St Anselm’s Abbey School — an AP mill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not saying that SAAS is not an excellent school nor that it’s students can’t handle the AP load. Yet their average AP coarse load seems to be incredibly high, thus why I am asking this question. Especially in light of the fact that many of the most selective private high schools and universities seem to be moving away from so putting much emphasis on AP courses and credits.

Personally, I want to head that my worries are unfounded, but I also want honest dialog on the topic, regardless of whether you’re a SAAS parent or not. It’s a valid issue that has nothing to do with whether the school itself is great in every other way or not.

Do colleges provide credit for APs still? If so, one theory may be kids trying to save money in college. My son toured the Abbey and we were told that many of the boys were admitted into more highly ranked schools than they were able to attend because money was often an issue so they went where the scholarships were. Maybe boys want to finish college early by taking AP classes, thereby saving money?Just speculation though.

I have to admit, I thought the idea that the boys went to schools with scholarships, rather than amassing debt, was impressive. Also I would be shocked if any kid got less than a stellar education at St. Anselm’s, AP or otherwise.

Rich families don't want to give the impression that their kids are angling for scholarships from low ranked universities and for this reason they discourage their children from taking AP courses. They can afford full pay to the likes of HYP and in turn HYP like them.

[Anonymous]

Rich families don't want to give the impression that their kids are angling for scholarships from low ranked universities and for this reason they discourage their children from taking AP courses. They can afford full pay to the likes of HYP and in turn HYP like them.

There is no advantage for full pay applicants at the elite colleges. HYP have need-blind admissions, do not include loans in aid packages, provide financial aid to a majority of their students, and are usually cheaper to attend than public universities for all but the wealthiest families. At Princeton, every student with family income between $160-180k qualified for financial aid with an average grant of nearly $44k. Fully one-third of students from families with income over $250k qualified for financial aid with an average grant of nearly $23k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Rich families don't want to give the impression that their kids are angling for scholarships from low ranked universities and for this reason they discourage their children from taking AP courses. They can afford full pay to the likes of HYP and in turn HYP like them.

There is no advantage for full pay applicants at the elite colleges. HYP have need-blind admissions, do not include loans in aid packages, provide financial aid to a majority of their students, and are usually cheaper to attend than public universities for all but the wealthiest families. At Princeton, every student with family income between $160-180k qualified for financial aid with an average grant of nearly $44k. Fully one-third of students from families with income over $250k qualified for financial aid with an average grant of nearly $23k.

Nonsense. Full-pay students have the luxury of applying early decision without having to compare aid packages. Early decision applicants are accepted at a significantly higher percentage than regular decision. And elite colleges do not always give aid packages to early decision admits that correspond to the estimated family contribution calculator, so whether or not they have need blind admissions, they don't guarantee to fund you. I have a work colleague whose daughter was admitted to Columbia U. early decision last year but expected $15,000 more from the parents than the online calculator estimated - money that they simply couldn't swing. And I am 100% certain that my own (legacy, URM) DC had an edge up in admission to another Ivy last year because DC could apply binding early decision, satisfy two hook criteria, and didn't cost a penny of financial aid.

[Anonymous]

So you’re saying that colleges are lying or fraudulent about bring need blind?

[Anonymous]

No, I'm saying that the pool of people in the early decision applicant pile is significantly wealthier than the pool in the regular decision pile, and that the admit rate for the former is significantly higher than for the latter. It skews the class wealthier, which allows the school the financial flexibility to be need blind. And it provides a real but hidden advantage to wealthy applicants who can afford not to compare aid packages.

[Anonymous]

See here, for example: https://www.insidehighered.com/views/2017/01/12/discrimination-inherent-early-admissions-programs-essay

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different question: is there something similar to st anselm’s for girls? I think it would be a good fit for my son but I don’t like the idea of sending my boy to a private and sending the girls public.

This questions is asked every few months. The answer is no if you are talking about Catholic schools.

What about non-catholic schools? I’m catholic but don’t really care whether my kids go to a catholic school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I am not saying that SAAS is not an excellent school nor that it’s students can’t handle the AP load. Yet their average AP coarse load seems to be incredibly high, thus why I am asking this question. Especially in light of the fact that many of the most selective private high schools and universities seem to be moving away from so putting much emphasis on AP courses and credits.

Personally, I want to head that my worries are unfounded, but I also want honest dialog on the topic, regardless of whether you’re a SAAS parent or not. It’s a valid issue that has nothing to do with whether the school itself is great in every other way or not.

Do colleges provide credit for APs still? If so, one theory may be kids trying to save money in college. My son toured the Abbey and we were told that many of the boys were admitted into more highly ranked schools than they were able to attend because money was often an issue so they went where the scholarships were. Maybe boys want to finish college early by taking AP classes, thereby saving money?Just speculation though.

I have to admit, I thought the idea that the boys went to schools with scholarships, rather than amassing debt, was impressive. Also I would be shocked if any kid got less than a stellar education at St. Anselm’s, AP or otherwise.

Rich families don't want to give the impression that their kids are angling for scholarships from low ranked universities and for this reason they discourage their children from taking AP courses. They can afford full pay to the likes of HYP and in turn HYP like them.

Yes colleges give some credit for APs. Even Harvard does. Not all schools give them for every course, a high score on the exam is usually needed, and there are limits in some colleges as to what or how many can count toward one’s major. Search particular school policies here https://apstudents.collegeboard.org/getting-credit-placement/search-policies

My kid took quite a few APs. At the LAC he is attending he will have some cushion; if he decides or needs to drop a class...at graduating on time won’t be a problem. Most AP classes have been redesigned and are not the kind of memorization tests we remember. But at the end of the day an aP class is supposed to be an equivalent of a 101 college course, which frankly aren’t that interesting either. You can review the AP course overviews online and decide for yourself. https://aphighered.collegeboard.org/courses-exams

[Anonymous]

"We toured SAAS last year and I had the complete opposite impression - that they were more concerned about offering a rigorous education than in setting kids up for easy admissions to the most selective school.

Regardless, did you feel like the AP emphasis was too much?

You could go through high school and take only 3 APs if you wanted to; there are plenty of non AP choices if you really don't like AP for whatever reason. But if you did, you'd miss out on some amazing teachers and fantastic courses.


I'll take that as a yes."

That was not me responding. On our visit, the kids weren't talking about "AP" anything. They talked about classes and teachers that they enjoyed, and they talked about their day and their activities and other aspects of the school culture. AP just wasn't a focus. Jeez, why the hate? It's a great little school - not a fit for my DS, but we were still impressed.

[Anonymous]

Question (perhaps for OP):

What is a AP mill?
What distinguishes it from a school that merely offers many AP courses?
What is wrong with a heavy AP courseload?

Haven't really heard about this issue before. Always thought AP standards provided some uniformity across schools, in addition to the opportunity for college credit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"We toured SAAS last year and I had the complete opposite impression - that they were more concerned about offering a rigorous education than in setting kids up for easy admissions to the most selective school.

Regardless, did you feel like the AP emphasis was too much?

You could go through high school and take only 3 APs if you wanted to; there are plenty of non AP choices if you really don't like AP for whatever reason. But if you did, you'd miss out on some amazing teachers and fantastic courses.


I'll take that as a yes."

That was not me responding. On our visit, the kids weren't talking about "AP" anything. They talked about classes and teachers that they enjoyed, and they talked about their day and their activities and other aspects of the school culture. AP just wasn't a focus. Jeez, why the hate? It's a great little school - not a fit for my DS, but we were still impressed.

That was me responding, and I can't figure out why PP took it as a yes?!?!? It is a great school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, I'm saying that the pool of people in the early decision applicant pile is significantly wealthier than the pool in the regular decision pile, and that the admit rate for the former is significantly higher than for the latter. It skews the class wealthier, which allows the school the financial flexibility to be need blind. And it provides a real but hidden advantage to wealthy applicants who can afford not to compare aid packages.

You think the reason why admit rates for ED are higher than RD is specifically because of finances?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I'm saying that the pool of people in the early decision applicant pile is significantly wealthier than the pool in the regular decision pile, and that the admit rate for the former is significantly higher than for the latter. It skews the class wealthier, which allows the school the financial flexibility to be need blind. And it provides a real but hidden advantage to wealthy applicants who can afford not to compare aid packages.

You think the reason why admit rates for ED are higher than RD is specifically because of finances?

+1 OP is confusing correlation and causation. Even if it is true that ED applicants skew somewhat wealthier the higher ED admit rate is not related to higher wealth but to other more obvious factors:

1) recruited athletes (nearly 100% admit rate)
2) legacy applicants (better ability to show "fit")
3) Questbridge (100% admit rate)
4) benefits to school of admitting ED because it creates higher yield rate
5) better qualified applicant pool at ED than RD

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, I'm saying that the pool of people in the early decision applicant pile is significantly wealthier than the pool in the regular decision pile, and that the admit rate for the former is significantly higher than for the latter. It skews the class wealthier, which allows the school the financial flexibility to be need blind. And it provides a real but hidden advantage to wealthy applicants who can afford not to compare aid packages.

You think the reason why admit rates for ED are higher than RD is specifically because of finances?

+1 OP is confusing correlation and causation. Even if it is true that ED applicants skew somewhat wealthier the higher ED admit rate is not related to higher wealth but to other more obvious factors:

1) recruited athletes (nearly 100% admit rate)
2) legacy applicants (better ability to show "fit")
3) Questbridge (100% admit rate)
4) benefits to school of admitting ED because it creates higher yield rate
5) better qualified applicant pool at ED than RD

Op here, I didn’t confuse anything. That discussion is not something I brought up, you’re talking about someone else. I asked a very pointed question early on. I didn’t bash the school or discuss any of the other things you’re taking about. So maybe be careful who you accuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Question (perhaps for OP):

What is a AP mill?
What distinguishes it from a school that merely offers many AP courses?
What is wrong with a heavy AP courseload?

Haven't really heard about this issue before. Always thought AP standards provided some uniformity across schools, in addition to the opportunity for college credit.

There are a lot of issues regarding a heavy AP focus and regarding the College Board; that has been discussed on DCUM, in WaPo, and in dozens of publications and forums, plenty of times over the the last couple years. Many people love the AP model while many don’t. As mentioned earlier, some top area private’s are moving away from AP’s. I know they’re still big in the competitive public schools, yet this discussion is not about a public school nor is it an indictment against SAAS. It’s legitimate question that has no ill will behind it.