"Without mitigation, they predict that 80% of elementary students will be infected within 2 months"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because most parents think they and their kids are invincible and it will not happen to them.

Because my children are not lab rats.

You didn't read the link posted in the OP. This thread is not about mandating vaccines for children.

Take your misunderstandings to another thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

[Anonymous]

Schools should have been open all year last year. I say that as a teacher. So there’s absolutely zero support for school closures now, warranted or not. So it will play out. I could see closures of individual schools where cases were high.

MA did pooled testing last year which I think is being continued. I’m looking forward to getting my 11 year old vaccinated as soon as the EUA comes through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

DP. That's your reality. It's not my reality. My kids were in school last spring. They'll be in school next week. They'll be as safe as possible. And they'll be where they need to be.

[Anonymous]

I honestly don’t care if my kid gets Covid. They’ll be fine. I actually expect them to. They need to be in school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

Do your research.

1) PICU's (and ICUs generally) operate on narrow margins as a matter of course, even pre-Covid. They are often at or near capacity. That's because healthcare in this country is a business, and hospitals make careful choices about number of beds (especially expensive-to-staff-and-maintain beds, like in ICUs) in order to minimize costs and maximize profits. Be wary of the scare mongering stories that talk about hospitals being at or near capacity without talking about this. Plenty of PICUs have experienced spikes just like we are seeing now pre-Covid, due to flu season or RSV. We didn't shut down schools for that. Ask yourself why this is different.

2) You can't separate the childcare from the health & safety issue for children. They are deeply intertwined. Say we shut down schools because of the risk of Covid. Okay, we immediately put many kids at higher risk of things like child abuse, malnutrition, street violence, even car accidents. Schools are one way we keep many kids safe and fed in this country. You cannot disregard that just because your personal fear of Covid is higher than your fear of malnutrition. That's not the equation for many kids in this country.

3) If shutting down schools just forces people to place their kids in group care, what have we gained in terms of safety from the Delta variant? Why does shifting children from a group setting at school to a group setting in a private facility help? Be specific. This is precisely what I mean when I say "scare mongering". If you think we need to close schools, fine. Make the argument. But make it an actual argument that explains who it will reduce spread, and factor in things like the fact that working parents MUST have childcare and are not going to just quit their jobs to stay home with their kids. If your goal is to diminish spread, you have to account for the fact that kids are going to be in group care whether schools are open or not.

I am tired of this conversation being driven by people who just want to point at the sky and scream that it's falling, instead of by policy experts and the people actually on the front lines in schools, hospitals, and government administration. Closing schools at this point solves nothing, and perpetuates problems that have already reached critical breaking points. Focus on mitigating spread in schools. Vaccines, masks, cohosting, outdoor lunch, quarantine policies. Make these as good as they can be, make sure people follow them, create consequences for schools and individuals who don't follow them. That's the solution. "Close the schools" IS. NOT. A. SOLUTION. It's a panic attack. I am tired of dealing with your panic attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

Do your research.

1) PICU's (and ICUs generally) operate on narrow margins as a matter of course, even pre-Covid. They are often at or near capacity. That's because healthcare in this country is a business, and hospitals make careful choices about number of beds (especially expensive-to-staff-and-maintain beds, like in ICUs) in order to minimize costs and maximize profits. Be wary of the scare mongering stories that talk about hospitals being at or near capacity without talking about this. Plenty of PICUs have experienced spikes just like we are seeing now pre-Covid, due to flu season or RSV. We didn't shut down schools for that. Ask yourself why this is different.

2) You can't separate the childcare from the health & safety issue for children. They are deeply intertwined. Say we shut down schools because of the risk of Covid. Okay, we immediately put many kids at higher risk of things like child abuse, malnutrition, street violence, even car accidents. Schools are one way we keep many kids safe and fed in this country. You cannot disregard that just because your personal fear of Covid is higher than your fear of malnutrition. That's not the equation for many kids in this country.

3) If shutting down schools just forces people to place their kids in group care, what have we gained in terms of safety from the Delta variant? Why does shifting children from a group setting at school to a group setting in a private facility help? Be specific. This is precisely what I mean when I say "scare mongering". If you think we need to close schools, fine. Make the argument. But make it an actual argument that explains who it will reduce spread, and factor in things like the fact that working parents MUST have childcare and are not going to just quit their jobs to stay home with their kids. If your goal is to diminish spread, you have to account for the fact that kids are going to be in group care whether schools are open or not.

I am tired of this conversation being driven by people who just want to point at the sky and scream that it's falling, instead of by policy experts and the people actually on the front lines in schools, hospitals, and government administration. Closing schools at this point solves nothing, and perpetuates problems that have already reached critical breaking points. Focus on mitigating spread in schools. Vaccines, masks, cohosting, outdoor lunch, quarantine policies. Make these as good as they can be, make sure people follow them, create consequences for schools and individuals who don't follow them. That's the solution. "Close the schools" IS. NOT. A. SOLUTION. It's a panic attack. I am tired of dealing with your panic attacks.

+100

I taught in person last year from November to June, without a vaccine, through the deadly winter surge. I wore two cloth masks. Panic attacks accomplish nothing. I would know, given my history of an anxiety disorder.

Keep calm and carry on!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Schools should have been open all year last year. I say that as a teacher. So there’s absolutely zero support for school closures now, warranted or not. So it will play out. I could see closures of individual schools where cases were high.

MA did pooled testing last year which I think is being continued. I’m looking forward to getting my 11 year old vaccinated as soon as the EUA comes through.

+1

We made this bed, and now we have to lie in it. I am not enthusiastic about sending my kid to school in the middle of the Delta spike. But I honestly do not feel like I have other good options because my kid hasn't been in proper school in a year and a half. Right now, school with mitigation measures is my best option. That might change if things get worse. I am praying they get better instead.

I'd love to think the people who worked together to make sure schools didn't reopen last year would look at this situation and realize why their behavior and choices were ill-considered. They won't. Many people view these issues myopically through their own fear and anxiety, and often their privilege (it's easy to argue in favor of closing schools if you have a SAHP or your kids are old enough to take care of themselves or you can afford full time in-home care, etc.). It is so hard for people to take a step back and ask "what is the best society-level solution to this problem, that maximizes positive outcomes for kids and families as a whole." Right now, that's still opening schools, even if it's scary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

Well said and I entirely agree.

[Anonymous]

Nobody thinks kids will not get it, who thinks that? But, kids are pretty resilient to this virus! How else do you all think we are not seeing thousands of kids dying in the last two years?
We have a pp saying her kids gave it to dad, and the kids are fine.
This virus will die down, and soon. And no I am not a covid denier, I even washed my veggies in bleach!
But, the virus is dying out, mostly due to moron Americans getting it like nuts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t care if my kid gets Covid. They’ll be fine. I actually expect them to. They need to be in school.

What if they get something else and there is no hospital capacity available to help them?

What if the infect a lot of other people with this illness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People who post these scare-monger if threads with headlines that don’t make sense or are misleading (as many PPs have pointed out, we have many mitigation strategies in place, including mandatory vaccines for adults, masks for all, quarantines for outbreaks, social distancing), should have to explain what Plan B is.

Okay, say we close schools preemptively again because of reports like this, instead of trying mitigation and seeing that can enable us to keep schools open. Then what? How do we make sure working families have childcare? It’s not like last year when employers were understanding and more people were WFH. Now a lot of parents are back in offices and employers are explicitly requiring them to have childcare. Obviously some people can afford that but many of us can’t. Also, it’s unrealistic that everyone’s hiring a nanny or tutor, right? Which means kids will be going into group care, which is … just like school in terms of Covid risk! Plus we also still face the problems of disparate impact in learning loss, pulling lowers SES kids further and further behind. Plus the social implications for kids, which are real and get worse daily.

So fine, post these stupid context-less headlines and try to freak everyone out. But you have to explain what your alternative is then. “Close schools” is what we have been doing. Not sure if you noticed, but it has not worked. So what’s YOUR plan?

Denying the risks of mass infection of our children is what is actually stupid. Doctors are concerned that there aren’t enough PICU beds or enough staff for the coming surge when we open schools-cities like Dallas already have ZERO available. What is your solution to that? To shrug your shoulders because you need childcare? What’s YOUR solution to the death and long term disability of children?
The reality is that there should be no group childcare, and no in person schooling, until Delta stops spreading rampantly among the unvaccinated.

Well said and I entirely agree.

With what? If no school and no group childcare, what do you propose working parents do? Are you proposing employers be required to give parents unlimited leave until children can return to school? Are you ready for broad economic relief to both businesses who lose productivity and individuals who wind up not being about to work because all children must stay home? If that is what you are proposing, then say it. You can't have one without the other. You cannot propose we keep all kids home and not create a society-wide plan for what that means for the economy. And you better factor in the fact that many parents have already been through this several times over the last year, and are already at a breaking point financially and in terms of mental health. You better have a plan for that, too. Otherwise I hope you are ready for a host of other public health crises, including family poverty, domestic abuse, depression, even suicide. I am not joking. When you say these things, you need to understand what it actually means for the real people who will be impacted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://twitter.com/denise_dewald/status/1426318478861013001?s=19

I'm not really comforted by "the kids will probably be ok" arguments. Why is that being accepted??

Homeschool your Larlo, they will grow up uneducated, anyway. Problem solved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly don’t care if my kid gets Covid. They’ll be fine. I actually expect them to. They need to be in school.

What if they get something else and there is no hospital capacity available to help them?

What if the infect a lot of other people with this illness?

Then it was meant to be.
Enough with this idiotic hysteria. Life involves risks and it should go on regardless. Children go to schools in war zones because it keeps rhem together and grounded. But what would you know about it if you sat your entire life on your butt in your pathetic suburban mcMansion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:delta is only 50% more transmissible than the variant circulating last year when vaccination rates were low and our school was back at around 2/3 the total student body, with normal class sizes. There were 2 cases and zero spread in school afaik. I don’t think this model is correct.

I don’t think you understand 50% more means.

What schools had normal class sizes during the 2020-3021 school year?

plenty of schools had normal class sizes.

this models does not correspond to what we know about transmission in school (including Delta).

NP. What DO you "know about transmission in school (including Delta)"?

How do you "know" it when Delta has come along and ramped up during the summer when kids are not in school? And even if some school systems have been in session in August already -- do you not understand, or just refuse to understand, that there has not been enough time for anyone to do any kind of scientifically valid study that would tell us yet about Delta in school settings in any useful way?

You are just blathering things to sound "official" as if you "know" something and there is no real, valid data.

Oh, and if you plan to come back and shout, "I'm talking about transmisison in schools in other countries where they ARE in school in summer!" blah blah blah....do you really think we care? Get valid stats about transmission here. Oh, right. You can't.