Disappointed by TJ decision?

[Anonymous]

The “fourth tier” posters remind me of Trump. People say it. Many, many people. Fourth tier. The real superstars are staying at Carson. Spread the word. (I look forward to your justifications in four years about how Harvard is a dump for the stupidest people, the very stupidest. Fifth tier, they say. None of the top shelf students got in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is going to post names here I think. It has already been posted on here that kids who made USAJMO in 7th grade were not accepted in previous years. I know one student who was rejected this year, not waitlisted, who will be representing Virginia at a well known national STEM contest. I have heard the same happened with winners in another prominent STEM contest, but do not know names. It would be easy for me to find out, but again I wouldn't be posting them.

JMO is cool. But we all know that science fairs are just parent frauds. Plus, I will put a question mark on all the contest winners in the past 2 years as those contests were most likely remote. And people do cheat.

Eh, Remember the TJ essay's for the last 2 years were remote from home too. That too without Cameras or Microphone!!! No proof that the essays etc. (major criteria for selection) were written by the candidate.

This year essay was in person at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

#veryfakenews Stop getting your "facts" from BackDoorKaren.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

They pick the top 1.5% based on a rubric that includes grades, standardized test scores, and essays. This is similar to college admissions. From this they determine the top kids and invite them. It's simple. Sure, some people would instead define merit as those who can buy access to the test from a prep center but most of us think this new system yields better results than the previous pay to play system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

They pick the top 1.5% based on a rubric that includes grades, standardized test scores, and essays. This is similar to college admissions. From this they determine the top kids and invite them. It's simple. Sure, some people would instead define merit as those who can buy access to the test from a prep center but most of us think this new system yields better results than the previous pay to play system.

Some parents feel they know better, but since they lack access to the data, it's just based on their gut. They feel they know who the top kids are and know best even without real information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

They pick the top 1.5% based on a rubric that includes grades, standardized test scores, and essays. This is similar to college admissions. From this they determine the top kids and invite them. It's simple. Sure, some people would instead define merit as those who can buy access to the test from a prep center but most of us think this new system yields better results than the previous pay to play system.

Either the poster is a math illiterate or intentionally lying or ill-informed or more likely all of them.

1. There are no standardized test scores in the new process. The tests are what have been eliminated. There are no new standardized tests introduced.

2. Grades would seemingly be a good one to use. But in middle school for 1 year and with grade inflation they are going to a student pool where more than 2x the number of seats available have a GPA of 4. Hard to differentiate between 4.0 vs 4.0.

3. Essays. What a joke! They are so contrived and narrowly defined ("portrait of a graduate") that everyone has canned answers for these.

The result is it is really hard to differentiate between students. So it becomes closer to a lottery. Which is the intent.

I agree completely that many changes are needed to admissions. I think Curie is a useless waste of money and children's time. It kills children's passion.

But the admissions changes were not carefully thought out. Easy things like teacher recommendations would have fixed a vast portion of this problem. But FCPS did not really want to identify children who would benefit from TJ. They just wanted to show their woke credentials. All those who support them in this are those who should be kept far far away from children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

They pick the top 1.5% based on a rubric that includes grades, standardized test scores, and essays. This is similar to college admissions. From this they determine the top kids and invite them. It's simple. Sure, some people would instead define merit as those who can buy access to the test from a prep center but most of us think this new system yields better results than the previous pay to play system.

You are not “most of us,” and it’s a joke to think FCPS - which routinely mismanages some of its most basic functions - can replicate the equivalent of a prestigious college’s sophisticated admissions department.

[Anonymous]

I have heard some superstars, who were winning STEM awards at the state level, were getting rejected. And it had nothing to do with bad grades as others here like to claim.

This was true at our feeder school.

Same here. All kids know it. 7th graders are even told not to mention any STEM achievements in essays. The so called “top 1.5%” is fake when there is no clear standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have heard some superstars, who were winning STEM awards at the state level, were getting rejected. And it had nothing to do with bad grades as others here like to claim.

This was true at our feeder school.

Same here. All kids know it. 7th graders are even told not to mention any STEM achievements in essays. The so called “top 1.5%” is fake when there is no clear standards.

+1. Also know a kid from traditional feeder school who is a STEM super star with multiple awards at regional, state, and national level. Was put to "wait pool".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From previous discussion, parents complain that under current admission policy, your child gets a better chance from non feeder schools or less represented schools. Now parents from non feeder schools are complaining that they should get more seats.

The last thing that the admissions people want is overachieving high stats UMC kids at less represented schools getting in. Undoubtedly, there are plenty of kids like that in any pyramid because most of the time, those are the kids and associated parents that care about things like TJ in large numbers. So you'll see those kids get passed over for a FARMs kid with reasonably good stats to give more opportunity to URMs.

The top 1.5 has very little to do with grades or even classes taken as long as they meet that low standard of 3.5, Algebra in 8th, and 1 or 2 honors classes (young scholars only need honors science, no need for honors english for them). The math levels of last years class show this.

Previously, top students get in. Now, considering the seats taken by the underrepresented groups, I thought that you have to be the very top students to get in. But it turns out that none of the very top students from our school get in this year. So I guess this is how it works. They mean to reject the very top students by making the selection criteria mysterious. They don’t care TJ’s reputation.

And yet, many pathetic parents are posting sour grapes about how their kids didn’t get in. If Tj is so horrible now, rest easy, you have nothing to worry about. Except plenty of smart kids did get in, and will attend. And so TJ will continue to be just fine. The problem is obviously many of you parents. Some of whom are having trouble posting anything intelligible. Maybe therein lies the problem with your kid?

That's just it, TJ still has excellent opportunities, classes not available at base school. It is the selection of lower caliber students that makes the school lower quality.

In some alternate reality, that may be true, but here they're selecting the highest-caliber students, which are different than the ones who used to get because of test buying. Sadly, some still believe that equates to merit.

So true but the sour grapes posters will claim otherwise.

No, there are those who do not believe the new process is "selecting the highest-caliber students."

Only because they lack actual data and enjoy feeling aggrieved.

I have actual data at my school. Not on all students, but I can definitely say they got it wrong at our school, top students being rejected in favor of at best 3rd tier students, and really 4th tier. It is not close.

I feel compelled to ask how it is that you know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that those students who were admitted are "3rd or fourth tier". Do you actually know what those students have accomplished? Do you feel like you can confidently speak to the quality of their ENTIRE academic profile? And if so, why on earth do you have that information?

To go into detail on this would reveal individual students. But yes, I am confident of 3rd or 4th tier, and that higher caliber kids were rejected.
Note when I say 3rd or 4th tier, I don't mean 100 in tier 1, 100 in tier 2, etc, but ability levels. There are very few in tier 1 or 2, and I am not confident I know everyone in these tiers at the school. It may be the kids who I think should have gotten in are not the top students, though I would be surprised. But I know they are higher caliber than the ones who got in, multiple tiers above. Also, some of these top students didn't even get on to the waitlist, which makes me give some weight to the idea that they are deliberately rejecting top students. I suppose it is possible the student put in the essay that he or she does not want to go to TJ, but I find this extremely unlikely.

That's a non-answer. I have every confidence that there are a small group of students about whom you know an incredible amount within your school. But I strongly - STRONGLY - doubt that you have the same sort of knowledge about the students who did get in. They just don't happen to belong to your small cohort.

It is a small cohort who got in from this school. We are not talking about Carson or Longfellow.

Doesn't matter. You can't possibly know about the complete academic profile of those students that you're trashing unless you're stalking them to a level that would be highly problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No one is going to post names here I think. It has already been posted on here that kids who made USAJMO in 7th grade were not accepted in previous years. I know one student who was rejected this year, not waitlisted, who will be representing Virginia at a well known national STEM contest. I have heard the same happened with winners in another prominent STEM contest, but do not know names. It would be easy for me to find out, but again I wouldn't be posting them.

JMO is cool. But we all know that science fairs are just parent frauds. Plus, I will put a question mark on all the contest winners in the past 2 years as those contests were most likely remote. And people do cheat.

Eh, Remember the TJ essay's for the last 2 years were remote from home too. That too without Cameras or Microphone!!! No proof that the essays etc. (major criteria for selection) were written by the candidate.

I wonder which cohort would be MOST likely to have their parents cheat on an essay submission....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have heard some superstars, who were winning STEM awards at the state level, were getting rejected. And it had nothing to do with bad grades as others here like to claim.

This was true at our feeder school.

Same here. All kids know it. 7th graders are even told not to mention any STEM achievements in essays. The so called “top 1.5%” is fake when there is no clear standards.

+1. Also know a kid from traditional feeder school who is a STEM super star with multiple awards at regional, state, and national level. Was put to "wait pool".

That didn't happen. But congrats on driving your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:TJ is becoming a bit like the Ivies. Everyone knows the strongest kids aren’t necessarily going there any longer, but we still want a standard of excellence so we continue to pay attention even when it no longer warrants it. I do understand, though, if your alternative is a school like Lewis or Mount Vernon that it might look good. But otherwise it’s starting to get kind of tacky, like an overpriced handbag or car that’s no better than plenty of other lower cost alternatives.

And yet we are 17 pages into commentary about it.

That was PP’s point. People post constantly about TJ because they are used to doing so, even though it’s not that special now. Carry on for another 17 pages.

I would argue that it's more special now that they've eliminated the people who wouldn't have been able to get in without all the test buying.

From what others have said, something like 33% of the students in the past had early access to the admission test.

At least now there's a level playing field.

True, but there are a lot of parents who resent these changes and will continue to foster a false narrative. They preferred a system that favored those who could buy their way into TJ.

Suggesting the most qualified kids are getting into TJ now is an even more false narrative.

They pick the top 1.5% based on a rubric that includes grades, standardized test scores, and essays. This is similar to college admissions. From this they determine the top kids and invite them. It's simple. Sure, some people would instead define merit as those who can buy access to the test from a prep center but most of us think this new system yields better results than the previous pay to play system.

I know it's a rigorous process and many parents resent these changes because they are less able to game it like they did with the test buying.