Accountability and Charter Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the start of the school year and I'm overjoyed at sending my kids to their neighborhood school after a terrible pandemic year and a half. If you are considering putting your kids into EL Haynes Elementary I would tell you not to do it. The school really dropped the ball during the pandemic and has an ineffectual parent association that is essentially a public relations tool for the school. Parents have zero input and were left powerless during the pandemic. Parent teacher conferences disappeared. Teachers bailed. It was a disaster. During the early days of the pandemic, during school hours, I found my kid's teacher at the grocery store buying wine.

If you are looking for a school with a strong sense of community, I would not send my child to Haynes.

I wish more schools were judged not just on teacher abilities (very important) but also how involved are the parents, and how well the school encourages and promotes accountability. So many charter schools have zero accountability.

Not sure why you are throwing the entire Charter Sector in on this. It's not really about accountability--as if DCPS central office had enough accountability to keep things going last year in most schools. Seems to me it's more about EL Haynes in particular..

The DC Charter Board actually has very stringent oversite and accountability metrics. I've been impressed. You can look up each and every charter schools and the details of their oversight, reopening plans etc, yearly evaluations, etc. here:

https://dcpcsb.org/school-profiles

A more direct link is https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-lea-continuous-education-plans

These are worthless. Check out the SSMA thread for what a charter is doing in practice. Without the Mayor saying no, charters will do whatever they want... and that means closures, closures, closures. If SSMA parents don't stamp this out now, they will have no school all year.

Yep. They may have metrics, but in practice there are no consequences when charters underperform and fail to meet their objectives.

Sure---no consequences. Here are a list of Charters closed by the Charter Board 2012-2020. 26 LEAs or campuses closed due to Charter Board oversight.

https://dcpcsb.org/charter-school-growth-and-closures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the start of the school year and I'm overjoyed at sending my kids to their neighborhood school after a terrible pandemic year and a half. If you are considering putting your kids into EL Haynes Elementary I would tell you not to do it. The school really dropped the ball during the pandemic and has an ineffectual parent association that is essentially a public relations tool for the school. Parents have zero input and were left powerless during the pandemic. Parent teacher conferences disappeared. Teachers bailed. It was a disaster. During the early days of the pandemic, during school hours, I found my kid's teacher at the grocery store buying wine.

If you are looking for a school with a strong sense of community, I would not send my child to Haynes.

I wish more schools were judged not just on teacher abilities (very important) but also how involved are the parents, and how well the school encourages and promotes accountability. So many charter schools have zero accountability.

Not sure why you are throwing the entire Charter Sector in on this. It's not really about accountability--as if DCPS central office had enough accountability to keep things going last year in most schools. Seems to me it's more about EL Haynes in particular..

The DC Charter Board actually has very stringent oversite and accountability metrics. I've been impressed. You can look up each and every charter schools and the details of their oversight, reopening plans etc, yearly evaluations, etc. here:

https://dcpcsb.org/school-profiles

A more direct link is https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-lea-continuous-education-plans

These are worthless. Check out the SSMA thread for what a charter is doing in practice. Without the Mayor saying no, charters will do whatever they want... and that means closures, closures, closures. If SSMA parents don't stamp this out now, they will have no school all year.

Yep. They may have metrics, but in practice there are no consequences when charters underperform and fail to meet their objectives.

Sure---no consequences. Here are a list of Charters closed by the Charter Board 2012-2020. 26 LEAs or campuses closed due to Charter Board oversight.

https://dcpcsb.org/charter-school-growth-and-closures

Mhmm. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/998177.page

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the start of the school year and I'm overjoyed at sending my kids to their neighborhood school after a terrible pandemic year and a half. If you are considering putting your kids into EL Haynes Elementary I would tell you not to do it. The school really dropped the ball during the pandemic and has an ineffectual parent association that is essentially a public relations tool for the school. Parents have zero input and were left powerless during the pandemic. Parent teacher conferences disappeared. Teachers bailed. It was a disaster. During the early days of the pandemic, during school hours, I found my kid's teacher at the grocery store buying wine.

If you are looking for a school with a strong sense of community, I would not send my child to Haynes.

I wish more schools were judged not just on teacher abilities (very important) but also how involved are the parents, and how well the school encourages and promotes accountability. So many charter schools have zero accountability.

Not sure why you are throwing the entire Charter Sector in on this. It's not really about accountability--as if DCPS central office had enough accountability to keep things going last year in most schools. Seems to me it's more about EL Haynes in particular..

The DC Charter Board actually has very stringent oversite and accountability metrics. I've been impressed. You can look up each and every charter schools and the details of their oversight, reopening plans etc, yearly evaluations, etc. here:

https://dcpcsb.org/school-profiles

A more direct link is https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-lea-continuous-education-plans

These are worthless. Check out the SSMA thread for what a charter is doing in practice. Without the Mayor saying no, charters will do whatever they want... and that means closures, closures, closures. If SSMA parents don't stamp this out now, they will have no school all year.

Yep. They may have metrics, but in practice there are no consequences when charters underperform and fail to meet their objectives.

Sure---no consequences. Here are a list of Charters closed by the Charter Board 2012-2020. 26 LEAs or campuses closed due to Charter Board oversight.

https://dcpcsb.org/charter-school-growth-and-closures

Mhmm. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/998177.page

That's insane. Seems to be a poor job of communication and administration at this particular charter school. I bet it comes up next time they are reviewed by the charter board.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's the start of the school year and I'm overjoyed at sending my kids to their neighborhood school after a terrible pandemic year and a half. If you are considering putting your kids into EL Haynes Elementary I would tell you not to do it. The school really dropped the ball during the pandemic and has an ineffectual parent association that is essentially a public relations tool for the school. Parents have zero input and were left powerless during the pandemic. Parent teacher conferences disappeared. Teachers bailed. It was a disaster. During the early days of the pandemic, during school hours, I found my kid's teacher at the grocery store buying wine.

If you are looking for a school with a strong sense of community, I would not send my child to Haynes.

I wish more schools were judged not just on teacher abilities (very important) but also how involved are the parents, and how well the school encourages and promotes accountability. So many charter schools have zero accountability.

Not sure why you are throwing the entire Charter Sector in on this. It's not really about accountability--as if DCPS central office had enough accountability to keep things going last year in most schools. Seems to me it's more about EL Haynes in particular..

The DC Charter Board actually has very stringent oversite and accountability metrics. I've been impressed. You can look up each and every charter schools and the details of their oversight, reopening plans etc, yearly evaluations, etc. here:

https://dcpcsb.org/school-profiles

A more direct link is https://osse.dc.gov/page/2021-22-lea-continuous-education-plans

These are worthless. Check out the SSMA thread for what a charter is doing in practice. Without the Mayor saying no, charters will do whatever they want... and that means closures, closures, closures. If SSMA parents don't stamp this out now, they will have no school all year.

Yep. They may have metrics, but in practice there are no consequences when charters underperform and fail to meet their objectives.

Sure---no consequences. Here are a list of Charters closed by the Charter Board 2012-2020. 26 LEAs or campuses closed due to Charter Board oversight.

https://dcpcsb.org/charter-school-growth-and-closures

Mhmm. https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/998177.page

That's insane. Seems to be a poor job of communication and administration at this particular charter school. I bet it comes up next time they are reviewed by the charter board.

+1 DCUM wants us to think that all charters are the same, but they are not. That is why some are more popular than others.

[Anonymous]

Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

Easy. They have to do things charters do not, like take all IB kids year round. Together they provide a comprehensive system that provides a seat for all children at all times. Do some of them not function as well as they should? Sure. But unless charters are willing to share in that foundational responsibility, schools of right must continue to exist. DCPS does sometimes close schools (Washington Met and Shaed are a few examples), but it must be able to continue to provide a school of right to every student who wants a seat, within a reasonable commute. So it's not so easy to close. Not like a charter that can pull the plug and leave people in the lurch whenever it wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

What is your prescription, precisely? More stringent oversight by the charter board? Schools closed more quickly and communities disrupted Willy nilly before they have a chance to improve on weaknesses? Or you want no schools
to close—more intense remediation efforts? Or you want tax payer money to go back to DCPS only, and the politically-tuned, dysfunctional, behemoth of non-education and graft knows as DCPS central office? Have you even heard the Chancellor speak? He’s a lightweight, political beast—not a serious educational leader. That’s what you want? Do tell…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

Easy. They have to do things charters do not, like take all IB kids year round. Together they provide a comprehensive system that provides a seat for all children at all times. Do some of them not function as well as they should? Sure. But unless charters are willing to share in that foundational responsibility, schools of right must continue to exist. DCPS does sometimes close schools (Washington Met and Shaed are a few examples), but it must be able to continue to provide a school of right to every student who wants a seat, within a reasonable commute. So it's not so easy to close. Not like a charter that can pull the plug and leave people in the lurch whenever it wants.

Friend, you are confused. What does DCPS schools being available for every inbound student have to do with charter accountability? And before the argument was the charter board leaving schools open too long, now the complaint is they close whenever they want? Go back and check your anti-charter talking points. Or else, narrow your complaints to the particular school you have a problem with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

What is your prescription, precisely? More stringent oversight by the charter board? Schools closed more quickly and communities disrupted Willy nilly before they have a chance to improve on weaknesses? Or you want no schools
to close—more intense remediation efforts? Or you want tax payer money to go back to DCPS only, and the politically-tuned, dysfunctional, behemoth of non-education and graft knows as DCPS central office? Have you even heard the Chancellor speak? He’s a lightweight, political beast—not a serious educational leader. That’s what you want? Do tell…

I would say to intervene sooner rather than allowing the suckitude to go on until the 5/10/15 year review. Two bad years should mean the school has to provide an improvement plan Stop allowing so many extensions-- 5 years means 5, not 8. Not shrugging their shoulders and saying "flexibility!" to justify schools that really have nothing particularly special about them, are not innovating, and are barely squeaking by on renewal metrics. Stop allowing schools to expand or replicate unless they are among the highest performing schools-- no more wasting real estate on meh schools. Most of these flexibilities the PCSB already possesses but is opting not to exercise, and mediocrity is the result. I am no fan of the chancellor or of DCPS but I see no reason we can't have better charter schools than we currently do. And I see no reason for an established out of state operator such as Harmony to be allowed to have a nearly-failing school in DC for eight years. The parent company should bring it's good performance to DC like it does for other cities, or get out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

Easy. They have to do things charters do not, like take all IB kids year round. Together they provide a comprehensive system that provides a seat for all children at all times. Do some of them not function as well as they should? Sure. But unless charters are willing to share in that foundational responsibility, schools of right must continue to exist. DCPS does sometimes close schools (Washington Met and Shaed are a few examples), but it must be able to continue to provide a school of right to every student who wants a seat, within a reasonable commute. So it's not so easy to close. Not like a charter that can pull the plug and leave people in the lurch whenever it wants.

Friend, you are confused. What does DCPS schools being available for every inbound student have to do with charter accountability? And before the argument was the charter board leaving schools open too long, now the complaint is they close whenever they want? Go back and check your anti-charter talking points. Or else, narrow your complaints to the particular school you have a problem with.

The point is that DCPS must provide a seat for every child that wants a seat, within a certain distance from home. That means that DCPS cannot just shut down a school without a plan for where those children will go and how they will be served. It's a totally different thing from how charter schools can shut down at any time without making a plan, knowing that DCPS must step in and serve the kids. DCPS does intervene, replace principals, implement turnarounds and restructurings, and sometimes do closures. But it's a different type of process with different considerations.

[Anonymous]

Oh, and schools that should be closed: SSMA before it collapses for lack of enrollment. Harmony, for its low performance and lack of innovation. Ingenuity Prep for all the whistleblower complaints and poor performance. Those are just the ones I'm aware of, there are probably more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

Easy. They have to do things charters do not, like take all IB kids year round. Together they provide a comprehensive system that provides a seat for all children at all times. Do some of them not function as well as they should? Sure. But unless charters are willing to share in that foundational responsibility, schools of right must continue to exist. DCPS does sometimes close schools (Washington Met and Shaed are a few examples), but it must be able to continue to provide a school of right to every student who wants a seat, within a reasonable commute. So it's not so easy to close. Not like a charter that can pull the plug and leave people in the lurch whenever it wants.

Friend, you are confused. What does DCPS schools being available for every inbound student have to do with charter accountability? And before the argument was the charter board leaving schools open too long, now the complaint is they close whenever they want? Go back and check your anti-charter talking points. Or else, narrow your complaints to the particular school you have a problem with.

The point is that DCPS must provide a seat for every child that wants a seat, within a certain distance from home. That means that DCPS cannot just shut down a school without a plan for where those children will go and how they will be served. It's a totally different thing from how charter schools can shut down at any time without making a plan, knowing that DCPS must step in and serve the kids. DCPS does intervene, replace principals, implement turnarounds and restructurings, and sometimes do closures. But it's a different type of process with different considerations.

I think what you are in favor of is improvement in both charter and DCPS sectors and robust cooperation between the two sectors. Agreed that this choice is best for students across DC and that the arrival of charter schools in DC has resulted in the overall improvement of both sectors. It’s not as simple as one sector is great and the other is a waste of tax dollars. Here’s to continued improvement for all DC students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody’s talking about all schools, we’re talking about the system of oversight for charters in DC. Good ones are fine, with or without effective oversight. Bad ones are allowed to continue without consequence or accountability for years. Eventually families start fleeing and they enter the “charter death spiral” and the Board takes notice. It’s been happening for years.

This. Yes, the really egregiously poor performers are eventually closed. After being awful for years and years and getting extension after extension, slowly spiraling down and down. Closure won't bring those years back for the kids. And it won't change the fact that taxpayers paid for low performing schools because the charter board isn't willing to actually enforce its own standards.

If this is true, please compare to the failing DCPS neighborhood schools and how they are permitted to churn along horrible for years and years failing generations of students.

Easy. They have to do things charters do not, like take all IB kids year round. Together they provide a comprehensive system that provides a seat for all children at all times. Do some of them not function as well as they should? Sure. But unless charters are willing to share in that foundational responsibility, schools of right must continue to exist. DCPS does sometimes close schools (Washington Met and Shaed are a few examples), but it must be able to continue to provide a school of right to every student who wants a seat, within a reasonable commute. So it's not so easy to close. Not like a charter that can pull the plug and leave people in the lurch whenever it wants.

Friend, you are confused. What does DCPS schools being available for every inbound student have to do with charter accountability? And before the argument was the charter board leaving schools open too long, now the complaint is they close whenever they want? Go back and check your anti-charter talking points. Or else, narrow your complaints to the particular school you have a problem with.

The point is that DCPS must provide a seat for every child that wants a seat, within a certain distance from home. That means that DCPS cannot just shut down a school without a plan for where those children will go and how they will be served. It's a totally different thing from how charter schools can shut down at any time without making a plan, knowing that DCPS must step in and serve the kids. DCPS does intervene, replace principals, implement turnarounds and restructurings, and sometimes do closures. But it's a different type of process with different considerations.

NP here. Gotta agree with the person who called you out for confusing your anti-charter talking points. The original issue was failing schools not being closed. Now you are arguing that Charters get to choose who attends and don't have to take all comers (wrong, but I can't deal with all of your internal inconsistencies all at once). Failing schools usually have a higher population of at risk and special needs and below grade level learners. So you are arguing at the same time that Charters don't carry their weight with at risk, but also that those that do try and service that population should be shut down? Pick a lane!

I'd also argue you are gaslighting by pretending that maybe a few DCPS schools fail year after year. Actually, the same schools have failed for years and years. Forget ES, have you even seen the data for at grade level for the High Schools in DC?

You make yourself look silly by vomiting all the tired anti-charter stuff in one fell swoop without thinking about what is on the page. Stop embarrassing yourself.