Lawsuit against TJ admissions changes

[Anonymous]

http://thebullelephant.com/lawsuit-against-fcps-on-behalf-of-students-applying-to-tjhsst/

The complaint alleges, and I personally agree, that a work session of the School Board is not the proper forum to resolve such a controversial matter and that public comments should have been allowed prior to a final judgment being rendered. Specifically, the complaint states at paragraph 69 that: “For the October 6, 2020 work session, the published agenda did not advise the public that potential admissions changes would be brought to a vote. On the contrary, the published agenda made it appear that potential changes would only be a matter of information and discussion.”

It’s probable that a Fairfax County Circuit Court judge will take a look at this complaint and send this matter back to the School Board with a requirement that the board allow for public comments. In other words, in my opinion it is likely the court will issue a preliminary injunction preventing for the present time the elimination of standardized testing in the admissions process. It is unlikely that any judge will impose a permanent freeze whereby admission standards at TJ can’t be changed no matter what the circumstances are.

The plaintiffs are represented by Bill Hurd and Chris Carlson of Troutman, Pepper, Hamilton, Sanders, LLC. Bill Hurd is one of Virginia’s most prestigious attorneys and was Virginia’s Solicitor General from 1999-2004. Given the complexity of this matter it is my guess Mr. Hurd and Mr. Carlson spent a considerable amount of time researching and drafting this complaint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

Is it a problem, people can do what they want as long they don’t interfere others
I remember watching Hoops movie where 2 kids try to make it to nba
I heard in Venezuela there is interest in beauty competitions
It is their choice

[Anonymous]

That complaint is stupid. Why are the parents' occupations mentioned? All 3 of our kids were admitted to TJ but we're lawyers - how did that happen?

And they have no idea if those kids would've gotten in under the old system. There have been many, many kids over the years who've won math or science awards who haven't gotten in to TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this lawsuit funded by conservatives who want to destroy education and public schools too, like the Harvard lawsuit was?

The Harvard case was funded by Heritage / DeVos types, and argued by a Heritage lawyer.

This case is a trifecta for rightwing billionaires, who find it politically useful to harm
public schools (to shrink government to cut taxes on the rich), useful to damage education at all levels as with Harvard (because education makes people vote against their party, see Trump “I love the poorly educated”), and useful to inflame racial division (because the billionaires’ voters are vast majority white people and the Democrats depend on a coalition across races).

I saw that at least one conservative group had filed an amicus brief, but I didn’t see who was paying for or arguing the lawsuit.

It was not.

[Anonymous]

So I have no dog in this fight, but find the entire TJ admissions issue fascinating. A few things that I’m wondering:

1) How will the the impact of test prep affect this case? Could FCPS argue that the former system was admitted the prepped vs the gifted? (I know Curie has been debated on this board - 128 kids in the class of 2024 did a 14 month long prep program). Is scoring high on the TJ admissions test = gifted? Or can FCPS argue that it doesn’t = gifted? Does it even matter since there is plain language in the law that there must be an aptitude test?

2) I found the section in the complaint about how the school board violated process by voting in a working group vs open meeting interesting. Process matters and it’s seems like the layer raises a valid point.

3) what will FCPS do if they are ordered by a judge to give a test? Many families won’t want their children going into a school building for a multi-hour test. There are also probably a small subset where it is not a question of “comfort” but of a true medical risk. How will they pull off offering a test?

4) would they drop the Govenors school designation? This could be messy because LCPS and APS and PWCS helped pay for the renovation. (I think???). Could the school districts sue FCPS for the funds to be returned?

Will be interesting to watch for sure!

[Anonymous]

If it ain't woke its broke.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If it ain't woke its broke.

That's catchy. I like it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is this lawsuit funded by conservatives who want to destroy education and public schools too, like the Harvard lawsuit was?

The Harvard case was funded by Heritage / DeVos types, and argued by a Heritage lawyer.

This case is a trifecta for rightwing billionaires, who find it politically useful to harm
public schools (to shrink government to cut taxes on the rich), useful to damage education at all levels as with Harvard (because education makes people vote against their party, see Trump “I love the poorly educated”), and useful to inflame racial division (because the billionaires’ voters are vast majority white people and the Democrats depend on a coalition across races).

I saw that at least one conservative group had filed an amicus brief, but I didn’t see who was paying for or arguing the lawsuit.

QAnon much?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

You think their lawyers didn't advice them on this before they filed a lawsuit? As to FCPS "just turning the school back to local" .. not that easy. Remember, other jurisdictions funded portions of this school. They will want their money back. TJ should rightfully have been managed by a body that consists of reps from all counties that send kids there, not just FCPS. They will ask for that and take TJ decisions out of FCPS hands. On boy! What a mess wokeness brings..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

We know enough kids that play 3-4 sports, some year-around and put in more hours than these kids do. What's your point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always amazing to me how parents judge other parent's choices. Do what is best for your family and your individual child. Stop worrying about what activities or academic prep other parents choose. Trust both your own judgement and the judgement of other parents to do what works for them. Everyone had different child rearing strategies and that is okay.

So is changing the admissions criteria to foster a more representative student body.

PP here - I fully support the new TJ admissions system. My DS is a TJ senior (and no, he didn't prep and wastes hours on Fortnite) and DS agrees that diversity would improve the school and that plenty of kids at his Title I MS would have thrived at TJ if they got in. Not sure why you thought I didn't support? I just am constantly amazed on thread after thread - TJ/AAP - where posters judge the decisions of other parents and how they choose to raise their kids - academics, athletics, screen time, etc. It is hard enough to raise your own kids - stop worrying how someone else is raising theirs.

I think some PPs are saying that it would be better if more kids were allowed in that didn't need the extra prep to be admitted. It's not just an hour or two, it is much more than that per week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

We know enough kids that play 3-4 sports, some year-around and put in more hours than these kids do. What's your point?

It’s almost unheard of that a parent plans and preps like they do for a sport for tj. I’m talking about a parental plan from the time the kid is one onward. This is not a kid being athletic and fostering it. It’s a plan about a kid and you make it fit. You cram every activity and learning experience in to make your plan. No one is doing that with a one year old for other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

We know enough kids that play 3-4 sports, some year-around and put in more hours than these kids do. What's your point?

It’s almost unheard of that a parent plans and preps like they do for a sport for tj. I’m talking about a parental plan from the time the kid is one onward. This is not a kid being athletic and fostering it. It’s a plan about a kid and you make it fit. You cram every activity and learning experience in to make your plan. No one is doing that with a one year old for other activities.

It is pretty standard for kids in Asia to study around the clock. I’m grateful that I grew up in America and my kids are able to enjoy their childhood. I’m sure some people may consider me a Tiger mom. I have very high standards for my kids. We do everything listed above. We also travel a ton, host lots of play dates and parties, go on fun outings, watch movies, read books, etc. I am not grooming my kids for TJ.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

We know enough kids that play 3-4 sports, some year-around and put in more hours than these kids do. What's your point?

It’s almost unheard of that a parent plans and preps like they do for a sport for tj. I’m talking about a parental plan from the time the kid is one onward. This is not a kid being athletic and fostering it. It’s a plan about a kid and you make it fit. You cram every activity and learning experience in to make your plan. No one is doing that with a one year old for other activities.

It is pretty standard for kids in Asia to study around the clock. I’m grateful that I grew up in America and my kids are able to enjoy their childhood. I’m sure some people may consider me a Tiger mom. I have very high standards for my kids. We do everything listed above. We also travel a ton, host lots of play dates and parties, go on fun outings, watch movies, read books, etc. I am not grooming my kids for TJ.

That's the bottomline to get a DCUM pardon and approval of excessive behavior. You can squeeze your kids dry claiming they had "natural talent" and coach them in math, racquetball, fencing or lacrosse as long as your objective is not TJ. College is fine. All DCUM hyper-moms are doing this and more to get them into HYPS or a "Top-10 Liberal arts school".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

You think their lawyers didn't advice them on this before they filed a lawsuit? As to FCPS "just turning the school back to local" .. not that easy. Remember, other jurisdictions funded portions of this school. They will want their money back. TJ should rightfully have been managed by a body that consists of reps from all counties that send kids there, not just FCPS. They will ask for that and take TJ decisions out of FCPS hands. On boy! What a mess wokeness brings..

Lawyers usually get paid to file complaints even when those complaints get dismissed.

FCPS could compensate other jurisdictions for less than it would have to pay to add seats for county students elsewhere.

But I’m guessing you know that already and just don’t care about those at other overcrowded schools.