pattern of siblings "winning lottery"at HB Woodlawn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am new to APS and my kids are young. Can someone tell me what is so good about HB Woodlawn compared to other APS schools?

Lower student: teacher ratios. Also a fancy new building.

With no open grass fields or open space to run around. In the middle of a very busy city (Rosslyn) amongst hi-rises.

No thanks. The reason HB got put there is because noone wanted to send their ES kids to a school in the middle of a city (the original plan was consideration of an ES vs MS/HS).

I have read that the way HB manages slightly lower student/teacher ratios is by having everyone on staff teach (even the principal and vice principal) and by eliminating non-teaching staff positions that other schools have, like school counselor, etc. My understanding is that it's no cakewalk for the teachers as they need to wear many hats and act as counselors and that for some students, it's not a good fit.

We were lucky enough to get in through the lottery within the last few years. We have no pull with anyone (in fact is it possible to have negative pull? Because that's us). We saw some very active APS families at our elementary (APS volunteers, on committees, etc.) not have our luck in the lottery. I do not think it was fixed but ymmv. Our kid is an only child so we don't have a sibling story.

Can I also say that HB is a good fit for my weird kid, but if your kid is more normal they might not like it. No sports besides ultimate, no buses to other middle school sports, fewer course offerings because it's a smaller school, no IB, leave your elementary school friends behind you because only 3 other people from your old school will be here and you probably weren't friends with them, etc. This has been a great fit for us, but wouldn't work for many of the popular kids or jocks (which is one of the reasons my kid is having a good experience I think).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am new to APS and my kids are young. Can someone tell me what is so good about HB Woodlawn compared to other APS schools?

Lower student: teacher ratios. Also a fancy new building.

With no open grass fields or open space to run around. In the middle of a very busy city (Rosslyn) amongst hi-rises.

No thanks. The reason HB got put there is because noone wanted to send their ES kids to a school in the middle of a city (the original plan was consideration of an ES vs MS/HS).

I have read that the way HB manages slightly lower student/teacher ratios is by having everyone on staff teach (even the principal and vice principal) and by eliminating non-teaching staff positions that other schools have, like school counselor, etc. My understanding is that it's no cakewalk for the teachers as they need to wear many hats and act as counselors and that for some students, it's not a good fit.

We were lucky enough to get in through the lottery within the last few years. We have no pull with anyone (in fact is it possible to have negative pull? Because that's us). We saw some very active APS families at our elementary (APS volunteers, on committees, etc.) not have our luck in the lottery. I do not think it was fixed but ymmv. Our kid is an only child so we don't have a sibling story.

Can I also say that HB is a good fit for my weird kid, but if your kid is more normal they might not like it. No sports besides ultimate, no buses to other middle school sports, fewer course offerings because it's a smaller school, no IB, leave your elementary school friends behind you because only 3 other people from your old school will be here and you probably weren't friends with them, etc. This has been a great fit for us, but wouldn't work for many of the popular kids or jocks (which is one of the reasons my kid is having a good experience I think).

They don't spend any more money on the HB budget than they do on any other school--they don't get any additional staff--they just allocate them differently. It isn't allocated lower student ratios.

And I don't know why people say the building is "fancy." Its all concrete inside. Yes, they have some terraces the kids can access, but that's because they hardly have any field space at ground level. There is literally no parking. The classrooms are regular old classrooms. The library is a school library. The gym is a gym. I personally think Kenmore is "fancy" for a middle school, with two theaters including a black box space. I think Discovery is outrageous. But there's nothing particularly fancy at H-B other than the exterior architecture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone else noticed this pattern? The lottery for HB Woodlawn is supposed to be random, but every single rising rising six grader that got in from my daughter's elementary school this year, all have siblings at HB Woodlawn. This can not be a coincidence.

My older kid is at HB and my younger kid entered the lottery four times (6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th) before getting in. If it is rigged, that's a weird way to do it. But I'm sure someone will look at our family and think we have some kind of "in," because it couldn't just be a coincidence!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am new to APS and my kids are young. Can someone tell me what is so good about HB Woodlawn compared to other APS schools?

Lower student: teacher ratios. Also a fancy new building.

With no open grass fields or open space to run around. In the middle of a very busy city (Rosslyn) amongst hi-rises.

No thanks. The reason HB got put there is because noone wanted to send their ES kids to a school in the middle of a city (the original plan was consideration of an ES vs MS/HS).

I have read that the way HB manages slightly lower student/teacher ratios is by having everyone on staff teach (even the principal and vice principal) and by eliminating non-teaching staff positions that other schools have, like school counselor, etc. My understanding is that it's no cakewalk for the teachers as they need to wear many hats and act as counselors and that for some students, it's not a good fit.

We were lucky enough to get in through the lottery within the last few years. We have no pull with anyone (in fact is it possible to have negative pull? Because that's us). We saw some very active APS families at our elementary (APS volunteers, on committees, etc.) not have our luck in the lottery. I do not think it was fixed but ymmv. Our kid is an only child so we don't have a sibling story.

Can I also say that HB is a good fit for my weird kid, but if your kid is more normal they might not like it. No sports besides ultimate, no buses to other middle school sports, fewer course offerings because it's a smaller school, no IB, leave your elementary school friends behind you because only 3 other people from your old school will be here and you probably weren't friends with them, etc. This has been a great fit for us, but wouldn't work for many of the popular kids or jocks (which is one of the reasons my kid is having a good experience I think).

They don't spend any more money on the HB budget than they do on any other school--they don't get any additional staff--they just allocate them differently. It isn't allocated lower student ratios.

And I don't know why people say the building is "fancy." Its all concrete inside. Yes, they have some terraces the kids can access, but that's because they hardly have any field space at ground level. There is literally no parking. The classrooms are regular old classrooms. The library is a school library. The gym is a gym. I personally think Kenmore is "fancy" for a middle school, with two theaters including a black box space. I think Discovery is outrageous. But there's nothing particularly fancy at H-B other than the exterior architecture.

I'm an HB parent. I liked the old building and campus much better. I don't like that there isn't any parking at the new school. That's the biggest problem for me. Also, inside is cold concrete, there is very little outside space, the stairs are steep and there are a lot of them, and I don't love my kid walking around Rosslyn. I have no idea how APS spent so much on the new building. I have heard it was hard to build there because the site is so small and that added costs. But I wasn't involved so I don't know. Knowing APS, I'm sure they built it fancier than it needed to be to get an award or something, but that's no an HB thing. They did the same thing with Discovery.

I would have rather HB just stayed in the old building. I get that the Hamm site was more needed for a neighborhood school and I agree that it makes sense for the option program to have the worse site (Rosslyn) since we do have a choice. So I'm not complaining about the new building, but it does get very old having others complain about HB when HB didn't want to move in the first place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, they did the lottery live on MS Teams. I watched the whole thing. Yes, it only showed the numbers of the kids who won, not the names, but there will be a clear paper trail, it would be simple to audit after the fact. The type of shenanigans you are implying would require a high level of fraud, with many people “in on it.” I know it is disappointing when your kid doesn’t get in, but the lottery is not rigged.

I have participated in the lottery and yeah there is some manual intervention. It happened 2 years ago and they had tried to hide the fact they had 2 copies of lists in the system - one created by the system from parents who registered and then one they created manually in the system. it became apparent and people started commenting. I bet someone could dig up a thread here. It probably had to do with needing to retain some seats that they could assign for whatever reason - maybe administrative transfer?

There is no way to administrative transfer to hb. It is not an option on the website so only some direct back door deal is possible to get in.

Administrative transfers are always case by case, not public, usually because of some specific problem a child is having. Often these kids are in a bad place and the circumstances are private.

This is the case for all admin transfer to any school in APS. I highly doubt they let a lot of kids into HB as admin transfers because if they did, you'd see it in the numbers.

OMG seriously ? Ok so they aren’t admin transfers they come from somewhere. My point is it is not a true lottery in the sense that all open seats are included in the lottery. They hold back a certain number of seats and fill them somehow. Again they made mistakes the first year they used the new online platform and revealed by accident that it was a manual and not an automatic process. I mean it doesn’t tell you something that you joined a call so they could reveal the numbers picked??? How did that make sense to you? The program they use is fully capable of producing a randomized list with zero intervention. Basically pick a closing date and time and then a time for the lottery process to run after that - say 1 min, or maybe an hour, whatever. Takes the program no more than a couple minutes and the results are available. No human interaction needed. But they don’t do that do they? Which is actually weird because having the computer perform the lottery eliminates the idea that a person interferes with the results.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

No, instead of having dedicated guidance counselors each teacher is the guidance counselor for 10 students. Also the principal and vice principals have a teaching load as well as a home room/counseling load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

Oh those poor kids that have to go to Yorktown

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have one at HB and my other one did not get in.

Same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

Oh those poor kids that have to go to Yorktown

My point is that HB Is free riding off the other schools. If all schools increased teacher to student ratio by eliminating counselors it would be a pickle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

Oh those poor kids that have to go to Yorktown

My point is that HB Is free riding off the other schools. If all schools increased teacher to student ratio by eliminating counselors it would be a pickle.

Not really. HB isn't borrowing school counselors from other schools. They are just having their own teachers perform the work of school counselors. Kids are not leaving HB because they aren't being adequately advised or counseled -- if anything kids are closer to their teachers at HB than they are at other schools, because teachers are advising them more closely.

I'm not sure if HB teachers are getting training on counseling, but whatever they are doing, it seems to be working. I'm not sure how HB's actions here affect those of other schools so I don't see your point. If other schools could increase their teacher/student ratios in a similarly effective manner as HB, I see that as nothing but good!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

Oh those poor kids that have to go to Yorktown

My point is that HB Is free riding off the other schools. If all schools increased teacher to student ratio by eliminating counselors it would be a pickle.

Other schools have many, many more adults in the building per student because they have more English language learners receiving language support/instruction and more students receiving special ed support from aides than H-B provides. Not to mention the layers of admin etc that you get when you have so many more kids per grade and such a large student body. In addition to not having 10 counselors, 4 counseling admins, and a counseling director, they only have 2 assistant principals for 7 grades, not 7, they don't have curriculum leads, etc.

[Anonymous]

This still isn't free riding off other schools. Other schools have and use those resourcces, but HB does not. They have fewer course offerings etc., but manage with the staff they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s crazy that APs spends so much money on so few kids when the high schools suck and are bursting at the seams. They are going to “shifts” for in person learning in the next few years while hb has like 100 per grade? Insane.

I'm PP and just want to be clear here: APS is not spending so much money on so few kids at HB anymore. What cost the money (and a crazy amount of money I agree) was building the building. But APS doesn't spend more per kid at HB than at other schools -- HB keeps the costs down by not having the staff that other schools have and making everyone teach.

Well that works because the kids who would need the staff they didn’t hire end up leaving HB or never applying. It’s like how Charter schools counsel out troublesome kids in DC.

Oh those poor kids that have to go to Yorktown

My point is that HB Is free riding off the other schools. If all schools increased teacher to student ratio by eliminating counselors it would be a pickle.

how is HB riding off other schools? HB kids are not using the counselor at the other schools. They choose to do without a counselor when they enroll at HB.