if you were hungry, would you steal food? what if your kids were hungry?i

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been in hunger and poverty and I would never steal to eat or feed my children. There are so many options to be exhausted before that.

Whoever appeals to stealing has a character failure.

In my copy of the cookbook "Extending the Table" there is a sad story of a woman who was visiting a family living in desperate poverty in Bangladesh. The family had several children, and had so little food that they chose one daughter, a 2 year old, to not feed anymore, allowing her to waste away. That way they made their remaining food go father among the rest of the children.

If that family had stolen food, I would not say that they had a character flaw.

I guess it depends what you mean by "hungry".

Dear person who lived her entire life in a developed country,
The stories we read in the books are not always true. And when they sound absurd and very profound we should believe even less. Authors often use such stories to sell their books.
If you chose to believe please take in consideration the cultural aspect. Where I come from it's very common to start feeding from the eldest child and the youngest will eat only if there's food left often being fed of the meat left in the bones by the older siblings. It's not poverty, it's cultural.And values like honor are also cultural. Some people would prefer to die in hunger over stealing something to feed their children. It's just their culture. Instead of judging them why don't we help them?

Sorry, but you're an idiot. Not having enough food to feed all your children is the very definition of poverty. And if your point is that the older children gorge themselves, and as a result of them taking more than they need there isn't enough food for the younger children, well, I suppose you're right, that could be cultural. And I will go right on judging it - a culture that permits or encourages that kind of behavior doesn't have much to recommend it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've been in hunger and poverty and I would never steal to eat or feed my children. There are so many options to be exhausted before that.

Whoever appeals to stealing has a character failure.

In my copy of the cookbook "Extending the Table" there is a sad story of a woman who was visiting a family living in desperate poverty in Bangladesh. The family had several children, and had so little food that they chose one daughter, a 2 year old, to not feed anymore, allowing her to waste away. That way they made their remaining food go father among the rest of the children.

If that family had stolen food, I would not say that they had a character flaw.

I guess it depends what you mean by "hungry".

Dear person who lived her entire life in a developed country,
The stories we read in the books are not always true. And when they sound absurd and very profound we should believe even less. Authors often use such stories to sell their books.
If you chose to believe please take in consideration the cultural aspect. Where I come from it's very common to start feeding from the eldest child and the youngest will eat only if there's food left often being fed of the meat left in the bones by the older siblings. It's not poverty, it's cultural.And values like honor are also cultural. Some people would prefer to die in hunger over stealing something to feed their children. It's just their culture. Instead of judging them why don't we help them?

Sorry, but you're an idiot. Not having enough food to feed all your children is the very definition of poverty. And if your point is that the older children gorge themselves, and as a result of them taking more than they need there isn't enough food for the younger children, well, I suppose you're right, that could be cultural. And I will go right on judging it - a culture that permits or encourages that kind of behavior doesn't have much to recommend it.

I don't need your pity, thanks, but I do question why do you think I'm an idiot. I didn't chose to be born there nor I agree with several points of my culture. But who am I to say that this is right or wrong? That's the way they have been doing for centuries and calling them idiots won't change a thing. That's why I'm here, doing my part to make it better for the little ones that have no choice.
If more people acted instead of being just sorry we were not here having this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: a culture that permits or encourages that kind of behavior doesn't have much to recommend it.

Agree. I can't believe someone is trying to defend as "cultural" (and therefore unassailable) the practice of breeding children one does not intend to care for. This sort of specious argument is what has given relativism a bad name.

In any case, I smell a troll. No one who knows true poverty can claim honor is more important than survival. I'm guessing that poster's grandmother might have had a few lean months during a civil war once, so she thinks she's an expert on hard times.

Troll, this board is full of experienced humanitarian aid professionals who are well versed in the horrors of poverty and wretched impossible decisions and the commonality that binds us ALL as parents, and we call bullshit.

[Anonymous]

Obviously the poster who doesn't need our pity is defensive about this issue. Maybe we should ignore her.

That story about starving the two year old is horrible. I hope she's right that it is NOT true

As for breeding children you can't take care of.... poor people often don't have access to birth control so unless they can agree to abstain I'm not sure they can help it. One of the things the Bush administration did is reduce our support of family planning efforts in poor countries. I hope those efforts will be renewed now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: a culture that permits or encourages that kind of behavior doesn't have much to recommend it.

Agree. I can't believe someone is trying to defend as "cultural" (and therefore unassailable) the practice of breeding children one does not intend to care for. This sort of specious argument is what has given relativism a bad name.

In any case, I smell a troll. No one who knows true poverty can claim honor is more important than survival. I'm guessing that poster's grandmother might have had a few lean months during a civil war once, so she thinks she's an expert on hard times.

Troll, this board is full of experienced humanitarian aid professionals who are well versed in the horrors of poverty and wretched impossible decisions and the commonality that binds us ALL as parents, and we call bullshit.

I guess you didn't read my last post. I'm not defending this cultural aspect. I left my home country not only for that reason but several others. I don't agree with it and I'm here fighting for it.
Just because you sit behind a desk in your AC filled office reading about poverty and signing documents to send away donations it doesn't mean you know it all either. Your country send us shoes and we have no socks! Your country send us canned food and we have no can openers! We all have a lot to learn about each other. If you were a humanitarian savvy as you claim to be I feel sorry for people who depend on you to have food, shelter or clothing. You have no clue of what you're doing in your job if you think I'm only a troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Obviously the poster who doesn't need our pity is defensive about this issue. Maybe we should ignore her.

That story about starving the two year old is horrible. I hope she's right that it is NOT true

As for breeding children you can't take care of.... poor people often don't have access to birth control so unless they can agree to abstain I'm not sure they can help it. One of the things the Bush administration did is reduce our support of family planning efforts in poor countries. I hope those efforts will be renewed now.

3yos usually think that ignoring something will make it go away.

[Anonymous]

Assuming there were no other options available, I would steal food to survive. I would totally steal food to feed my starving child. I'd kill someone's pet and feed that to my child before I let them die.

Character flaw? Who gives a shit as long as my child does not starve to death. I question the character of a person who would watch their child starve when there were options. I consider stealing an option, even though it should not be the first option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This question obviously has some layers to it.

If I were hungry, on an average Thursday, would I just up and steal food? No. If I were hungry as in malnourished, without sources of food, without any help, all other options exhausted? I'd hold out as long as I could, but then yes, I'd undoubtedly steal food, because my desire to live would be stronger than my desire to stay true to my moral compass. If my children were involved - after trying all legal or legitimate means of obtaining food, I would most certainly steal food for my children. This is not even a question. I would do whatever necessary to keep them safe and alive.

Anyone who says they wouldn't steal food - I think what you're really saying is you've never been desperate enough.

I totally agree with this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question obviously has some layers to it.

If I were hungry, on an average Thursday, would I just up and steal food? No. If I were hungry as in malnourished, without sources of food, without any help, all other options exhausted? I'd hold out as long as I could, but then yes, I'd undoubtedly steal food, because my desire to live would be stronger than my desire to stay true to my moral compass. If my children were involved - after trying all legal or legitimate means of obtaining food, I would most certainly steal food for my children. This is not even a question. I would do whatever necessary to keep them safe and alive.

Anyone who says they wouldn't steal food - I think what you're really saying is you've never been desperate enough.

I totally agree with this.

Anyone who says this doesn't know other cultures enough. Have you heard of Seppuku or the Xingu ritual regarding the birth of multiples. Values and beliefs are not the same all around the world. What makes you think that the way you believe is the right way to have things done?

[Anonymous]

Just because SOME people commit ritual Japanese suicide over issues related to "honor" does not mean that that SAME person wouldn't steal a loaf of bread to feed their starving child.

[Anonymous]

I guess OP gets that "philosophical" discussion she was looking for.

IF we were to boil behavior down to basic goods and basic ills, I'm pretty sure that on an abstract level all cultures would say that it is a basic good to feed everyone. It's when things get tough that principles go by the wayside. Which is why I'm confused about the poster who is insisting that letting children starve is both a cultural and an honorable position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just because SOME people commit ritual Japanese suicide over issues related to "honor" does not mean that that SAME person wouldn't steal a loaf of bread to feed their starving child.

I'm not saying the SAME person would do or not do it. What I'm trying to say is that different cultures face honor and other values differently than Americans. It doesn't make them right or wrong, only DIFFERENT!
Gosh how hard is to understand it?
For some cultures it's really offensive to show the amount of skin we show over here and we also think it's offensive the amount of skin some other women show in other countries. Does it make us right or wrong? NO!
Will we ever get it? I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess OP gets that "philosophical" discussion she was looking for.

IF we were to boil behavior down to basic goods and basic ills, I'm pretty sure that on an abstract level all cultures would say that it is a basic good to feed everyone. It's when things get tough that principles go by the wayside. Which is why I'm confused about the poster who is insisting that letting children starve is both a cultural and an honorable position.

That's where we're tripping. Not all cultures believe that feeding everyone is a basic good.

[Anonymous]

If my child was starving? If his life depended on it? If I exhausted all resources? I will admit it, I would steal food. I wouldn't steal it from another starving child, but if we are talking about a delivery truck goes by and I have a chance to take a loaf of bread. Then yes. I'd take the loaf of bread. Heck, I'd steal it for someone else's starving child. If this makes me a monster in someone's eyes, so be it. I am comfortable with my own value system. I wonder about the values of anyone who would let a child die of starvation and had the opportunity to get food.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If my child was starving? If his life depended on it? If I exhausted all resources? I will admit it, I would steal food. I wouldn't steal it from another starving child, but if we are talking about a delivery truck goes by and I have a chance to take a loaf of bread. Then yes. I'd take the loaf of bread. Heck, I'd steal it for someone else's starving child. If this makes me a monster in someone's eyes, so be it. I am comfortable with my own value system. I wonder about the values of anyone who would let a child die of starvation and had the opportunity to get food.

I don't blame you. Over here we don't mind wearing shoes or clothing made by starving children working 10 hours a day. We don't mind wearing jewelry made from stones collected through someone's blood. Our value system is completely fine!