Uchicago - how crushing is the quarter system?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, sometimes the key to “handling it” is *not* to be an awesome student. Whether you want your kid (or whether your kid wants) to be in a setting where triage is always the order of the day is a real question. As a prof, a parent, and a former awesome student, I’m not a fan of educational environments like this. YMMV, but that variation is not a function of ability or confidence. It’s about how you view education (and maybe life more generally).

Typical professor. Trying to sound educated and comes off like a hot mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you don't think you can handle it, then you aren't the student you think you are.

I was PBK @ Harvard and am pretty sure, watching my DC currently at UChicago, that I would have found the quarter system crushing. Probably still would have gotten excellent grades, but the system would have sucked a lot of the joy out of learning. I like to explore, read everything that’s assigned (as well as stuff that isn’t), and then have time to synthesize and reflect.

Because Harvard has the easiest curved grading system. U Chicago actually holds kids accountable for their grades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, sometimes the key to “handling it” is *not* to be an awesome student. Whether you want your kid (or whether your kid wants) to be in a setting where triage is always the order of the day is a real question. As a prof, a parent, and a former awesome student, I’m not a fan of educational environments like this. YMMV, but that variation is not a function of ability or confidence. It’s about how you view education (and maybe life more generally).

Typical professor. Trying to sound educated and comes off like a hot mess.

So we’ve now established that you are anti-intellectual. Which speaks to my larger point about people having different views about education. If you see college essentially as a sorting/ranking/credentialing process that teaches time management skills and how to perform well under extreme pressure, then the quarter system might be especially attractive to you. For people who see university as a chance to think deeply and in a sustained way about things that interest them, without a lot of distraction, then the quarter system (especially with substantial core requirements) may be particularly unattractive. Smart, ambitious people who love a challenge fall into both categories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To give you an idea of how much downtime there is if a kid takes 3 classes per quarter - my DC is also an athlete w 4-5 hours of practice a day plus also a research assistant and a TA and part of a social club. To do all this, you need discipline in time management.

That's true but a kid doesn't have to do athletics or sign up for multiple activities. If all you did was three classes plus may be one EC, there's plenty of non class time to focus on papers and studying. My point is that to a large degree the schedule pressure can be self-driven. Unless you are on work-study.

Don’t you generally need 4 courses about half the time (and 3 the other half) to accumulate enough credits to graduate in 4 years?

Also, workload may be a function of number/selection of courses (with the latter not always in the student’s control, both because lots of (STEM?/core) courses are sequences and because undergrads do get shut out of top choice classes), but pace is a function of the length of the term.

DC is a STEM double major and hasn't had an issue with course shut out as an undergraduate. I do have the impression that sometimes he's gone to a professor to be enrolled but so far it's worked out. Overall I get the impression that the faculty goes out of their way to be supportive. However, I don't believe they pamper and that is an important distinction. Numerically, I'm sure there are quarters where 4 classes are needed but honestly there are courses at every university that aren't a lot of work. I'm not involved enought to know the # courses but if he can graduate in 3 years, it can't be all that bad. His friends are having the same experience. This is the age that they should go forth with their educations with no fear. Is it a school for everyone? Of course not. No school is. I will say that the work can be hard but the peer group is supportive and friendly. It's not a cut throat environment. A good place for kids who want a hard academic workout whatever that means on their terms.

My DC is also a STEM major and has had to wait a year for a course in the major and has also routinely not gotten specific ARTs core offerings when desired. My broader point, though, is sequences, prerequisites, and caps on course size (as well as scheduling conflicts generally) mean that it’s a myth that in the quarters when you must take 4 courses you can always put together a collection of 4 easy courses. Judging from what you’ve said, I believe your kid was admitted the same year as my kid. Rules about AP credits have changed since then and an additional on campus credit minimum has been established. (My DC, too, could graduate in three years — I suspect the University is trying to make that harder since it’s a money-losing proposition for them in most cases).

Agree that the faculty are generally very supportive (a number have been amazingly so). And undergrads are supportive of each other. But that not infrequently means a bunch of stressed/depressed kids huddling together for warmth. And/or the least stressed kid feeling compelled to help others worse off vs focus on their own work. How/whether/to what extent these issues will affect any particular kid going to UChicago varies, of course, but they are real issues (and not a function of drive or academic ability or fear) and should be taken into account.

There’s no credit given for AP’s @ Chicago & no outside credit is accepted. Is that what you meant?

I'm not sure this is correct. From U of Chicago's website. http://collegecatalog.uchicago.edu/thecollege/examinationcreditandtransfercredit/

Advanced Placement Credit
Students who request college credit or fulfillment of College requirements for Advanced Placement (AP) examinations taken in high school (i.e., before a student matriculates in the College) are asked to submit an official report of their scores on the AP tests given by the College Entrance Examination Board. The decision to grant credit is reported at the end of the first year in residence and units of credit awarded appear on the student’s official academic record.

While AP scores alone are sometimes used to establish placement or to confer credit, satisfactory performance on the College’s own placement tests may supplement AP scores and lead to additional credit.

The following chart shows how AP credit is automatically awarded. For further information on how credit may be used toward individual degree programs, a student should consult his or her College adviser. For more information on how AP credit may be used to meet major requirements, refer to the major requirements listed under “Programs of Study” in this catalog.

NOTE: For students matriculating in Autumn 2017 or later, at least 3800 units of credit must be earned by course enrollment, i.e., not credit by examination. For students matriculating in Autumn 2018 or later, only scores of 5 on approved tests will confer language competency.

Students who matriculated prior to 2017 should refer to the Advanced Placement credit table in the catalog of their year of matriculation for earlier guidelines regarding AP credit. Archived catalogs can be found here.

Art History 5 100 units general elective credit
Biology 4 100 units general education (BIOS 10130)
Biology 5 100 units general education (BIOS 10130)+
Calculus AB 5 MATH 15100 placement
Calculus BC 4 MATH 15200 placement
Calculus BC 5 MATH 15200 placement †
Chemistry 5 CHEM 11100*
Economics: Micro AND Macro 5 100 units general elective credit
English Language and Composition 5 100 units general elective credit
English Literature and Composition 5 100 units general elective credit
Government and Politics: Comparative AND U.S. 5 100 units general elective credit
History: European 5 100 units general elective credit
History: U.S. 5 100 units general elective credit
History: World 5 100 units general elective credit
Music Theory 5 100 units general elective credit
Physics C: Mechanics AND E&M 5 PHYS 12100-12200 ‡
Physics C: Mechanics only 5 PHYS 12100 ‡
Physics C: E&M only 5 PHYS 12200 ‡
Statistics 5 STAT 22000++
Studio Art (2-D Design, 3-D Design, or Drawing) 5 100 units general elective credit
Chinese Language and Culture; French Language and Culture; German Language and Culture; Italian Language and Culture; Japanese Language and Culture; Latin (Literature or Vergil); Spanish Language and Culture; Spanish Literature and Culture 5 Satisfies the Language Competency Requirement

[Anonymous]

I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

[Anonymous]

My daughter goes to Dartmouth. Also a quarter system. It’s just weird for summer activies like interning. Also spring break is later I think, generally around high school break.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, sometimes the key to “handling it” is *not* to be an awesome student. Whether you want your kid (or whether your kid wants) to be in a setting where triage is always the order of the day is a real question. As a prof, a parent, and a former awesome student, I’m not a fan of educational environments like this. YMMV, but that variation is not a function of ability or confidence. It’s about how you view education (and maybe life more generally).

Typical professor. Trying to sound educated and comes off like a hot mess.

Probably not even a prof. More likely UChicago’s admissions team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

I was all worried about that too but three summers have shown it just hasn't been an issue. Chances are the first two summers will be local to the University and all the employers are in sync. The third summer, DC worked out something with his professors. He didnt seem stressed about it at all. Employers also know these are kids who don't have control over college schedules. May be his experience has been unusual but I wouldn't think that would be the case. All the fellow interns each year all seem to have to address schedule issues too and they were in semester programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

I was all worried about that too but three summers have shown it just hasn't been an issue. Chances are the first two summers will be local to the University and all the employers are in sync. The third summer, DC worked out something with his professors. He didnt seem stressed about it at all. Employers also know these are kids who don't have control over college schedules. May be his experience has been unusual but I wouldn't think that would be the case. All the fellow interns each year all seem to have to address schedule issues too and they were in semester programs.

UChicago has lots of intramural opportunities and local/corporate relationships, but if you move outside that zone, in some fields/for some programs, it can be an issue. Doesn’t seem to be an issue for CS, but sometimes is for govt sponsored programs in other STEM fields.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

My kid is an engineering major at a semester school and pretty stressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Actually, sometimes the key to “handling it” is *not* to be an awesome student. Whether you want your kid (or whether your kid wants) to be in a setting where triage is always the order of the day is a real question. As a prof, a parent, and a former awesome student, I’m not a fan of educational environments like this. YMMV, but that variation is not a function of ability or confidence. It’s about how you view education (and maybe life more generally).

Typical professor. Trying to sound educated and comes off like a hot mess.

So we’ve now established that you are anti-intellectual. Which speaks to my larger point about people having different views about education. If you see college essentially as a sorting/ranking/credentialing process that teaches time management skills and how to perform well under extreme pressure, then the quarter system might be especially attractive to you. For people who see university as a chance to think deeply and in a sustained way about things that interest them, without a lot of distraction, then the quarter system (especially with substantial core requirements) may be particularly unattractive. Smart, ambitious people who love a challenge fall into both categories.

Your grammar and sentence structure are terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To give you an idea of how much downtime there is if a kid takes 3 classes per quarter - my DC is also an athlete w 4-5 hours of practice a day plus also a research assistant and a TA and part of a social club. To do all this, you need discipline in time management.

That's true but a kid doesn't have to do athletics or sign up for multiple activities. If all you did was three classes plus may be one EC, there's plenty of non class time to focus on papers and studying. My point is that to a large degree the schedule pressure can be self-driven. Unless you are on work-study.

Don’t you generally need 4 courses about half the time (and 3 the other half) to accumulate enough credits to graduate in 4 years?

Also, workload may be a function of number/selection of courses (with the latter not always in the student’s control, both because lots of (STEM?/core) courses are sequences and because undergrads do get shut out of top choice classes), but pace is a function of the length of the term.

DC is a STEM double major and hasn't had an issue with course shut out as an undergraduate. I do have the impression that sometimes he's gone to a professor to be enrolled but so far it's worked out. Overall I get the impression that the faculty goes out of their way to be supportive. However, I don't believe they pamper and that is an important distinction. Numerically, I'm sure there are quarters where 4 classes are needed but honestly there are courses at every university that aren't a lot of work. I'm not involved enought to know the # courses but if he can graduate in 3 years, it can't be all that bad. His friends are having the same experience. This is the age that they should go forth with their educations with no fear. Is it a school for everyone? Of course not. No school is. I will say that the work can be hard but the peer group is supportive and friendly. It's not a cut throat environment. A good place for kids who want a hard academic workout whatever that means on their terms.

My DC is also a STEM major and has had to wait a year for a course in the major and has also routinely not gotten specific ARTs core offerings when desired. My broader point, though, is sequences, prerequisites, and caps on course size (as well as scheduling conflicts generally) mean that it’s a myth that in the quarters when you must take 4 courses you can always put together a collection of 4 easy courses. Judging from what you’ve said, I believe your kid was admitted the same year as my kid. Rules about AP credits have changed since then and an additional on campus credit minimum has been established. (My DC, too, could graduate in three years — I suspect the University is trying to make that harder since it’s a money-losing proposition for them in most cases).

Agree that the faculty are generally very supportive (a number have been amazingly so). And undergrads are supportive of each other. But that not infrequently means a bunch of stressed/depressed kids huddling together for warmth. And/or the least stressed kid feeling compelled to help others worse off vs focus on their own work. How/whether/to what extent these issues will affect any particular kid going to UChicago varies, of course, but they are real issues (and not a function of drive or academic ability or fear) and should be taken into account.

It does depend on the kid. Mine likes to dive deep into fewer courses at a time so the quarter system suits him. And admittedly he manages workload and navigates processes such as registration like a champ. His high school taught him that. I didn't say that UChicago's system works for everyone. Even for him, there were times I was pretty worried about the load. But to offset that is how happy he is with all the choices he's been able to pursue. I have no idea why he has always gotten his courses. He does have a lot of older friends that I believe might have helped him identify the prerequisites path early on. He is also open to different CORE courses so it's easier for him to put the pieces together. That's possibly the only advice he's taken from me. It turned out in our case that all the worrying I did over the pace of the quarter system was for nothing. And if it had not been right, I always told him he could transfer. BTW - I do not keep up with curriculum changes but my DC had very few AP courses. His school just wasn't into that. I do vaguely recall that the University placement exams had course waivers he actually didn't plan to use but yielded to the advisors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

There are schools in semester systems that don’t get done until end of May. UMCP being one of them. May 17th is their final day.

Here is WPI calendar. They get done end of April or first few days of May depending on year.
https://www.wpi.edu/sites/default/files/docs/Admissions-Aid/Admissions/UG_18-19-26888098ca8740d8836f28e174b7b268.pdf

Quarter system has nothing to do with start/end dates. I don’t think U Chicago has a good calendar at all, but other Q colleges do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

My kid is an engineering major at a semester school and pretty stressed.

Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have one child in the quarter system, it seems to be nonstop stress. Wish I could have persuaded DC to go to a semester school. And good luck finding an internship that will wait for your DC to arrive in June

There are schools in semester systems that don’t get done until end of May. UMCP being one of them. May 17th is their final day.

Here is WPI calendar. They get done end of April or first few days of May depending on year.
https://www.wpi.edu/sites/default/files/docs/Admissions-Aid/Admissions/UG_18-19-26888098ca8740d8836f28e174b7b268.pdf

Quarter system has nothing to do with start/end dates. I don’t think U Chicago has a good calendar at all, but other Q colleges do.

Umm..yes...literally entire month before UChicago?