Private schools are indefensible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The author is Caitlin Flanagan which makes every single word suspect. She is not remotely a trustworthy journalist.

Could you elaborate on this?

There aren't enough hours in the day to describe Flanagan's long history of writing articles/books that are little more than anti-women screeds that play fast and loose with the truth. I'm honestly surprised anyone takes her remotely seriously at this point. There has been a ton written about her very problematic history but here are a few old, old links, to show you how far back this goes:

https://www.salon.com/2012/01/19/the_creepy_condescension_of_caitlin_flanagan/
https://observer.com/2004/06/the-antifeminist-mystique/
https://slate.com/human-interest/2006/04/caitlin-flanagan-s-to-hell-with-all-that

Also, this article is published in the Atlantic, which seems to be making a habit of writing articles that play fast and loose with the truth lately (look up their retracted elite sports article).

It all smells of falsehoods and lies.

[Anonymous]

The problem is that public schools are expected to do much more than educate children. They provide social services, distribute food, offer healthcare, and childcare. Teachers are there to teach, but the school as an institution has far more responsibilities to meet the needs of the local community than they have the capacity or budget to.
Private schools certainly don't have to grapple with those social challenges, and they can focus on delivering on educating the student academically, physically, and emotionally.
We're leaving MCPS for private HS in September, not because we don't believe in public education, but because this strain on public schools has become so apparent during the pandemic. We'll miss being with kids with true grit, determined to excel and driven to get into the best colleges. But the top 5% of students in public schools are being dragged down by all the other competing issues facing public school administrators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

here are over 1,000 universities in the US. Why focus so much on the 10-20 "elite" universities. People can and do perfectly well at any of the other universities

The whole premise of the article is that there shouldn't be elite private high schools. And her reason for that is because these private schools send too many to elite private COLLEGES.

I'm confused. Logical fallacy here. Illogical premises.

+1

I have yet to read a Caitlin Flanagan article that shows a rigorous devotion to logical thinking. Or, really, any devotion to logical thinking.

[Anonymous]

The link doesn't work anymore!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that public schools are expected to do much more than educate children. They provide social services, distribute food, offer healthcare, and childcare. Teachers are there to teach, but the school as an institution has far more responsibilities to meet the needs of the local community than they have the capacity or budget to.
Private schools certainly don't have to grapple with those social challenges, and they can focus on delivering on educating the student academically, physically, and emotionally.
We're leaving MCPS for private HS in September, not because we don't believe in public education, but because this strain on public schools has become so apparent during the pandemic. We'll miss being with kids with true grit, determined to excel and driven to get into the best colleges. But the top 5% of students in public schools are being dragged down by all the other competing issues facing public school administrators.

I call BS on your last elitist point. All students are being dragged down by an overburdened system that is stretched too thin to focus on education. In addition, irony of it all is that the constant focus on addressing the achievement gap actually undermines the ability to help the students who need it most.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed in this article, actually. We are new to private school this year (covid) and have done a lot of hand-wringing over whether moving to, or staying in, private school aligns with our values. So I came to this with an open mind and read the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is just a string of anecdotes about the excesses of very wealthy parents. It does not make arguments against private schools, other than that there's a huge equity problem in education. The author waits until the final paragraphs to acknowledge that public schools are broken, and that in a just society private schools wouldn't need to exist. Another way of saying that is that the school situation is a symptom not the problem.

A better article would have looked like this:
1. The state of public schools is indefensible.
2. The existence of private schools is a response to the state of public schools and, even more, to the inequalities we have created while pretending that merit drives success.
3. Both 1 and 2 are the result of profound disagreements in this country about what school is for, and what we are all obligated to do in support of the public good.

There will always be very wealthy, very demanding parents who provide something different for their kids -- in the old days, these people's children were educated at home with governors and tutors. Their existence doesn't need to affect education policy one way or the other, which is why this article's focus on them is disappointing.

number 2 is demonstrably false. Privates have existed for as long as there have been schools in this country- the oldest literally predate the county.

Yes. My son attended one that was established a couple of decades prior to the US. Until you start visiting the schools, you don't really have a good concept of what they offier. It's astonishing in terms of the facilities, the faculty, and the fellow students. Those schools really are several levels above-and-beyond. It was pretty eye opening to me. (I went to public schools, none of my classmates were billionaires... )

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The link doesn't work anymore!

Technical glitch or enough provable falsehoods that they had to take it down? Hm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem is that public schools are expected to do much more than educate children. They provide social services, distribute food, offer healthcare, and childcare. Teachers are there to teach, but the school as an institution has far more responsibilities to meet the needs of the local community than they have the capacity or budget to.
Private schools certainly don't have to grapple with those social challenges, and they can focus on delivering on educating the student academically, physically, and emotionally.

Non-elite private schools with a substantial proportion of low income students do these things too, often with the assistance of government funds for these purposes.

I think the biggest difference is that even the non-elite privates are able to take a pass on the students with the most severe behavioral issues and/or special needs, while public schools have to educate them or pay a ton of money to send them to very specialized privates in the most serious cases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ The point is that the most elite privates are over represented at the most elite colleges and universities and the author is correct”

I can speak to this a bit. I went to an Ivy college from public and actually worked as a college admissions counselor a bit. I don’t think my kids need to go to elite private schools.

In fact - i think grad school & im going to encourage my kids to go to public college & save money for grad school.

good for you, it doesn't change the fact that elite privates sends disproportionate numbers of students to elite colleges

So do certain public’s—the issue is mor about class than private v public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The link doesn't work anymore!

Technical glitch or enough provable falsehoods that they had to take it down? Hm.

If you look right under the "404" there is a link to the article. They appear to have changed the title from Indefensible to Obscene.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“ The point is that the most elite privates are over represented at the most elite colleges and universities and the author is correct”

I can speak to this a bit. I went to an Ivy college from public and actually worked as a college admissions counselor a bit. I don’t think my kids need to go to elite private schools.

In fact - i think grad school & im going to encourage my kids to go to public college & save money for grad school.

good for you, it doesn't change the fact that elite privates sends disproportionate numbers of students to elite colleges

Maybe that’s only a correlation and not a causation. Like those kids would go anyway - no matter where they went to school. I don’t personally believe school makes much difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
[Report Post]

This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

this is what the author wrote "Less than 2 percent of the nation’s students attend so-called independent schools. But 24 percent of Yale’s class of 2024 attended an independent school. At Princeton, that figure is 25 percent. At Brown and Dartmouth, it is higher still: 29 percent." are they incorrect? [/quote]


This isn't surprising . People who can afford to pay $40,000 for private school can afford to pay for these colleges. It doesn't mean that attending the private school was a bonus in admission. Generally, it's actually a detriment.
I know many public school kids who got into top colleges but didn't go because their parents couldn't afford it and they made too much to qualify for aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed in this article, actually. We are new to private school this year (covid) and have done a lot of hand-wringing over whether moving to, or staying in, private school aligns with our values. So I came to this with an open mind and read the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is just a string of anecdotes about the excesses of very wealthy parents. It does not make arguments against private schools, other than that there's a huge equity problem in education. The author waits until the final paragraphs to acknowledge that public schools are broken, and that in a just society private schools wouldn't need to exist. Another way of saying that is that the school situation is a symptom not the problem.

A better article would have looked like this:
1. The state of public schools is indefensible.
2. The existence of private schools is a response to the state of public schools and, even more, to the inequalities we have created while pretending that merit drives success.
3. Both 1 and 2 are the result of profound disagreements in this country about what school is for, and what we are all obligated to do in support of the public good.

There will always be very wealthy, very demanding parents who provide something different for their kids -- in the old days, these people's children were educated at home with governors and tutors. Their existence doesn't need to affect education policy one way or the other, which is why this article's focus on them is disappointing.

What's wrong with the state of public schools? Public schools are fine, and despite what many claim, they typically have far more resources than private schools do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was disappointed in this article, actually. We are new to private school this year (covid) and have done a lot of hand-wringing over whether moving to, or staying in, private school aligns with our values. So I came to this with an open mind and read the whole thing.

Unfortunately this is just a string of anecdotes about the excesses of very wealthy parents. It does not make arguments against private schools, other than that there's a huge equity problem in education. The author waits until the final paragraphs to acknowledge that public schools are broken, and that in a just society private schools wouldn't need to exist. Another way of saying that is that the school situation is a symptom not the problem.

A better article would have looked like this:
1. The state of public schools is indefensible.
2. The existence of private schools is a response to the state of public schools and, even more, to the inequalities we have created while pretending that merit drives success.
3. Both 1 and 2 are the result of profound disagreements in this country about what school is for, and what we are all obligated to do in support of the public good.

There will always be very wealthy, very demanding parents who provide something different for their kids -- in the old days, these people's children were educated at home with governors and tutors. Their existence doesn't need to affect education policy one way or the other, which is why this article's focus on them is disappointing.

What's wrong with the state of public schools? Public schools are fine, and despite what many claim, they typically have far more resources than private schools do.

IMO publics should have opened when allowed this year. I didn’t have a major problem with fcps prior to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2021/...hools-are-indefensible/618078/

Don’t let the title turn you off and give this a read!

This article was SO good and thought provoking. None of it was surprised because I figured things were the way they were regarding the chasm between private school and public schools; As well as the wealthy and everyone else.

The world has gotten more competitive. Hence the obsession with getting kids into the right school. Furthermore, I do think it’s unfair that public schools don’t have the same amount of resources as private school. I always knew they had more but I didn’t realize they had *that much more*. It’s no wonder that so many people that make it to the top come from private schools. It feels as if there are no hope for regular public school kids.

Again, really think that every parent should give this a read. Would love to hear everyone’s thoughts!
[Report Post]

This is nonsense. 70% of students at top colleges are from public schools and always have been.

this is what the author wrote "Less than 2 percent of the nation’s students attend so-called independent schools. But 24 percent of Yale’s class of 2024 attended an independent school. At Princeton, that figure is 25 percent. At Brown and Dartmouth, it is higher still: 29 percent." are they incorrect? [/quote]


This isn't surprising . People who can afford to pay $40,000 for private school can afford to pay for these colleges. It doesn't mean that attending the private school was a bonus in admission. Generally, it's actually a detriment.
I know many public school kids who got into top colleges but didn't go because their parents couldn't afford it and they made too much to qualify for aid.

All of the listed schools are need blind