Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I honestly never had a chance to take any fun electives. I took band, but it was the advanced one.

Why didn't you have a chance? Did your parent not let you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For kids who are aiming at top colleges and truly have a shot, they can take their "fun" elective during lunch. Very common at the school were I teach.

If your kid truly does not have a serious shot at these schools, I wouldn't bother.

Our school doesn't allow this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous[b wrote:]I don't think they "punish" kids so much as they reward kids who have demonstrated the ability to handle challenging academics[/b]. Sure, a kid who has fewer academic classes on their schedule MIGHT be able to handle the work, but there is no proof of that so schools would rather go with the kid who has demonstrated the ability rather than speculate about a kid who has not.

Also, for some kids, AP European History IS a "fun" subject. My kid would certainly be more interested in that over band or drama.

If parents are concerned about kids being overloaded, they need to push back on their high schools, school boards, and state departments of education to limit the number of APs kids can take and to mandate a certain number of "soft" electives to graduate. For example, if no one can take more than 4 APs a year, then everyone would be on the same playing field and this would be the "most rigorous" schedule available. As long as this is not the case, the most ambitious and hard working kids are going to max out their schedules. In the meantime, it is up to you as a parent to decide if you want to allow your kid to participate in this arms race.

It's essentially the same thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.

As evidenced by posts above, this is hyperbolic and untrue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?

Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.

Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?

Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.

Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.

At our school band and chorus are taken during school And it really sucks that Home Ec and Shop, the most useful courses a kid can take, are deemed being for the average or poor kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.

Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.

Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.

It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.

haha NO

Please do not listen to this advice.

Everyone needs AP US and European history.

+ 1

Take studio art or music theory during your lunch period. Eat a couple snacks in the hallway before class.

AP Music Theory is a serious class. If you don’t know that, I can’t help. I know my kid took it in a STEM heavy schedule with plenty of ALs and other music interest. When he interviewed at WM, the interviewer walked out and said out of nowhere “I really love seeing a STEM kid taking AP Theory.” Of course music theory and math are very intertwined. If you don’t know what you are talking about, don’t say it. Many of the AP AP practices classes are also very high level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

This. My STEM kid that had the high stars and checked the boxes did the core. Plus AP theory (not an easy AP BTW, even if you have a decent music grounding), 4 years of band. Great results. But, he also marched. Played in an additional EC orchestra. Took private lessons. Played pit orchestra for drama. Etc.

Plus, he was a switcher among wind instruments and wrote about it for many of his supplemental essays. Played his primary instrument in curricular band and took lessons on it. But, also played a second closely related instrument for curricular band when they needed it, because it was a specialized only need one/ only need it sometimes instrument. Marched a different related instrument. And played a fourth in the school’s orchestra “because it’s cool”. He picked them up really quickly and loved the challenge and actually plays a 5th in college. The band director loved it because he could play the specialized instrument they needed once or the one they needed to round out the orchestra. He was jack of all trades. All district, not all state. Now plays in the college non-major orchestra. Fortunately, the school provides instruments for switches, so we are only responsible for the primary one.

I have seen music kids, drama kids, arts, and writing/ journalism kids who following this path and go all in on their do area really well, even if it doesn’t relate to their intended major.. The kid who takes a year of art, a year of culinary management, a year of social justice and a year of tech? Much less so. I love the fine arts path for kids who love fine arts because it is a big pause in their day. Stress relief, more relaxed, different part of the brain and often a cohort of similar kids to themselves . But, this isn’t going to work for a kid who doesn’t love their track, because you are adding a huge outside of class commitment.

BTW— I’m a Huge believer in AP Stats for Math kids, in addition to calc.. It may be an “easier” AP, but it’s Math they need a grounding in. In fact, most humanities kids probably need stats more than Calc. Not sure colleges see it that way, unfortunately. But, inmany fields, it’s important to be able to interpret data. Than— whatever you do with Calc as a politics major.

There is a Freakonomics podcast that totally supports your position on stats. I agree as well. Stats is very important. My DD did not take it in HS (but almost did as an elective). She promised to take it in college.

I agree that every student should have to take statistics. In hindsight, I really wish I had, in either high school or college.

But I also think every student, either in high school or college, should have to take a theatre class. It’s such a different way of thinking, and can prepare a student for any number of things in the “real world,” not least of which are public speaking, thinking quickly on one’s feet, and working in a group on something you have to present (in a much more structured way that usual group projects in core classes).

I sort of agree. I had a middle school debater. They didn’t stick with it in HS. But those two years really made a huge difference. Come up with arguments on both sides of a case, then articulate your rationale and respond to criticism with civility. Really think about what the counterpoint is, and how you respond. Desperately needed in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.

Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.

Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.

It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.

Both of those are serious work-intensive courses that expect high level performance-- not "fun" classes.

This. PP is an idiot who thinks you listen to music or make a pot and get an AP. Ummm. Not even close. You need years of training in art or music to even consider taking this class. I would love to see PP’s kid wander into AP music theory, the “easy elective”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?

Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.

Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?

Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.

Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.

At our school band and chorus are taken during school And it really sucks that Home Ec and Shop, the most useful courses a kid can take, are deemed being for the average or poor kids.

+1. I know people hate it when people pull TJ in. But my kid took Design Tech (mandatory) and prototyping and analog/ digital electronics for Senior Lab. And can now wire circuits (and then some), deal with actual electrical problems in the house, use a band saw, build things, use a laser cutter, do circuit boards and ... wait for it... weld and use a plasma cutter (DH was so jealous of this). Plus a lot of other stuff ai don’t understand, but should. Obviously the classes are teaching bigger concepts. But it’s hands on with the equipment. I LOVE it. I’m sure my kid will use Calculus, but it’s nice that when something short circuits, he has no problem fixing it. And these are 21st century skills it is great to have. Tech Ed is so useful. And because everyone takes Design Tech, no one gets dinked. I wish my base school kid could do it without taking the transcript hit, because these are great skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?

Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.

Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?

Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.

Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.

At our school band and chorus are taken during school And it really sucks that Home Ec and Shop, the most useful courses a kid can take, are deemed being for the average or poor kids.

+1. I know people hate it when people pull TJ in. But my kid took Design Tech (mandatory) and prototyping and analog/ digital electronics for Senior Lab. And can now wire circuits (and then some), deal with actual electrical problems in the house, use a band saw, build things, use a laser cutter, do circuit boards and ... wait for it... weld and use a plasma cutter (DH was so jealous of this). Plus a lot of other stuff ai don’t understand, but should. Obviously the classes are teaching bigger concepts. But it’s hands on with the equipment. I LOVE it. I’m sure my kid will use Calculus, but it’s nice that when something short circuits, he has no problem fixing it. And these are 21st century skills it is great to have. Tech Ed is so useful. And because everyone takes Design Tech, no one gets dinked. I wish my base school kid could do it without taking the transcript hit, because these are great skills.

+1. I wish my kid could do that too.

[Anonymous]

If a school will ding my kid for taking a year of photography..instead of a 10th AP...he will go somewhere else.

[Anonymous]

I took wood shop and print shop/graphic arts in middle school. I loved all the machines in the wood shop and always smile when I see some of them on display at the hardware store.

I imagine that if someone gave 12 year olds access to a woodshop these days, there would be lawsuits aplenty.

[Anonymous]

I think it is a shame that young teens are so career-oriented that they can't explore the Arts or practical/fun skills.

My kid did take Yoga for PE credits once. And I wanted her to take the school's Financial Literacy offering (to learn about credit worthiness, for example, and student loans and buying a car). Unfortunately, she was steered away from it since the counselor thought she was "too smart.." Apparently, they perceive that class as a way for math-challenged kids to meet the graduation requirement.

That is wrong, don't you think? Practical skills come in handy in life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is a shame that young teens are so career-oriented that they can't explore the Arts or practical/fun skills.

My kid did take Yoga for PE credits once. And I wanted her to take the school's Financial Literacy offering (to learn about credit worthiness, for example, and student loans and buying a car). Unfortunately, she was steered away from it since the counselor thought she was "too smart.." Apparently, they perceive that class as a way for math-challenged kids to meet the graduation requirement.

That is wrong, don't you think? Practical skills come in handy in life.

I do. But I am the parent who is baffled why college prep students need BC Calc unless they are applying for math, engineering, physics or the like. But AP stats is considered a mark against you. I guess Calc is rigorous? But I’d prefer rigorous and useful.

[Anonymous]

I am a scientist. My daughter aspires to being a scientist.

I can assure you that she took stats. Again, it is not about what "they" think. It is about what makes sense for your child. I wish more people thought for themselves!!