Do top colleges "punish" kids for taking fun electives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:May I suggest that you find a school that is a good (natural) fit for the child you have. Instead of twisting your kid like a pretzel to fit them into the school you want.

+1,000. I love this!

[Anonymous]

For kids who are aiming at top colleges and truly have a shot, they can take their "fun" elective during lunch. Very common at the school were I teach.

If your kid truly does not have a serious shot at these schools, I wouldn't bother.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.

Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.

Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.

It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.

haha NO

Please do not listen to this advice.

Everyone needs AP US and European history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

This. My STEM kid that had the high stars and checked the boxes did the core. Plus AP theory (not an easy AP BTW, even if you have a decent music grounding), 4 years of band. Great results. But, he also marched. Played in an additional EC orchestra. Took private lessons. Played pit orchestra for drama. Etc.

Plus, he was a switcher among wind instruments and wrote about it for many of his supplemental essays. Played his primary instrument in curricular band and took lessons on it. But, also played a second closely related instrument for curricular band when they needed it, because it was a specialized only need one/ only need it sometimes instrument. Marched a different related instrument. And played a fourth in the school’s orchestra “because it’s cool”. He picked them up really quickly and loved the challenge and actually plays a 5th in college. The band director loved it because he could play the specialized instrument they needed once or the one they needed to round out the orchestra. He was jack of all trades. All district, not all state. Now plays in the college non-major orchestra. Fortunately, the school provides instruments for switches, so we are only responsible for the primary one.

I have seen music kids, drama kids, arts, and writing/ journalism kids who following this path and go all in on their do area really well, even if it doesn’t relate to their intended major.. The kid who takes a year of art, a year of culinary management, a year of social justice and a year of tech? Much less so. I love the fine arts path for kids who love fine arts because it is a big pause in their day. Stress relief, more relaxed, different part of the brain and often a cohort of similar kids to themselves . But, this isn’t going to work for a kid who doesn’t love their track, because you are adding a huge outside of class commitment.

BTW— I’m a Huge believer in AP Stats for Math kids, in addition to calc.. It may be an “easier” AP, but it’s Math they need a grounding in. In fact, most humanities kids probably need stats more than Calc. Not sure colleges see it that way, unfortunately. But, inmany fields, it’s important to be able to interpret data. Than— whatever you do with Calc as a politics major.

+1000 A statistics class really should be mandatory for all high school students and is much more important than calculus for everyone who isn't looking toward majoring in engineering/physics/math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.

Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.

Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.

It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.

haha NO

Please do not listen to this advice.

Everyone needs AP US and European history.

+ 1

Take studio art or music theory during your lunch period. Eat a couple snacks in the hallway before class.

[Anonymous]

I don't think they "punish" kids so much as they reward kids who have demonstrated the ability to handle challenging academics. Sure, a kid who has fewer academic classes on their schedule MIGHT be able to handle the work, but there is no proof of that so schools would rather go with the kid who has demonstrated the ability rather than speculate about a kid who has not.

Also, for some kids, AP European History IS a "fun" subject. My kid would certainly be more interested in that over band or drama.

If parents are concerned about kids being overloaded, they need to push back on their high schools, school boards, and state departments of education to limit the number of APs kids can take and to mandate a certain number of "soft" electives to graduate. For example, if no one can take more than 4 APs a year, then everyone would be on the same playing field and this would be the "most rigorous" schedule available. As long as this is not the case, the most ambitious and hard working kids are going to max out their schedules. In the meantime, it is up to you as a parent to decide if you want to allow your kid to participate in this arms race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

This. My STEM kid that had the high stars and checked the boxes did the core. Plus AP theory (not an easy AP BTW, even if you have a decent music grounding), 4 years of band. Great results. But, he also marched. Played in an additional EC orchestra. Took private lessons. Played pit orchestra for drama. Etc.

Plus, he was a switcher among wind instruments and wrote about it for many of his supplemental essays. Played his primary instrument in curricular band and took lessons on it. But, also played a second closely related instrument for curricular band when they needed it, because it was a specialized only need one/ only need it sometimes instrument. Marched a different related instrument. And played a fourth in the school’s orchestra “because it’s cool”. He picked them up really quickly and loved the challenge and actually plays a 5th in college. The band director loved it because he could play the specialized instrument they needed once or the one they needed to round out the orchestra. He was jack of all trades. All district, not all state. Now plays in the college non-major orchestra. Fortunately, the school provides instruments for switches, so we are only responsible for the primary one.

I have seen music kids, drama kids, arts, and writing/ journalism kids who following this path and go all in on their do area really well, even if it doesn’t relate to their intended major.. The kid who takes a year of art, a year of culinary management, a year of social justice and a year of tech? Much less so. I love the fine arts path for kids who love fine arts because it is a big pause in their day. Stress relief, more relaxed, different part of the brain and often a cohort of similar kids to themselves . But, this isn’t going to work for a kid who doesn’t love their track, because you are adding a huge outside of class commitment.

BTW— I’m a Huge believer in AP Stats for Math kids, in addition to calc.. It may be an “easier” AP, but it’s Math they need a grounding in. In fact, most humanities kids probably need stats more than Calc. Not sure colleges see it that way, unfortunately. But, inmany fields, it’s important to be able to interpret data. Than— whatever you do with Calc as a politics major.

There is a Freakonomics podcast that totally supports your position on stats. I agree as well. Stats is very important. My DD did not take it in HS (but almost did as an elective). She promised to take it in college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

This. My STEM kid that had the high stars and checked the boxes did the core. Plus AP theory (not an easy AP BTW, even if you have a decent music grounding), 4 years of band. Great results. But, he also marched. Played in an additional EC orchestra. Took private lessons. Played pit orchestra for drama. Etc.

Plus, he was a switcher among wind instruments and wrote about it for many of his supplemental essays. Played his primary instrument in curricular band and took lessons on it. But, also played a second closely related instrument for curricular band when they needed it, because it was a specialized only need one/ only need it sometimes instrument. Marched a different related instrument. And played a fourth in the school’s orchestra “because it’s cool”. He picked them up really quickly and loved the challenge and actually plays a 5th in college. The band director loved it because he could play the specialized instrument they needed once or the one they needed to round out the orchestra. He was jack of all trades. All district, not all state. Now plays in the college non-major orchestra. Fortunately, the school provides instruments for switches, so we are only responsible for the primary one.

I have seen music kids, drama kids, arts, and writing/ journalism kids who following this path and go all in on their do area really well, even if it doesn’t relate to their intended major.. The kid who takes a year of art, a year of culinary management, a year of social justice and a year of tech? Much less so. I love the fine arts path for kids who love fine arts because it is a big pause in their day. Stress relief, more relaxed, different part of the brain and often a cohort of similar kids to themselves . But, this isn’t going to work for a kid who doesn’t love their track, because you are adding a huge outside of class commitment.

BTW— I’m a Huge believer in AP Stats for Math kids, in addition to calc.. It may be an “easier” AP, but it’s Math they need a grounding in. In fact, most humanities kids probably need stats more than Calc. Not sure colleges see it that way, unfortunately. But, inmany fields, it’s important to be able to interpret data. Than— whatever you do with Calc as a politics major.

There is a Freakonomics podcast that totally supports your position on stats. I agree as well. Stats is very important. My DD did not take it in HS (but almost did as an elective). She promised to take it in college.

I agree that every student should have to take statistics. In hindsight, I really wish I had, in either high school or college.

But I also think every student, either in high school or college, should have to take a theatre class. It’s such a different way of thinking, and can prepare a student for any number of things in the “real world,” not least of which are public speaking, thinking quickly on one’s feet, and working in a group on something you have to present (in a much more structured way that usual group projects in core classes).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?

Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.

Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?

[Anonymous]

Our school limits APs, but requires 4 years of almost every core course. She has one elective and uses the rest of her elective spots as study halls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

Was it just those two classes, or did he take a "fun" class for all of his electives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Top colleges do not punish kids for taking fun electives.

Once a kid has 5 classes that are the most rigorous their school offers, their electives don't matter.

Now if the student decides they "hate writing" and refuse to take AP Lang and any AP history, then top schools will not be impressed.

It would be fine to skip AP Lang and AP history and make up for it with AP Studio art and AP Music theory.

Both of those are serious work-intensive courses that expect high level performance-- not "fun" classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, my kid had all core APs but took art and shop (which he loved) and was ivy admitted. If it is inline with a passion I think it’s actually a benefit as opposed to the students who jam in every AP class in a GPA race. I think it helped him a lot as a differentiator.

Passions matter, and what makes a kid interesting and memorable matter. What they bring to campus.

Study what you love, in HS and in college.

Was it just those two classes, or did he take a "fun" class for all of his electives?

He only had room for one elective each semester, but it was always either art or shop. Senior year he took AP Comp Sci because they ended our shop program at our HS or he would have taken the last year of that.

The only point I was trying to make is that no, IMHO&E you will not be punished for taking those classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD has 4 years of band. She has progressed to the highest band. She will graduate with 9 AP's: AP World, AP Lang, AP Physics A, APES, CALC AB, CALC BC, AP Gov, AP Music Theory, AP Latin and AP Bio.

She is not being punished for the 4 years of band. That shows commitment to something. But, the B's in Math are going to keep her out of the top colleges. She is ok with that.

How do you know? You said yourself she won't get into top colleges because of her B's. It's pure speculation as to whether she would have gotten into a top college with 9 AP's and no B's.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can an unhooked kid kid still get into a top college if they limit their APs to the core classes (including foreign language)? Do top schools expect to see applicants taking their electives in things like AP Stat, AP European History, etc, or can they actually take fun electives like drama, culinary, music tech?

Why are those things school classes? They seem more like extracurriculars.

Huh? Didn't your HS offer theater, band, chorus, Home Ec, Shop as electives?

Band and chorus are after school or before school activities in some places.

Home ec, shop, etc. are classes that average or poor students take, not serious students.