Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.
Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if those officers are officially off-duty and doing that as a second job.
The task force wants fewer police in Silver Spring, not more. It’s clearly stated in their proposal. They suggest a 50% reduction in staffing in Silver Spring to reduce police interactions with the public. I don’t think you’re getting your parking garage officers with the current county exec.
Do they drive MoCo police cars, wear uniforms and carry guns and badges while doing stuff like this off-duty?
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.
Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if those officers are officially off-duty and doing that as a second job.
The task force wants fewer police in Silver Spring, not more. It’s clearly stated in their proposal. They suggest a 50% reduction in staffing in Silver Spring to reduce police interactions with the public. I don’t think you’re getting your parking garage officers with the current county exec.
Do they drive MoCo police cars, wear uniforms and carry guns and badges while doing stuff like this off-duty?
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
As a white dude when I was in my 20s I was constantly getting pulled over by cops. I drove a crap car, but was a bit of a free spirit with a big shaggy beard and long hair and usually wearing a tie dye, so I guess somehow in their minds that profiled to someone who would likely have drugs or be up to some kind of trouble. Sure, I occasionally smoked a little weed socially, but I was a good kid, trying to bust my ass to pay my way through college and generally get myself situated a little better in life. I can't even count how many times I was stopped, presumably for "pretext" - many dozens. I even remember one time where I came across the bridge into a town where I knew the cops were jerks, I was already going 25, the speed limit was 25, I saw the cops sitting there waiting even before I got off the bridge, I slowed to 20, they still pulled me over and tried to claim I was "speeding" and wanted to search the car. I didn't have anything - hell I was broke and a bag of weed would have been a luxury. So yeah, some white people also get targeted for "pretext" all the time. But luckily I was able to fight and get out of most of the tickets I got. That's the part where POCs probably wouldn't have fared as well as I did. I also used to routinely have salespeople following me around asking "can I help you" but not in a good way, letting me know they were watching me, as if I was some kind of sketchy character. A lot of people are just shitty judgy a-holes, including cops.
The white dudes I know with long hair and tie dye, driving crap cars, pulled over on pretexts like "bloodshot eyes" or "looking tired", were/are worried about spending a night in jail, getting charged, etc. But not about getting killed. Seems like a meaningful difference.
Almost no one is injured by police officers. It's a very low incidence, high consequence event. Like plane crashes. You hear about them because they are horrible. Not because they are ubiquitous.
Police officers shot and killed 1,047 people in 2021 in the US, and for every one person they shoot and kill, they shoot and don't kill another five people.
There were 15 fatal plane crashes in the WORLD in 2021, accounting for 134 deaths.
Perhaps that would seem like a lot if there weren’t over 330,000,000 Americans living in this country. That’s .00000317272%.
That also doesn’t take into account that officers work in the most heavily armed country, with more guns than people.
It also doesn’t take into account how often those 1,047 people were armed and threatening/hurting others.
Planes don’t have bad intentions. Sometimes, people do.
Including police officers. Police shootings in the US actually are ubiquitous. The threat is always there, whether or not it's actually carried out. You shouldn't minimize it.
So you prefer I use hyperbole? No, they are NOT ubiquitous. Literally each of the data points on this thread points to the fact they are not a common occurrence.
It is quite possible to care about police injustice/brutality without fictionalizing it.
It quite rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. Police being shot in moco is quite fantastical acting like it’s a threat is just fiction. I like to look at data.
You are correct. It is rare for a cop to be shot or stabbed. That’s why no poster on this entire thread has even brought that up as a data point. Were you trying to draw a comparison? To what?
And as the PP asked: what does this line of questioning have to do with the death in DTSS?
It’s rare. Rare things happen. Move on.
Pedestrian deaths are even rarer than homicides. Should we move on from those without action or should we be using all available tools to prevent them?
I have a proposal, as a person living on the Purple Line alignment and across Wayne Ave from elementary and middle schools. Take the two MoCo police who are currently performing crossing guard duty at our un-crosswalked/no-beg-light, no stop light location, twice a day EVERY DAY for school walkers. Put those two guys, who are lovely folks and clearly capable of much more specialized work, on patrol in the goddamned parking garage. Install a light, a speeding camera and a pedestrian button at our intersection. Problem(s) closer to being solved.
Also close clubs 3-6 am. It ain’t rocket science. (But note that most of these recent events haven’t been in those hours.)
I wouldn’t be surprised if those officers are officially off-duty and doing that as a second job.
The task force wants fewer police in Silver Spring, not more. It’s clearly stated in their proposal. They suggest a 50% reduction in staffing in Silver Spring to reduce police interactions with the public. I don’t think you’re getting your parking garage officers with the current county exec.
Do they drive MoCo police cars, wear uniforms and carry guns and badges while doing stuff like this off-duty?
Yes.
That’s kind of screwed up.
Why? It’s secondary employment, and subject to strict ethics standards. But it’s a way to augment police presence in the community.
Unless you mean it’s screwed up that people and companies with privilege can pay for better safety? That’s what will happen more and more as police numbers dwindle.
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Here's the thing. The majority of Black people want police in their neighborhoods. They want professional policing, of course. They want safe policing. But they know removing police is a recipe for disaster.
There is a very small, but extremely loud minority, comprised mostly of WHITE voices, who want to remove police in the name of equity. They are just very misguided. And at the end of the day, they aren't the ones who suffer when police are removed (or just leave).
I find interesting, however, that this seems to be the first non-Hispanic white murder victim in the county, and NOW politicians are listening.
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Here's the thing. The majority of Black people want police in their neighborhoods. They want professional policing, of course. They want safe policing. But they know removing police is a recipe for disaster.
There is a very small, but extremely loud minority, comprised mostly of WHITE voices, who want to remove police in the name of equity. They are just very misguided. And at the end of the day, they aren't the ones who suffer when police are removed (or just leave).
I find interesting, however, that this seems to be the first non-Hispanic white murder victim in the county, and NOW politicians are listening.
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.
Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.
It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.
Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.
BTW, I have had more times that I have been pulled over since then. The three I first described were all from when I first moved here. Since then, I was pulled over for being passed due on the emissions test (I never got the notice). Another time, one of my headlights was out and I hadn't realized it. Oh, and once in downtown SS, a cop even stopped me for jaywalking and gave me a lecture, even though the two-lane road was totally free from cars. No tickets for any of these.
Can you provide a cite to any instance in Moco where a black person complied with officer instructions, wasn't displaying a weapon, and died?
I know there's a narrative that white people are not pulled over for stupid stuff, but it happens. I don't care.
You stayed safe because you’re White and didn’t fight. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts and even video that show Black, Latino, and Indigenous drivers not fighting and being beaten or even killed.
I know it wasn’t in MoCo, but surely you haven’t already forgotten about George Floyd? POC can do everything right and still end up dead.
“Everything right?”
“Hoop” narcotics?
Pass counterfeit money?
Fight the police?
George Floyd died of an overdose and his own stupidity, assisted on his way by at least one stupid cop.
What do you blame Philando Castile for?
Deaths like Floyd and Castile are of course tragic and should not have happened but that’s two in the past several years. How many more people have been senselessly killed by gun violence like the father in the SS parking garage? Just because Castile and Floyd died unnecessarily, that doesn’t mean reducing the number of police is the solution.
SS is quickly going to become a place that most people don’t want to visit anymore. And that’s a shame. But again, keep convincing yourself that the police are the problem. The criminals have totally won this battle and are probably overjoyed that regular folks are advocating on their behalf by ensuring that there are not enough police to keep up with them.
I clicked on a couple of folks on that page, and their deaths had nothing to do with police officers. So if your point was that we need more police to prevent these senseless deaths, I totally agree.
They were all murdered by police
Please go back and review the site. That’s not the purpose, even according to the description at the very top. Many deaths on that page are not police related.
It is still a tragic list.
You are wrong they were all killed by law enforcement…
From the 1st page:
This highlights Black people killed by U.S. law enforcement
You didn’t read (or copy to DCUM) the rest of that sentence. It is a list:
This work in progress highlights Black people killed by U.S. law enforcement (★), civilians (⦿), unknown (◇)
Many of the names have the circle and diamond shapes next to them, which are NOT law enforcement deaths.
You said black parole for by police because they fight.
I post a website that shows that is not true because many were innocently shopping or sleeping on their couch.
You say my link is meaning less because some on the list were not killed by cops.
Look at the ones with stars. Were there any black innocent jon violent people murdered by police. Because you seem to think black people deserve to die if they own a gun, refuse to be illegally detained, as why they are being arrested, etc
So again do you see any innocent people who were completely docile that were murdered by cops on the link?
I will not discuss this with you. I posted an objective statement that contained absolutely no opinion. It was simply clarifying something you posted using language from your link. Everything you typed here is from your perception or belief of me and nothing more.
I’ll take that as a white flag 🏳️.
From you Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.
Once again… I made no opinion statement. All I have posted on this entire thread is 100% backed-up fact. (I also don’t understand your point here?)
I did ask the question above, which appears to have gone unanswered. What do you think the county should do about crime in DTSS?
You seem to ignore the fact you said black people fight tfat is why they get killed. I list tons of black peoples that did not fight and got killed and you only answer is I won’t discuss that.
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
It’s actually the opposite.
Watch “the 13th” or read about the disaster of “3 strikes you are out”. Heavy policing has destroyed communities.
Anonymous wrote:The police have got to do a better job in DTSS. It seems to attract youth from neighboring areas and shootings have gotten out of control. Years ago, it wasn't like this. It's a shame and I feel sorry for the businesses that will suffer when people don't feel safe going there anymore.
There have only been a few people shot in DTSS in the last few years. Lots of other crimes, lots of gunshots at night with no one reported hit, but there isn’t an epidemic of people being shot.
And what do you mean about attracting youth from neighboring areas? Bringing in people who don’t live in 20910 is a goal of the area. 20910 residents can’t support businesses on our own. We want people to come from all over to shop, eat, and enjoy entertainment and recreation venues. Most youth are not committing any crimes. They are however, often working class and Black or Brown which triggers the gentrifiers. Not louder than WJ and Churchill kids at Montgomery Mall. Not ruder than kids at Whitman, Wootten,or MoCo’s private HSs.
WJ, Churchill, Wooten, Whitman, and private school kids are not shooting people in parking garage stairwells.
Neither are my sons and their friends who like to go to SS to movies and the like.
Are you afraid that they may be victims of violence going out in SS? Do you give them any advice to take precautions?
DP. My son, daughter, and their friends hang out in DTSS 2-3 times a week. I worry more that the boys (all AA and African honor students at Blair) will be harassed or physically harmed by the police than I worry they will be robbed, stabbed, or shot by criminals.
^^^ this is why people should probably just move if they dont agree with reduced policing. MoCo is absolutely enacting a plan to further reduce police contact with residents in the less wealthy areas. As you can see, this is a welcome measure by many residents. I sold my house and left. It will only get worse from here in terms of crime. But thats what democracy us about. The people have spoken.
They are making police contact equal to the all white areas.
What does that mean?
Do you know what pretext stops are?
FYI, I am very obviously white and when I was in my late 20s, I was pulled over three times in Moco in the span of three years for pretextual reasons: (1) light over license plate had gone out, (2) not coming to a complete stop before making a right turn on red (I actually did), and (3) one cop pulled me over, and then was quickly joined by two others who all surrounded me; but they never gave me any explanation and let me go after about 15 minutes. No tickets for any of this (well, I was issued a notice to get the license plate light fixed, and I had to have it signed by a police officer at a police station once I completed the repair). Each time, I fully complied with the officers and went on my way. Pretextual stops can happen to anyone. Just comply with the officer instructions if you have really done nothing wrong; it's not that hard.
So you agree they happen in Montgomery county. So you now know why it’s so dangerous because black people comply and die and white people fight and don’t die. You stayed safe because you were white.
Also 3x is not a lot in 3 years, shows how easy it is to be white in moco.
It’s actually funny you wrote it like 3 was a lot.
Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.
BTW, I have had more times that I have been pulled over since then. The three I first described were all from when I first moved here. Since then, I was pulled over for being passed due on the emissions test (I never got the notice). Another time, one of my headlights was out and I hadn't realized it. Oh, and once in downtown SS, a cop even stopped me for jaywalking and gave me a lecture, even though the two-lane road was totally free from cars. No tickets for any of these.
Can you provide a cite to any instance in Moco where a black person complied with officer instructions, wasn't displaying a weapon, and died?
I know there's a narrative that white people are not pulled over for stupid stuff, but it happens. I don't care.
You stayed safe because you’re White and didn’t fight. There are plenty of eyewitness accounts and even video that show Black, Latino, and Indigenous drivers not fighting and being beaten or even killed.
I know it wasn’t in MoCo, but surely you haven’t already forgotten about George Floyd? POC can do everything right and still end up dead.
“Everything right?”
“Hoop” narcotics?
Pass counterfeit money?
Fight the police?
George Floyd died of an overdose and his own stupidity, assisted on his way by at least one stupid cop.
What do you blame Philando Castile for?
Deaths like Floyd and Castile are of course tragic and should not have happened but that’s two in the past several years. How many more people have been senselessly killed by gun violence like the father in the SS parking garage? Just because Castile and Floyd died unnecessarily, that doesn’t mean reducing the number of police is the solution.
SS is quickly going to become a place that most people don’t want to visit anymore. And that’s a shame. But again, keep convincing yourself that the police are the problem. The criminals have totally won this battle and are probably overjoyed that regular folks are advocating on their behalf by ensuring that there are not enough police to keep up with them.
I clicked on a couple of folks on that page, and their deaths had nothing to do with police officers. So if your point was that we need more police to prevent these senseless deaths, I totally agree.
They were all murdered by police
Please go back and review the site. That’s not the purpose, even according to the description at the very top. Many deaths on that page are not police related.
It is still a tragic list.
You are wrong they were all killed by law enforcement…
From the 1st page:
This highlights Black people killed by U.S. law enforcement
You didn’t read (or copy to DCUM) the rest of that sentence. It is a list:
This work in progress highlights Black people killed by U.S. law enforcement (★), civilians (⦿), unknown (◇)
Many of the names have the circle and diamond shapes next to them, which are NOT law enforcement deaths.
You said black parole for by police because they fight.
I post a website that shows that is not true because many were innocently shopping or sleeping on their couch.
You say my link is meaning less because some on the list were not killed by cops.
Look at the ones with stars. Were there any black innocent jon violent people murdered by police. Because you seem to think black people deserve to die if they own a gun, refuse to be illegally detained, as why they are being arrested, etc
So again do you see any innocent people who were completely docile that were murdered by cops on the link?
I will not discuss this with you. I posted an objective statement that contained absolutely no opinion. It was simply clarifying something you posted using language from your link. Everything you typed here is from your perception or belief of me and nothing more.
I’ll take that as a white flag 🏳️.
From you Umm, I didn't fight. Sorry that you think fighting is an appropriate way to handle a police encounter. I was polite and respectful, even when three cop cards surrounded me for no reason. I stayed safe because I didn't fight.
Once again… I made no opinion statement. All I have posted on this entire thread is 100% backed-up fact. (I also don’t understand your point here?)
I did ask the question above, which appears to have gone unanswered. What do you think the county should do about crime in DTSS?
You seem to ignore the fact you said black people fight tfat is why they get killed. I list tons of black peoples that did not fight and got killed and you only answer is I won’t discuss that.
Please point to where I said that. All I did was cut/paste the website’s description to DCUM with no further commentary. That’s ALL I did. You fabricated the that nonsense you are attributing to me.
I would like a serious discussion about crime in DTSS as it directly affects my family. I have asked three times now for your suggestions: what can the county do to address crime?
Should I assume the fact you’re not answering is because you realize how tricky the problem is to address? I did point out that Prince George’s County is tackling crime through increased police presence and teen curfews. Are those methods we should be considering for DTSS? As it stands, the council is choosing the opposite by suggesting fewer police. The only opinion I have stated on this thread is that I think that’s illogical. What’s your opinion?
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Here's the thing. The majority of Black people want police in their neighborhoods. They want professional policing, of course. They want safe policing. But they know removing police is a recipe for disaster.
There is a very small, but extremely loud minority, comprised mostly of WHITE voices, who want to remove police in the name of equity. They are just very misguided. And at the end of the day, they aren't the ones who suffer when police are removed (or just leave).
I find interesting, however, that this seems to be the first non-Hispanic white murder victim in the county, and NOW politicians are listening. [/
They grandstand for every white murdered
Can you provide a link to a non white person who was shot to death in Montgomery county recently where the victim and murderer did not know each other?
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Here's the thing. The majority of Black people want police in their neighborhoods. They want professional policing, of course. They want safe policing. But they know removing police is a recipe for disaster.
There is a very small, but extremely loud minority, comprised mostly of WHITE voices, who want to remove police in the name of equity. They are just very misguided. And at the end of the day, they aren't the ones who suffer when police are removed (or just leave).
I find interesting, however, that this seems to be the first non-Hispanic white murder victim in the county, and NOW politicians are listening. [/
They grandstand for every white murdered
Can you provide a link to a non white person who was shot to death in Montgomery county recently where the victim and murderer did not know each other?
Are you attributing this to me? I did not write that. I actually have not commented on that sub thread at all. I suppose your question can be directed at someone else.
Anonymous wrote:Someone posted on Nextdoor that a woman was knocked to the ground and had her purse stolen at 11 am at the giant on ew highway. Nice to see silver spring continuing its descent into third world country status.
DCUMers would say she should feel lucky they didn’t hurt her. It is the price to pay to live in a vibrant city. More police will only hurt the minorities.
“More police” won’t protect you. The guy who killed his pregnant girlfriend and the gas station check lived in a building where you can see the police station. That’s certainly “more police” than would be mustered to DTSS and yet it didn’t stop him from murdering his pregnant gf at home or the gas station clerk nearby. “More police” just makes (White) people feel safer when they are around Black and Brown people. No evidence that it keeps law-abiding people of color safer.
The connection between police presence, and more intensive policing, and lower crime is one of the most well established in criminology. There is no question that proactive policing can and does reduce crime. We trashed policing in 2020 and saw an immediate 30% spike in murders.
Policing does come with costs to the communities policed. Maybe those costs are in your view too great so the effect on crime is not worth it. But don’t say that policing can’t reduce crime because it can.
The ironic thing is that when the number of police gets reduced, communities of color are the ones that see crime increase most significantly, and so more and more black people die from violence by other black people (as shown on that “say every name” webpage where most of the deaths are not from law enforcement but instead from cold blooded criminals with guns). The black deaths that occur by black-on-black violence are way in excess of any deaths from improper police use of force. So while black people advocate for fewer police based on the erroneous notion that police are rampantly killing black people, more and more black people will die at the hands of other black people.
I remember during the height of the BLM protests during Covid, there was a mass shooting during an unannounced DC block party, with a few people getting killed, and on the news, the older DC residents asked, “why was there no police presence for this huge event?” Really? Just look at the protests against the police that were happening hours earlier.
Here's the thing. The majority of Black people want police in their neighborhoods. They want professional policing, of course. They want safe policing. But they know removing police is a recipe for disaster.
There is a very small, but extremely loud minority, comprised mostly of WHITE voices, who want to remove police in the name of equity. They are just very misguided. And at the end of the day, they aren't the ones who suffer when police are removed (or just leave).
I find interesting, however, that this seems to be the first non-Hispanic white murder victim in the county, and NOW politicians are listening. [/
They grandstand for every white murdered
Can you provide a link to a non white person who was shot to death in Montgomery county recently where the victim and murderer did not know each other?
Are you attributing this to me? I did not write that. I actually have not commented on that sub thread at all. I suppose your question can be directed at someone else.
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