that the assistants at schools like Colby are actual assistants. They do not teach the courses the way TAs do at large universities.

Sure, Jan. Keep telling yourself that, as you desperately post, trying to pretend Colby doesn't use TAs.

100% of all colleges use TAs…I don’t understand the current debate.