Coach Cheated!!!

[Anonymous]

It is not normal to have guest players in 6th grade basketball!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There aren’t enough specifics here to make a judgment call. It’s common for soccer teams to enter tournaments but add players from off the team, because not everyone from the regular season team can play in the tournament, or there are some good players someone knows who could boost the team’s chances of success in the tournament. There’s nothing unusual about that, and it isn’t wrong unless rules are broken. If other parents looked at you like you have two heads when you used the team’s regular season name, this could be why. They aren’t necessarily playing as that team. Sometimes 2 teams merge and take on a new name for tournaments.

I would downshift considerably before jumping to conclusions about the coach’s behavior.

They looked at me blankly because they didn't even know the name of the team. Only the color. Because their kids was not a member of the team or invested in the team in any way -- had not practiced with them every week, joined in their wins and losses, etc.

Everyone from our team was available, healthy and showed up to play. Are you saying it's still okay to bring in kids who are at a higher skill level than the competition so they can win?

That's news to me. I'm not into sports other than as a parent, so if this is the case, I'm surprised.

Yes it is. Kids that can't make a higher level team will grow playing with better and faster kids. It's 6th grade, this is not world cup and while winning can feel good it is basically meaningless.

Sometimes coaches will pull a kid or two up to challenge them.

The rules limit the # of guest players but it is all legal.

Why would they be challenging them during a championship game? I can see doing that during practices but these kids had a right to win or lose together as a team. I agree that winning is meaningless -- which is why my opinion of the couch has dropped to the floor.

They have a right to do what the league says they have a right to do, as does the coach.

[Anonymous]

So let me see if I have this right:
- Your kid won a championship
- Your kid's basketball coach brought in a couple ringers to play on the team
- No one complained, not even the opposing team, the opposing coach, the refs or other parties that have a stake in the outcome of the game and who probably are familiar with the rules
- You, a parent who is not involved, other than maybe showing up to a couple games during the season, doesn't recognize some players and decides the coach is a cheat
- You, a parent who does not know the rules of the sport or you league, want to crucify a coach for what may be completely legal in the rule book
- You, a parent who presumably loves your son, wants to ruin his friendships that he's made on his team by calling out their coach and sullying the championship that they won, without knowing if what the coach did was within the rules.

Let me be clear. I'm not condoning cheating. What reeks here is your accusations of cheating without having any understanding of the rules of the game or the league. You don't know if the coach cheated or not. Why don't you research the rules first and make a determination if he cheated, before throwing around wild accusations.

It's parents like you, who cry foul or name call, without any facts, that make after school activities miserable for kids. Your kid had fun and won a championship.

Why would you go looking for trouble where there is none?

Now, if your kid was upset that they lost playing time to ringer or did not get to play, then that is a legitimate beef. But that's not the case.

Chill out. Or pick up a whistle and help the coach train up the boys to get better so that they don't need ringers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So let me see if I have this right:
- Your kid won a championship
- Your kid's basketball coach brought in a couple ringers to play on the team
- No one complained, not even the opposing team, the opposing coach, the refs or other parties that have a stake in the outcome of the game and who probably are familiar with the rules
- You, a parent who is not involved, other than maybe showing up to a couple games during the season, doesn't recognize some players and decides the coach is a cheat
- You, a parent who does not know the rules of the sport or you league, want to crucify a coach for what may be completely legal in the rule book
- You, a parent who presumably loves your son, wants to ruin his friendships that he's made on his team by calling out their coach and sullying the championship that they won, without knowing if what the coach did was within the rules.

Let me be clear. I'm not condoning cheating. What reeks here is your accusations of cheating without having any understanding of the rules of the game or the league. You don't know if the coach cheated or not. Why don't you research the rules first and make a determination if he cheated, before throwing around wild accusations.

It's parents like you, who cry foul or name call, without any facts, that make after school activities miserable for kids. Your kid had fun and won a championship.

Why would you go looking for trouble where there is none?

Now, if your kid was upset that they lost playing time to ringer or did not get to play, then that is a legitimate beef. But that's not the case.

Chill out. Or pick up a whistle and help the coach train up the boys to get better so that they don't need ringers.

I don't know who else complained. I don't know if the other parents complained or not because I don't know how to bring it up with them. I don't feel comfortable talking about the coach, as I said. I'm not "calling out" anyone.

And I certainly don't know if the parents of the other team complained or are even aware that there were kids on the winning team who were not actually ON the team but who play a level or two above them and were invited by our coach to defeat them. Not sure about that.... Presumably they are unaware.

And I posted because, as I stated, I'm not sure how to handle this with my DS. I do know that I DO NOT want another adult who cheats to win teaching my DS how to behave. That's for sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is not normal to have guest players in 6th grade basketball!

+1. I’ve coach in several leagues, and this would be an issue especially in house. Soccer — lots of shady there, more about coaches’ egos, than players — ditto for many travel teams of any team sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me see if I have this right:
- Your kid won a championship
- Your kid's basketball coach brought in a couple ringers to play on the team
- No one complained, not even the opposing team, the opposing coach, the refs or other parties that have a stake in the outcome of the game and who probably are familiar with the rules
- You, a parent who is not involved, other than maybe showing up to a couple games during the season, doesn't recognize some players and decides the coach is a cheat
- You, a parent who does not know the rules of the sport or you league, want to crucify a coach for what may be completely legal in the rule book
- You, a parent who presumably loves your son, wants to ruin his friendships that he's made on his team by calling out their coach and sullying the championship that they won, without knowing if what the coach did was within the rules.

Let me be clear. I'm not condoning cheating. What reeks here is your accusations of cheating without having any understanding of the rules of the game or the league. You don't know if the coach cheated or not. Why don't you research the rules first and make a determination if he cheated, before throwing around wild accusations.

It's parents like you, who cry foul or name call, without any facts, that make after school activities miserable for kids. Your kid had fun and won a championship.

Why would you go looking for trouble where there is none?

Now, if your kid was upset that they lost playing time to ringer or did not get to play, then that is a legitimate beef. But that's not the case.

Chill out. Or pick up a whistle and help the coach train up the boys to get better so that they don't need ringers.

I don't know who else complained. I don't know if the other parents complained or not because I don't know how to bring it up with them. I don't feel comfortable talking about the coach, as I said. I'm not "calling out" anyone.

And I certainly don't know if the parents of the other team complained or are even aware that there were kids on the winning team who were not actually ON the team but who play a level or two above them and were invited by our coach to defeat them. Not sure about that.... Presumably they are unaware.

And I posted because, as I stated, I'm not sure how to handle this with my DS. I do know that I DO NOT want another adult who cheats to win teaching my DS how to behave. That's for sure.

Different poster, but I'm not clear on why you are so worried about how to handle things with your son. If it were my kid, I'd ask him if he knew who the ringers were and whether the coach had informed him and his teammates they'd be coming. If the answer is no, I'd ask what he thought about the whole thing and let the conversation go from there.

My impression is that you don't have too much experience with sports or being a sports parent? Ringer situations like this can be enormously frustrating, but often much more so for the parents than the kids. If your kid is not upset, then take some time and gather some more facts before you decide what, if anything you want to do. He will not be morally corrupted by remaining on this team for the rest of the season or year.

[Anonymous]

What bball league was it?

[Anonymous]

OP, my kid played basketball from 4th grade through high school, including on some nationally competitive teams.

Guest players get brought in to AAU teams sometimes for tournaments (my kid played in some tournaments that way) -- and for lots of high school age AAU kids, team affiliations are pretty loose. However, for a team that's been playing together in a league all season to bring in new players for playoffs is kinda gross.

[Anonymous]

The actions of the coach are clearly wrong. I don't see why there should even be any debate about it....

OP describes a team that made it to the "playoffs". Assuming that this team participated in some type of "league" to get to the playoffs, there must be an official roster. Those players on that roster should be the ones that are eligible to play for that team...no one else. It is not fair to the current players on the team, who have been practicing/playing games with the team all along....their playing time should not be reduced by a couple of ringers that just happen to show up. What kind of lesson is this coach teaching the kids? That it does not matter that you have been with this team all along? That any player from anywhere can step in ahead of you?

How do we know that these kids that just showed up, meet the proper eligibility requirements (age/grade etc.)? How fair is this to the other teams in the league/playoffs?

I could care less if it is done in other sports, or at other tournaments. It is wrong.

[Anonymous]

2 kids doesn't make an entire team. Calm down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So let me see if I have this right:
- Your kid won a championship
- Your kid's basketball coach brought in a couple ringers to play on the team
- No one complained, not even the opposing team, the opposing coach, the refs or other parties that have a stake in the outcome of the game and who probably are familiar with the rules
- You, a parent who is not involved, other than maybe showing up to a couple games during the season, doesn't recognize some players and decides the coach is a cheat
- You, a parent who does not know the rules of the sport or you league, want to crucify a coach for what may be completely legal in the rule book
- You, a parent who presumably loves your son, wants to ruin his friendships that he's made on his team by calling out their coach and sullying the championship that they won, without knowing if what the coach did was within the rules.

Let me be clear. I'm not condoning cheating. What reeks here is your accusations of cheating without having any understanding of the rules of the game or the league. You don't know if the coach cheated or not. Why don't you research the rules first and make a determination if he cheated, before throwing around wild accusations.

It's parents like you, who cry foul or name call, without any facts, that make after school activities miserable for kids. Your kid had fun and won a championship.

Why would you go looking for trouble where there is none?

Now, if your kid was upset that they lost playing time to ringer or did not get to play, then that is a legitimate beef. But that's not the case.

Chill out. Or pick up a whistle and help the coach train up the boys to get better so that they don't need ringers.

I don't know who else complained. I don't know if the other parents complained or not because I don't know how to bring it up with them. I don't feel comfortable talking about the coach, as I said. I'm not "calling out" anyone.

And I certainly don't know if the parents of the other team complained or are even aware that there were kids on the winning team who were not actually ON the team but who play a level or two above them and were invited by our coach to defeat them. Not sure about that.... Presumably they are unaware.

And I posted because, as I stated, I'm not sure how to handle this with my DS. I do know that I DO NOT want another adult who cheats to win teaching my DS how to behave. That's for sure.

You've gotten some good advice on this thread about how to broach this with your DS.

But I think your true problem is within your own heart and mind, not with your DS. You've judged this coach as someone who cheated, yet you do not know if it is cheating or not. You have no desire to seek the facts of the matter. But yes, I agree with you that to win without exclusively using the regular season players, seems unjust on some level. That said, if the rules allow for guest players, I would explore within your heart and mind, why this matters to you so much. That should be the basis of your conversation with your DS and explain to him your values. It's up to him whether he wants to share that perspective or not. GL OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There aren’t enough specifics here to make a judgment call. It’s common for soccer teams to enter tournaments but add players from off the team, because not everyone from the regular season team can play in the tournament, or there are some good players someone knows who could boost the team’s chances of success in the tournament. There’s nothing unusual about that, and it isn’t wrong unless rules are broken. If other parents looked at you like you have two heads when you used the team’s regular season name, this could be why. They aren’t necessarily playing as that team. Sometimes 2 teams merge and take on a new name for tournaments.

I would downshift considerably before jumping to conclusions about the coach’s behavior.

They looked at me blankly because they didn't even know the name of the team. Only the color. Because their kids was not a member of the team or invested in the team in any way -- had not practiced with them every week, joined in their wins and losses, etc.

Everyone from our team was available, healthy and showed up to play. Are you saying it's still okay to bring in kids who are at a higher skill level than the competition so they can win?

That's news to me. I'm not into sports other than as a parent, so if this is the case, I'm surprised.

I understand your initial reaction, but this can be fairly normal depending on the circumstances. My son plays up a year in his sport, so he guests for the younger team (his actual age level) in the same travel organization if they are short players or if they are playing in a big tournament. Before he started playing travel, he knew the coach through rec and camps and things, and if they were short a player they'd call to ask if he would come play for the day. You can't fault the coach for choosing a good player to sub in. There's a lot of juggling that takes place. Sometimes a player is a "maybe" and they ask an extra so they can be sure to field a team. Cheating is a strong word and I wouldn't go there with your child.

[Anonymous]

I think OP's son did not play or playing time was minimal and she is frustrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think OP's son did not play or playing time was minimal and she is frustrated.

That’s understandable. Screaming online that a coach cheated when he probably didn’t is not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think OP's son did not play or playing time was minimal and she is frustrated.

That’s understandable. Screaming online that a coach cheated when he probably didn’t is not.

Parents are trained to not complain about playing time (which is BS if you are paying) so they look for another angle to complain.