17yo son into Steven Crowder, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

+1 I love hearing people say they hate Ben Shapiro (Steven Crowder, heck even Fox News) but when you ask why they can’t point to anything actually said. They just know other people say they’re terrible. Ben Shapiro is hilarious, incredibly smart, and I’d love it if my kids could debate like him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

This is 100% false. I listen to his radio show and podcast. You obviously do not. I don’t agree with everything he says but he talks about a lot of issues, history, philosophy, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

Seriously? You’re going to quote ONE TWEET. Do you get sarcasm and humor at all or no?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

Seriously? You’re going to quote ONE TWEET. Do you get sarcasm and humor at all or no?

That was him on climate. If I wanted him on "sarcasm and humor" I would link to him writing about WAP. Hilarious stuff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So he has different political views then you? That is perfectly fine, and the fact you are on here asking how to stop him is a sad testament to the state of our political discourse right now.

Make sure he knows you love him no matter what, and he is welcome to enjoy whatever political discourse he wants. Maybe schedule some time to sit down with him and watch a few of his favorites, not arguing, but watching with him so you can better understand where he is coming from. You might even find that these news programs aren’t the evil boogeyman that is depicted in the replies above.

By the way, this is coming from a Liberal Democrat, not some fan of Steven Crowder or what not. I’m just tired of acting like everyone who disagrees with us is evil/racist/homophobic/etc and think we need to sit down and meet in the middle.

Except Steven Crowder is all of those things, and the current wave of popular Republicans are all those things. If OP's son was under the influence of an Alex P. Keaton type of Republican it wouldn't be an issue. Folks like crowder are specifically targeting teenage boys with their toxic ideology similar to how ISIL recruits. It really isn't something to take the " it's no big deal" approach with.



I'd be tempted to do a major overhaul of his social media access.


OP, it comes down to this he's trying to bond with his dad, so he emulates the things he's into. You probably aren't going to get far debating him. But do keep a close eye on it. Maybe sharing videos from another guy who counterpoints Crowder would help?

He is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc from your viewpoint. From the conservative viewpoint, he is not any of those things. I’ve yet to see him involved with the KKK, arguing for segregation, or other solidified racist arguments. To OP’s son, his message is not hateful, and that is a valid perspective shared by our conservative friends in this country. All of this extremist talk, about how newscasters are racist because they say George Washington was a great man, or the alt-right is akin to ISIS because they both are groups where many young man gravitate towards is silly and does nothing but divide this country. We should be focused and mending this devide through understanding and tolerance.

You can stop pretending you're a liberal democrat now. Racism is not limited to spouting KK rhetoric, Look it up his racism, homophobia misogyny are on record, these things are not subjective and up for debate, OP is right to be concerned and take a hard line against it in her household..

Agree. It’s not limited to those things. It’s anything you want it to be nowadays, especially if it’s an opinion that differs from your own or an individual that you don’t care for. Extra points if it’s a conservative, because it’s surely not going to be anyone on the left. They’re incapable of racist or transphobic thoughts or rhetoric. Only those with a conservative viewpoint are.

You should get a youtube channel because you've nailed the "act like an ahole and play the victim" bit.

Sorry, but your entire political party and it’s ideology is built on being the victim. Every talking point, every sound bite, every bit of it is about being a VICTIM. And you spread that message through attacking others. I’m hardly surprised that you’ve resorted to name calling. That’s a sign of a week mind and a very little ground to stand on. Is there another name you’d like to call me, or are you waiting on this week’s outrage talking points from the media?

I think Twitter put it best:

Conservatives: Actually if you think about it ... SHOULD everyone be allowed to vote?

Everyone: holy shit

Conservatives: here’s why it’s good the police just murdered another child

Everyone: wtf

Conservatives: also I’m afraid to say what’s really on my mind

Everyone: ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

Seriously? You’re going to quote ONE TWEET. Do you get sarcasm and humor at all or no?

That was him on climate. If I wanted him on "sarcasm and humor" I would link to him writing about WAP. Hilarious stuff.

Sometimes I think of folks like Ben Shapiro or Jordan Peterson as a kind of intellectual "honey pot" that's useful in determining who exactly are the stupidest living Americans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

This is 100% false. I listen to his radio show and podcast. You obviously do not. I don’t agree with everything he says but he talks about a lot of issues, history, philosophy, etc.

This brings to mind the incredible scene from "A Fish Called Wanda" where Otto, barely keeping it together, says "Apes don't read philosophy."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

Seriously? You’re going to quote ONE TWEET. Do you get sarcasm and humor at all or no?

You realize that's a video, not a tweet right? The video was IN a tweet but that was just Ben Shapiro giving a talk not tweeting. That's what he thinks a serious argument is.

[Anonymous]

I'm liberal but I like Steven Crowder challenging people to think for themselves. His "change my mind" segments are great. As liberals, we're too used to bullying (yes, bullying) people into agreeing with us and by taking a moral high ground. Crowder, although super annoying, makes people actually substantiate what they're saying.

If you can listen to Crowder and refute what he says, logically and without appealing to baseless emotion, that's great. I challenge OP to do just that instead of whining about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

It’s not about any particular thing he said but the overall pattern and content. Would you like to point to where he has done sustained reporting and thoughtful analysis intended to engage everyone?

DP but sure. His books are incredibly engaging and intelligent. You might try reading one. He talks about the history of philosophy, political history, “first principles,” constitutional law, the media, free speech, all kinds of issues. He was a fierce anti Trumper and criticized him often. He did like some of Trump’s policies, but was one of the few conservatives who didn’t fall into the worship trump or never Trump either/or dichotomy. He criticized openly and defended when he saw Trump’s policies were right (even though he didn’t really like him). He has done “sustained reporting and thoughtful analysis designed to engage everyone” since he became the youngest syndicated newspaper columnist at age 17.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

At it's best, it is profoundly dumb:

https://twitter.com/exiliaex/status/1067498796379250695

Seriously? You’re going to quote ONE TWEET. Do you get sarcasm and humor at all or no?

You realize that's a video, not a tweet right? The video was IN a tweet but that was just Ben Shapiro giving a talk not tweeting. That's what he thinks a serious argument is.

It's a Dunning-Kruger adjacent problem: One clearly needs a minimum level of expertise in order to vet the claims and evaluate the arguments BS makes. The less capable you are, the more capable BS appears. The effect is magnified because the BS grift is oriented around telling his audience *exactly* what it is they want to hear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm liberal but I like Steven Crowder challenging people to think for themselves. His "change my mind" segments are great. As liberals, we're too used to bullying (yes, bullying) people into agreeing with us and by taking a moral high ground. Crowder, although super annoying, makes people actually substantiate what they're saying.

If you can listen to Crowder and refute what he says, logically and without appealing to baseless emotion, that's great. I challenge OP to do just that instead of whining about it.

I'm as conservative as they come, but I think Crowder is garbage, and I want my kid to be able to argue with respect and decency:

In June 2019, YouTube investigated Crowder for using racist and homophobic slurs targeting Carlos Maza in multiple videos reacting to the Vox series Strikethrough, which Maza hosts. Crowder referred to Maza as "Mr. Lispy queer", an "angry little queer", and a "gay Mexican", and mocked him with a stereotypical gay voice, sometimes while wearing a t-shirt with Che Guevara on it that said "Socialism is for f*gs [sic]".[3] In addition, Maza said that Crowder's fans have doxxed and harassed him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tell me this is just a phase. I can’t handle it. Yes I have warned him and educated him about alt-right recruitment as well as how to do your own research about topics and to get information rather than rely on inflammatory videos, etc.

He likes to debate with me and argue with me about it a lot - topics that this guy talks about, etc. I know this is how they form their views of the world and he’s only a junior in high school. But I can’t rely on his dad to refute this stuff as he’s pretty libertarian/conservative.

I won’t be able to handle my kid being a Ben Shapiro acolyte.

What exactly has Ben Shapiro said that you don’t like?
(He’s an observant Jewish man from Harvard.)

he spends all his time trying to disprove that systemic racism and sexism exist. he’s more interested in p0wning the libs than reporting on issues, analyzing issues, or elucidating values. in short he’s an entertainer making a buck on polarizing discussion about really important questions.

Again, what exactly did he say that you don’t like?

It’s not about any particular thing he said but the overall pattern and content. Would you like to point to where he has done sustained reporting and thoughtful analysis intended to engage everyone?

DP but sure. His books are incredibly engaging and intelligent. You might try reading one. He talks about the history of philosophy, political history, “first principles,” constitutional law, the media, free speech, all kinds of issues. He was a fierce anti Trumper and criticized him often. He did like some of Trump’s policies, but was one of the few conservatives who didn’t fall into the worship trump or never Trump either/or dichotomy. He criticized openly and defended when he saw Trump’s policies were right (even though he didn’t really like him). He has done “sustained reporting and thoughtful analysis designed to engage everyone” since he became the youngest syndicated newspaper columnist at age 17.

Another DP. I think Shapiro can make some great arguments and he does have data to back them up.

Would it ever occur to PPs who point to his "overall pattern and content" that sometimes he has a point? Or, are you putting your ear muffs on and refuse to listen?

I don't always agree with him. But, I'm open to thinking about things differently and considering other opinions than the party line. Everyone should go beyond their comfort zone and confront their bias occasionally.

[Anonymous]

If you're a functioning adult and so are unfamiliar with juvenile right-wing grifters on YouTube, here's a good introduction. What happens when BS accidentally engages with someone who isn't a 17-year-old college coed:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6-TFpmix54

[Anonymous]

If you're a functioning adult and so are unfamiliar with juvenile right-wing grifters on YouTube, here's a little taste: