Lawsuit against TJ admissions changes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

Shut down the number 1 high school in the entire country because a court won't let you be woke?

[Anonymous]

I agree. Let the court decide what is legal or illegal for FCPS Board to do here and live with the result either way.

[Anonymous]

The "Governor's School" defense won't work for AAP. Let's at least get that fixed for URM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

Not the path I chose for my children, but I am willing to bet these kids are going to be outstanding adults and contributors to society. If they were training to be Olympic gymnasts or something, we would be applauding their dedication and fortitude.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

Shut down the number 1 high school in the entire country because a court won't let you be woke?

You don't need an injury-in-fact as part of standing to get an injunction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

Not the path I chose for my children, but I am willing to bet these kids are going to be outstanding adults and contributors to society. If they were training to be Olympic gymnasts or something, we would be applauding their dedication and fortitude.

This. 100% this.

-Parent with kids with learning differences that would never even consider TJ, but I would move to get my kid better educational resources if other jurisdictions did a better job than mine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

Not the path I chose for my children, but I am willing to bet these kids are going to be outstanding adults and contributors to society. If they were training to be Olympic gymnasts or something, we would be applauding their dedication and fortitude.

One of my kids went to TJ. She did none of the kind of prep described above. My neighbor wants her 6 year old to go. I tried to explain that her 6 year old might be a humanities kid, might not like STEM, might not make the cut. My older kid refused to take the TJ test. I feel sorry for kids whose parents don't give them a choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

Shut down the number 1 high school in the entire country because a court won't let you be woke?

It wouldn’t be shut down. If anything, more kids from the county would attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They at least hired a real law firm, but it's still mostly a publicity stunt. You can tell by the way the complaint unnecessarily details the jobs of the parents, as if that's somehow relevant to who attends TJ. Note: It isn't; it's just PR about how uniquely hard-working and "deserving" these Asian parents think of themselves and their children.

The most significant claim is that VA law requires admissions to Governor's Schools to be based, at least in part, on the type of test that FCPS decided to eliminate this year (although the exigencies of Covid-19 may provide an out there for FCPS). Also, it's not clear any of the plaintiffs (middle school students) would actually have standing until they've been turned down from TJ, which hasn't happened yet.

And if the plaintiffs made any headway, FCPS could just decide to turn TJ back into a local school. A court isn't going to force a county school board to operate one of its schools as a Governor's School. But perhaps that's what they really want - if TJ can't continue to serve 70-75% test-prepped Asian kids primarily from three middle schools, they'll do what they can to make sure the magnet program gets shut down entirely.

Shut down the number 1 high school in the entire country because a court won't let you be woke?

You don't need an injury-in-fact as part of standing to get an injunction.

You can’t show irreparable harm when you haven’t actually been turned away.

[Anonymous]

Nor is the public interest element necessary for an injunction obviously available, when those charged with acting in the interests of students have concluded a new approach is preferable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Always amazing to me how parents judge other parent's choices. Do what is best for your family and your individual child. Stop worrying about what activities or academic prep other parents choose. Trust both your own judgement and the judgement of other parents to do what works for them. Everyone had different child rearing strategies and that is okay.

So is changing the admissions criteria to foster a more representative student body.

What should the student body look like?

Should the student body look similar to the demographics that applied, or the county as a whole? As it stands right now, the demographics that apply don't look like the whole county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read another article where they interviewed some of the plaintiffs and included parents who were upset that their kids who had been prepping for the entrance exam for a while might not get a shot. One parent moved to VA when the kid was a baby thinking he wanted the kid to go to TJ. In other words, they are proving the stereotypes right.

It really is sad. They don’t even realize what they’re saying.

This. They moved in 2009 because of tj. The kid is a 7th grader. He’s likely 12.
We have have a family friend who did this. Their daughter is a freshman there now. It was their goal since she was 2. Nearly every minute of the child’s life has been structured:
- piano
- athletic practices/games
- tj prep classes
- enrichment classes
- writing classes
- academic competitions

Etc. imagine that every since weekend and weeknight for a decade. One two week vacation each year and the rest was some commitment all the time.

This is considered normal in east asia.

To us you all seem wierd.

I posted upthread that my boys did similar but they also do scouts, art, etc.

A few years ago, I felt slightly bad making my kids do some extra math. I am Korean. My kids are mixed. When I hear about the amount my relatives study in Korea, I don’t feel bad at all that my kids do an extra hour here and there. I did grow up in the US and know that academics are not everything. My kids did debate, are interested in the stock market and politics. They also can ski black, have a great golf swing and excellent swimmers. I try to expose them to a lot and let them pick what interests them most. They are the ones who want to do everything minus the extra academics.

[Anonymous]

The families have standing based on the allegations that 1. The FCPS Board will be violating state law by getting rid of the test, and 2. their children are being denied an opportunity (imminent threatened harm is the injury-in-fact) based on violation of the law if it goes forward. And the harm is irreparable because they will be out of the window for admission if the case proceeds at a normal pace. Not saying I think they will win, but I do think they have standing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The families have standing based on the allegations that 1. The FCPS Board will be violating state law by getting rid of the test, and 2. their children are being denied an opportunity (imminent threatened harm is the injury-in-fact) based on violation of the law if it goes forward. And the harm is irreparable because they will be out of the window for admission if the case proceeds at a normal pace. Not saying I think they will win, but I do think they have standing.

Yeah, no. There is no irreparable harm. The students are not being denied an opportunity to apply to TJ, nor would their admission to TJ under the current process be assured (we are just asked to assume the students would be admitted, but of course there are other qualified applicants). And, of course, the equitable considerations include FCPS’s reasonable interest in operating a magnet school that serves students from a wide cross-section of the county and not just a few middle-school feeders.

So it’s an uphill battle, but in any event even if successful would only go to the conditions that must exist if FCPS wants to continue to operate a Governor’s School - not whether it should do so (which remains within FCPS’s discretion). That is why any “victory” for the plaintiffs would at best likely be of the pyrrhic variety.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The families have standing based on the allegations that 1. The FCPS Board will be violating state law by getting rid of the test, and 2. their children are being denied an opportunity (imminent threatened harm is the injury-in-fact) based on violation of the law if it goes forward. And the harm is irreparable because they will be out of the window for admission if the case proceeds at a normal pace. Not saying I think they will win, but I do think they have standing.

Yeah, no. There is no irreparable harm. The students are not being denied an opportunity to apply to TJ, nor would their admission to TJ under the current process be assured (we are just asked to assume the students would be admitted, but of course there are other qualified applicants). And, of course, the equitable considerations include FCPS’s reasonable interest in operating a magnet school that serves students from a wide cross-section of the county and not just a few middle-school feeders.

So it’s an uphill battle, but in any event even if successful would only go to the conditions that must exist if FCPS wants to continue to operate a Governor’s School - not whether it should do so (which remains within FCPS’s discretion). That is why any “victory” for the plaintiffs would at best likely be of the pyrrhic variety.

Please stop talking about things you don't understand.

Should we believe your free advice on the internet or the plaintiffs' complaint by their lawyer, William Hurd, a former Virginia Solicitor General who argued major cases in front of the U.S. Supreme Court?

The state law is clear about requiring an aptitude test.