Hogan(R) wants to expand highways, selling out to for-profit cos. Does he know about induced demand?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but until you can get the three local jurisdictions to create a dedicated funding source for public transit, induced demand for public transit is going to fail.

Well then you can thank Hogan for that from the MD side. It was passed in April 2018, all 3 jurisdictions: https://ggwash.org/view/67167/in-a-historic-victory-maryland-passes-dedicated-funding-for-metro

Hogan also got the Purple Line on track, and it's actively under construction.

So now that Hogan has done more for public transit compared to any recent MD governor, now it's time to focus on roads too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Hogan. Now that he's in his 2nd term, he talks like mini-Trump. The plan will destroy 300 acres of parkland in Montgomery County. The noise that will be heard for many miles won't be pleasant. Talk about devaluing Montgomery County property. He relies on MoCo for the majority of his tax revenue, but he treats his constituents like crap.

Lets be real. Yes, it is unfortunate that parkland and a few homes may need to be used. But there is no other alternative. The idea that public transportation will solve our traffic issues on the Beltway is absurd. Similarly, the idea that an extra lane will dramatically increase the noise is equally absurd, as is devaluing MC property generally. The homes currently next to the Beltway are already "devalued". The homes that would then be next to the Beltway presumably will face a devaluation of some amount. But the idea that there will be a great devaluation across MC is absurd.

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

At worst, there will be 1/3 as many homes taken by eminent domain for this expansion as for the Purple Line. That's worst-case scenario.

The quality of life for hundreds of thousands in MoCo will be improved if they spend less time sitting in traffic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Hogan. Now that he's in his 2nd term, he talks like mini-Trump. The plan will destroy 300 acres of parkland in Montgomery County. The noise that will be heard for many miles won't be pleasant. Talk about devaluing Montgomery County property. He relies on MoCo for the majority of his tax revenue, but he treats his constituents like crap.

Lets be real. Yes, it is unfortunate that parkland and a few homes may need to be used. But there is no other alternative. The idea that public transportation will solve our traffic issues on the Beltway is absurd. Similarly, the idea that an extra lane will dramatically increase the noise is equally absurd, as is devaluing MC property generally. The homes currently next to the Beltway are already "devalued". The homes that would then be next to the Beltway presumably will face a devaluation of some amount. But the idea that there will be a great devaluation across MC is absurd.

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

At worst, there will be 1/3 as many homes taken by eminent domain for this expansion as for the Purple Line. That's worst-case scenario.

The quality of life for hundreds of thousands in MoCo will be improved if they spend less time sitting in traffic.

Provide proper citation please. The Post reported 31 homes taken for PL. 34 to be taken for Beltway widening. What we've learned is that you shouldn't bother to improve your property if you live inside the Beltway MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Hogan. Now that he's in his 2nd term, he talks like mini-Trump. The plan will destroy 300 acres of parkland in Montgomery County. The noise that will be heard for many miles won't be pleasant. Talk about devaluing Montgomery County property. He relies on MoCo for the majority of his tax revenue, but he treats his constituents like crap.

Lets be real. Yes, it is unfortunate that parkland and a few homes may need to be used. But there is no other alternative. The idea that public transportation will solve our traffic issues on the Beltway is absurd. Similarly, the idea that an extra lane will dramatically increase the noise is equally absurd, as is devaluing MC property generally. The homes currently next to the Beltway are already "devalued". The homes that would then be next to the Beltway presumably will face a devaluation of some amount. But the idea that there will be a great devaluation across MC is absurd.

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

At worst, there will be 1/3 as many homes taken by eminent domain for this expansion as for the Purple Line. That's worst-case scenario.

The quality of life for hundreds of thousands in MoCo will be improved if they spend less time sitting in traffic.

Provide proper citation please. The Post reported 31 homes taken for PL. 34 to be taken for Beltway widening. What we've learned is that you shouldn't bother to improve your property if you live inside the Beltway MoCo.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/state-begins-to-buy-homes-businesses-to-build-16-mile-purple-line/2014/04/11/9da44828-bf53-11e3-b574-f8748871856a_story.html?utm_term=.14b3fdc8130e

"The state plans to acquire 608 properties, Madden said. They include several small apartment buildings, the Spring Center strip mall, and a five-story office building in Silver Spring; a large Latino Mega Market grocery store and thrift store in Langley Park; and 25 houses in Riverdale Park."

"Madden said the state’s first offers will go to the owners of 50 houses or apartment units and 60 businesses to allow residents and tenants the most time possible to relocate. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, but until you can get the three local jurisdictions to create a dedicated funding source for public transit, induced demand for public transit is going to fail.

Well then you can thank Hogan for that from the MD side. It was passed in April 2018, all 3 jurisdictions: https://ggwash.org/view/67167/in-a-historic-victory-maryland-passes-dedicated-funding-for-metro

Hogan also got the Purple Line on track, and it's actively under construction.

So now that Hogan has done more for public transit compared to any recent MD governor, now it's time to focus on roads too.

"Hogan got the Purple Line on track" means "Hogan didn't cancel the Purple Line." Which, yay! People thought that he would cancel it, but then he didn't, he just cut a lot of the amenities before allowing the project to proceed.

But there's a lot more to transit than one transit project. And to imply that road projects have been neglected? That's just weird.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

I wonder how many opponents of a widening Beltway supported the Purple Line with great vengeance. TP/SS hypocrites!!



Taking homes for a useful purpose - improved east-west mobility in a dense population corridor - is acceptable. (Obviously if it happens to be *your* home, it's fine to have a different opinion.)

Taking homes for a project that will only benefit people who pay high tolls, just fill up again in a few years, leave Maryland taxpayers on the hook if the operator doesn't make a profit, and contribute to air, water, and climate pollution? NOT acceptable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Hogan. Now that he's in his 2nd term, he talks like mini-Trump. The plan will destroy 300 acres of parkland in Montgomery County. The noise that will be heard for many miles won't be pleasant. Talk about devaluing Montgomery County property. He relies on MoCo for the majority of his tax revenue, but he treats his constituents like crap.

Lets be real. Yes, it is unfortunate that parkland and a few homes may need to be used. But there is no other alternative. The idea that public transportation will solve our traffic issues on the Beltway is absurd. Similarly, the idea that an extra lane will dramatically increase the noise is equally absurd, as is devaluing MC property generally. The homes currently next to the Beltway are already "devalued". The homes that would then be next to the Beltway presumably will face a devaluation of some amount. But the idea that there will be a great devaluation across MC is absurd.

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

At worst, there will be 1/3 as many homes taken by eminent domain for this expansion as for the Purple Line. That's worst-case scenario.

The quality of life for hundreds of thousands in MoCo will be improved if they spend less time sitting in traffic.

Like the last 270 expansion..the traffic will be better for a few years and then it will build again. In a decade only those who can afford the toll will be better off. We will be discussing expansion again.

[Anonymous]

The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

But lots of people could take the metro or carpool but don't bother when we make driving the easiest and cheapest option.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

Correct. The current situation is unsustainable - both for moving people and for the environment. We've tried fixing congestion by building bigger roads, it doesn't work, it's time to try solutions that DO work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

But lots of people could take the metro or carpool but don't bother when we make driving the easiest and cheapest option.

I think you're overestimating the number of people on 270 who could take public transit but don't. Most of us are going from MD to VA and there's no good public transit option for that. I live in the MoCo suburbs and work in the VA suburbs (North Potomac to McLean). It would take me 2 hours solid each way on public transit vs. 35-45 min via car. If there was a viable public transit option I'd take it, but I've heard nothing about creating a rail linkage between MD and VA outside the Beltway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

But lots of people could take the metro or carpool but don't bother when we make driving the easiest and cheapest option.

I think you're overestimating the number of people on 270 who could take public transit but don't. Most of us are going from MD to VA and there's no good public transit option for that. I live in the MoCo suburbs and work in the VA suburbs (North Potomac to McLean). It would take me 2 hours solid each way on public transit vs. 35-45 min via car. If there was a viable public transit option I'd take it, but I've heard nothing about creating a rail linkage between MD and VA outside the Beltway.

Solution: ADD TRANSIT!

For example: https://www.bizjournals.com/washington/news/2019/04/12/a-marc-train-to-hq2-a-vre-train-to-baltimore-this.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

I wonder how many opponents of a widening Beltway supported the Purple Line with great vengeance. TP/SS hypocrites!!

Taking homes for a useful purpose - improved east-west mobility in a dense population corridor - is acceptable. (Obviously if it happens to be *your* home, it's fine to have a different opinion.)

Taking homes for a project that will only benefit people who pay high tolls, just fill up again in a few years, leave Maryland taxpayers on the hook if the operator doesn't make a profit, and contribute to air, water, and climate pollution? NOT acceptable.

You clearly are a TP/SS silly person. I hope the Purple Line turns out to be successful, but I question whether it will ever draw the needed crowds. A widened Beltway benefits all Beltway users, whether or not they use the toll lanes. As for future demand, no one knows, so your predictions are simply that. Issue with public transportation is that the region is too big and complicated. Too many moving parts. Economy too interconnected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I voted for Hogan. Now that he's in his 2nd term, he talks like mini-Trump. The plan will destroy 300 acres of parkland in Montgomery County. The noise that will be heard for many miles won't be pleasant. Talk about devaluing Montgomery County property. He relies on MoCo for the majority of his tax revenue, but he treats his constituents like crap.

Lets be real. Yes, it is unfortunate that parkland and a few homes may need to be used. But there is no other alternative. The idea that public transportation will solve our traffic issues on the Beltway is absurd. Similarly, the idea that an extra lane will dramatically increase the noise is equally absurd, as is devaluing MC property generally. The homes currently next to the Beltway are already "devalued". The homes that would then be next to the Beltway presumably will face a devaluation of some amount. But the idea that there will be a great devaluation across MC is absurd.

"A few homes". Let's be real. Destroying 300 acres of parkland sucks. Destroying the quality of life for thousands in Montgomery County sucks. Hogan's condescending attitude toward anybody in the way of his $11 billion gift to developer friends sucks. Sure, your Potomac property won't be devalued. Good for you.

At worst, there will be 1/3 as many homes taken by eminent domain for this expansion as for the Purple Line. That's worst-case scenario.

The quality of life for hundreds of thousands in MoCo will be improved if they spend less time sitting in traffic.

Like the last 270 expansion..the traffic will be better for a few years and then it will build again. In a decade only those who can afford the toll will be better off. We will be discussing expansion again.

ICC (toll) opened 9 years ago. Not congested
495 Express (toll) Lanes opened 8 years ago. Not congested.

Sure, these may be congested in 30 years, but so will every other road and also public transit as well. Let's expand both. The population in this are, and the US in general, continues to grow. More people and goods need to get around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The current situation is unsustainable and not everyone can or wants to live on top of the metro. Our road infrastructure in this area is dreadful and something has to be done. I applaud Hogan for looking at a solution.

But lots of people could take the metro or carpool but don't bother when we make driving the easiest and cheapest option.

I think you're overestimating the number of people on 270 who could take public transit but don't. Most of us are going from MD to VA and there's no good public transit option for that. I live in the MoCo suburbs and work in the VA suburbs (North Potomac to McLean). It would take me 2 hours solid each way on public transit vs. 35-45 min via car. If there was a viable public transit option I'd take it, but I've heard nothing about creating a rail linkage between MD and VA outside the Beltway.

It would be the second Beltway crossing. They can (and should) run rail along it as well. It would go from Shady Grove red line station (which is near 370 -- part of the outer beltway) to the Silver Line near Ashburn (VA-28 is the other part of the outer beltway). It's about 11 miles to connect the outer beltway portions, but MoCo politicians and public transit people are all against it.