17yo son into Steven Crowder, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think people are way downplaying the impact of social media here. It’s been demonstrated that we are all being fed more and more extreme content based on algorithms, and that social media (and conventional media) is getting more polarized. Saying that he’s just “researching” or “debating” or “has different views” does not at all capture what’s going on, especially for kids/teens.

What I’d recommend is setting aside the individual arguments and personalities and talk instead about social media and polarization. Watch the Social Dilemma together. Encourage him to consume edited media on both sides of the aisle - I actually like Reason Magazine although I never fully agree with it. Subscribe to the NYTimes and WSJ.

Then, have conversations about values, not “debates.” Explain why you care about sexism and racism. Talk about actual statistics and facts.

I think all of us raising white boys in this environment are going to face this sooner or later. The fact is a lot of the rhetoric around race/gender is well meaning but can result in white boys feeling attacked/alienated, which obviously leads them straight to the Shapiro types.

I think this is spot on. If the kid thinks they are being attacked, and it isn't hard to cherry pick examples of politicians/talking heads/academics sounding like the are anti white male, then the response from a teenager isn't going to introspection, it's going to be to fight back or to view those they perceive to be attacking them as the enemy. I would just drop the political discussions at home, restrict social media and find another outlet where your kid can find a group to identify with based on something other than being a fellow white male- sports/hobbies/theater/instrument.... anything really

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

These are not “really important questions”. He’s correct and I’m glad he’s gaining such a following among teens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he has different political views then you? That is perfectly fine, and the fact you are on here asking how to stop him is a sad testament to the state of our political discourse right now.

Make sure he knows you love him no matter what, and he is welcome to enjoy whatever political discourse he wants. Maybe schedule some time to sit down with him and watch a few of his favorites, not arguing, but watching with him so you can better understand where he is coming from. You might even find that these news programs aren’t the evil boogeyman that is depicted in the replies above.

By the way, this is coming from a Liberal Democrat, not some fan of Steven Crowder or what not. I’m just tired of acting like everyone who disagrees with us is evil/racist/homophobic/etc and think we need to sit down and meet in the middle.

Except Steven Crowder is all of those things, and the current wave of popular Republicans are all those things. If OP's son was under the influence of an Alex P. Keaton type of Republican it wouldn't be an issue. Folks like crowder are specifically targeting teenage boys with their toxic ideology similar to how ISIL recruits. It really isn't something to take the " it's no big deal" approach with.



I'd be tempted to do a major overhaul of his social media access.


OP, it comes down to this he's trying to bond with his dad, so he emulates the things he's into. You probably aren't going to get far debating him. But do keep a close eye on it. Maybe sharing videos from another guy who counterpoints Crowder would help?

He is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc from your viewpoint. From the conservative viewpoint, he is not any of those things. I’ve yet to see him involved with the KKK, arguing for segregation, or other solidified racist arguments. To OP’s son, his message is not hateful, and that is a valid perspective shared by our conservative friends in this country. All of this extremist talk, about how newscasters are racist because they say George Washington was a great man, or the alt-right is akin to ISIS because they both are groups where many young man gravitate towards is silly and does nothing but divide this country. We should be focused and mending this devide through understanding and tolerance.

You can stop pretending you're a liberal democrat now. Racism is not limited to spouting KK rhetoric, Look it up his racism, homophobia misogyny are on record, these things are not subjective and up for debate, OP is right to be concerned and take a hard line against it in her household..

Agree. It’s not limited to those things. It’s anything you want it to be nowadays, especially if it’s an opinion that differs from your own or an individual that you don’t care for. Extra points if it’s a conservative, because it’s surely not going to be anyone on the left. They’re incapable of racist or transphobic thoughts or rhetoric. Only those with a conservative viewpoint are.

You should get a youtube channel because you've nailed the "act like an ahole and play the victim" bit.

Sorry, but your entire political party and it’s ideology is built on being the victim. Every talking point, every sound bite, every bit of it is about being a VICTIM. And you spread that message through attacking others. I’m hardly surprised that you’ve resorted to name calling. That’s a sign of a week mind and a very little ground to stand on. Is there another name you’d like to call me, or are you waiting on this week’s outrage talking points from the media?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should listen OP- you might learn something. My 16 YO and his friends listen to Shapiro all the time.

You realize that you sound like a Karen to your son, don’t you?

All the 'karens" we know in my family are overgrown man children. I dont get this karen thing. 95 percent of the impatient complainers I deal with are male.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

These are not “really important questions”. He’s correct and I’m glad he’s gaining such a following among teens.

NP
I know this guy is quite famous as a conservative but which book(s) do you recommend a parent read in order to understand the gist of his arguments?
Asking in case my kids get interested in these topics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

It’s not about any particular thing he said but the overall pattern and content. Would you like to point to where he has done sustained reporting and thoughtful analysis intended to engage everyone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

These are not “really important questions”. He’s correct and I’m glad he’s gaining such a following among teens.

if they are not really important, why does he relentlessly pursue them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

These are not “really important questions”. He’s correct and I’m glad he’s gaining such a following among teens.

NP
I know this guy is quite famous as a conservative but which book(s) do you recommend a parent read in order to understand the gist of his arguments?
Asking in case my kids get interested in these topics.

He's got a terrible novel.

https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Terrible-Truth-of-Shapiros-True-Allegiance

The good guys are white and the bad guys are minorities.

[Anonymous]

OP:

You should take the time to listen to the "Rabbit Hole" podcast from the New York Times. The first few episodes show exactly how Youtube and other social media sites can guide someone from a 'funny conservative or a 'sarcastic liberal' down a "Rabbit Hole" of other content that leads to extremist outcomes.

https://www.nytimes.com/column/rabbit-hole

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Steven Crowder say that was sexist or racist? Let your kid have his own thoughts and opinions. My 17 year old daughter doesn’t share my political views but what I care about is that she backs up her opinions with evidence and examples. We like discussion and debate in our house.

We love it too. Just not the Steven Crowder kind. If you don't know how he is sexist or racist then you don't get it.

So then you’re the arbiter of all that’s sexist and racist, you get to decide. Got it. And you don’t have enough discussion at home on topics regarding sexism and racism so that your child could see this for himself and still make a call as to his own beliefs? I’m sorry, I am being snarky. But it’s like you’re saying “he can watch whatever he chooses to, unless I don’t like it.” SC isn’t my cup of tea at all, but there are a number of people who follow his logic and enjoy his show. You’re saying they’re all racist?

op’s dumb teen has logged on.

A brilliant response from someone who has nothing substantive to say. You can’t offer anything of value or consider a different opinion.

"DEBATE ME!"

Nah, I'm good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What did Steven Crowder say that was sexist or racist? Let your kid have his own thoughts and opinions. My 17 year old daughter doesn’t share my political views but what I care about is that she backs up her opinions with evidence and examples. We like discussion and debate in our house.

We love it too. Just not the Steven Crowder kind. If you don't know how he is sexist or racist then you don't get it.

So then you’re the arbiter of all that’s sexist and racist, you get to decide. Got it. And you don’t have enough discussion at home on topics regarding sexism and racism so that your child could see this for himself and still make a call as to his own beliefs? I’m sorry, I am being snarky. But it’s like you’re saying “he can watch whatever he chooses to, unless I don’t like it.” SC isn’t my cup of tea at all, but there are a number of people who follow his logic and enjoy his show. You’re saying they’re all racist?

op’s dumb teen has logged on.

A brilliant response from someone who has nothing substantive to say. You can’t offer anything of value or consider a different opinion.

"DEBATE ME!"

Nah, I'm good.

Nah, a debate would require some actual thought with something of substance to say. Nah, I’m good.