Banneker v. Wilson

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

huh? the bolded are extremely well known characteristics of UMC white parents in DC. You see it here on DCUM all the time -- "my white kid can go to any school and will be fine." and in some respects, that is a correct assessment of white privilege, and can have a positive effect because it makes parents less nervous about integrating schools. and yeah, we are helicoptery and expect school administration to "listen to our concerns."

Huh?? First, there is contradiction between the explanations you give. Second, those aren't "extremely well-known characteristics," they're unfounded stereotypes. Congratulations for endorsing and internalizing them.

oh ya right, the disproportionately small % of white kids at Banneker has nothing to do with race or white privilege. OK, you got me. It's just an inherently non-white school. Thanks for explaining that so well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

huh? the bolded are extremely well known characteristics of UMC white parents in DC. You see it here on DCUM all the time -- "my white kid can go to any school and will be fine." and in some respects, that is a correct assessment of white privilege, and can have a positive effect because it makes parents less nervous about integrating schools. and yeah, we are helicoptery and expect school administration to "listen to our concerns."

Huh?? First, there is contradiction between the explanations you give. Second, those aren't "extremely well-known characteristics," they're unfounded stereotypes. Congratulations for endorsing and internalizing them.

Here -do some reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/gentrification-schools/408568/

https://www.blackenterprise.com/gentrified-neighborhoods-segregated-schools/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it absolutely has to do with racism. People think black and Hispanic kids just aren’t as gifted as white kids. There is always suspicion if a school has high minority attendance that those kids will somehow hold the brilliant white children back. This is pervasive among white parents in NWDC. I have mentioned my dc is going to apply to Banneker and I have had folks tell me that it is an inferior school. Honestly, I have dropped many friends over this. There are some really toxic aspects to folks in NWDC. My dc is in 6th grade and is planning on applying to Banneker.

This may be the case for some, but I also think that if de facto it is an "HBHS" then that will affect white enrollment, just as it might at Howard. Maybe having more white kids attend isn't even desirable, if it serves its niche well? If it is desirable it should be part of the administration's goals and discussed in the community.

What do you mean part of the administration’s goals?

DP. I think it means that Banneker has historically been geared toward kids who are first-generation college applicants, the majority of whom are AA, and would want the support that an HBCU provides. They are also probably wired toward schools that offer a substantial amount of aid for URM. That has become a strength but probably at the cost of trying to aim for a broader target of students. Mind you, people don't seem to care that SWW aims for Ivies, SLACs, and competitive public universities primarily.

PP: yes this is more or less what I meant; that the school's own admin would need to target a broader swath of students. I don't think it's useful to just veer into blunt racism arguments without looking at how this school might be trying to meet needs of a particular niche which may not be as much of interest to white families. And that may be fine by the admin and even desirable. ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

I have a child who is an extreme minority. It’s been overwhelmingly positive. I’m not sure why folks worry about it. I think they worry about their child being beaten up or held back, which in our experience has been the furthest from the truth. (FWIW, kid is in 5th grade)

Yep. Being unsure of how your kid will do as an extreme minority or nervous about the new situation is totally normal. But to say "Banneker is per se impossible for my child because it's only 1% white" is ... racist.

I would argue that being nervous about your child being in a new school is normal. If you are nervous about your kid being the only white kid, I think you need to really think about what your stereotypes are. Do you think minority kids are more violent and mean, more prone to bullying and behavioral problems? There are many unfounded assumptions in being nervous about your kid being an only. Folks need to examine that worry more closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

huh? the bolded are extremely well known characteristics of UMC white parents in DC. You see it here on DCUM all the time -- "my white kid can go to any school and will be fine." and in some respects, that is a correct assessment of white privilege, and can have a positive effect because it makes parents less nervous about integrating schools. and yeah, we are helicoptery and expect school administration to "listen to our concerns."

Huh?? First, there is contradiction between the explanations you give. Second, those aren't "extremely well-known characteristics," they're unfounded stereotypes. Congratulations for endorsing and internalizing them.

Here -do some reading:

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/10/gentrification-schools/408568/

https://www.blackenterprise.com/gentrified-neighborhoods-segregated-schools/

Thanks. I'm pretty sure I come across and read that Atlantic article once a year. Did you read the Black Enterprise article yourself, though?

The Hechinger Report has written before about gentrifying neighborhoods and non-gentrifying schools. But it’s not a new phenomenon, nor a racial one. When my husband and I returned to Brooklyn after living in the suburbs, we opted not to send our kids to the local public schools—I homeschooled them instead.

I know plenty of black families in my neighborhood who sent their kids to schools outside their district, to elite private schools, Catholic schools, or even to schools as far away as New Jersey or Riverdale, New York—all to ensure the best education they could for their children.

I'm not sure what you think it supports within this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the Kipp model is 100% unappealing for my family. Not a racial dis, but rather the teaching style and model is not in sync with the approach we'd like for DC to be educated in.

Personally, I was the white minority in both middle and high school, and my parents pushed for me and my sister to attend because of the quality of academics. I plan on doing the same for my DC- and hope that we find that in a few years. (For now, aspiring to attend SWW based on what we know of the school.)

What does KIPP have to do with this conversation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens when it moves, gets new facilities etc. I wonder if that will attract a whiter crowd.

It will, but it won't really happen IMO until getting into Walls becomes almost impossible due to competition.

More white students are, however, attending Ellington post-renovation.

More white students are attending DCPS/PCS in general and staying through high school, so you should expect to see numbers increasing in high schools too. Even Wilson has more white kids than ever before, though still underrepresented compared to the DC population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the Kipp model is 100% unappealing for my family. Not a racial dis, but rather the teaching style and model is not in sync with the approach we'd like for DC to be educated in.

Personally, I was the white minority in both middle and high school, and my parents pushed for me and my sister to attend because of the quality of academics. I plan on doing the same for my DC- and hope that we find that in a few years. (For now, aspiring to attend SWW based on what we know of the school.)

What does KIPP have to do with this conversation?

TGhe PP who first brought Kipp up was suggesting that Banneker makes its high-schoolers work harder than Wilson does in the same way that Kipp makes its 4 year olds work harder than other DC preschools, and that white parents don't think their kids need to work that hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the Kipp model is 100% unappealing for my family. Not a racial dis, but rather the teaching style and model is not in sync with the approach we'd like for DC to be educated in.

Personally, I was the white minority in both middle and high school, and my parents pushed for me and my sister to attend because of the quality of academics. I plan on doing the same for my DC- and hope that we find that in a few years. (For now, aspiring to attend SWW based on what we know of the school.)

What does KIPP have to do with this conversation?

TGhe PP who first brought Kipp up was suggesting that Banneker makes its high-schoolers work harder than Wilson does in the same way that Kipp makes its 4 year olds work harder than other DC preschools, and that white parents don't think their kids need to work that hard.

Oh this is the preschool parent who loves to chime in on their opinion of high schools even though their child is 10+ years away from attending HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW, the Kipp model is 100% unappealing for my family. Not a racial dis, but rather the teaching style and model is not in sync with the approach we'd like for DC to be educated in.

Personally, I was the white minority in both middle and high school, and my parents pushed for me and my sister to attend because of the quality of academics. I plan on doing the same for my DC- and hope that we find that in a few years. (For now, aspiring to attend SWW based on what we know of the school.)

What does KIPP have to do with this conversation?

TGhe PP who first brought Kipp up was suggesting that Banneker makes its high-schoolers work harder than Wilson does in the same way that Kipp makes its 4 year olds work harder than other DC preschools, and that white parents don't think their kids need to work that hard.

Oh this is the preschool parent who loves to chime in on their opinion of high schools even though their child is 10+ years away from attending HS.

Or the person who thinks anyone who doesn’t like KIPP must be a racist? What about AA parents who don’t like it?

[Anonymous]

We are talking about 14 year olds making decisions, as they are part of any process of school choice, they have to sit for the tests and interviews and they have to go to the school every day. Yes, the level of the workload matters, yes, the commute matters.

It is one thing pushing your child to go to a challenging academic school when the by right options are not good. When Wilson is the default, kids feel less pressure to step up and take on more.

I know very few kids from Deal applying to Banneker, I know a good number that applied to both or one of Ellington and Walls, including my own. I would completely have supported Banneker if my DC wanted to attend. Race was not part of the equation at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

huh? the bolded are extremely well known characteristics of UMC white parents in DC. You see it here on DCUM all the time -- "my white kid can go to any school and will be fine." and in some respects, that is a correct assessment of white privilege, and can have a positive effect because it makes parents less nervous about integrating schools. and yeah, we are helicoptery and expect school administration to "listen to our concerns."

Huh?? First, there is contradiction between the explanations you give. Second, those aren't "extremely well-known characteristics," they're unfounded stereotypes. Congratulations for endorsing and internalizing them.

oh ya right, the disproportionately small % of white kids at Banneker has nothing to do with race or white privilege. OK, you got me. It's just an inherently non-white school. Thanks for explaining that so well.

My white kid applied to Banneker maybe 10 years ago. I was extremely impressed with the school and would have been happy for her to go there but she preferred Ellington by a mile. And she didn't get into Banneker anyway - nothing like going into the interview and saying you can't handle a lot of academic pressure. Which is why it wasn't the right school for her and they rightly did not offer her a seat.

But enough about that. What I found troubling was that white parents didn't even consider Banneker. Maybe it won't suit your kid after all but I don't get why it isn't on their radar. Apply to the best schools and then decide which one to attend. Don't reject Banneker before you've even seen it. Very troubling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When I first moved to DC a couple of years ago, I was told that SWW and Banneker are the top DCPS high schools and that I should try to get my children into one of those schools when the time came. I assumed they had similar demographics. Last year, I found out that it was not so. Banneker, which is obviously an excellent school judging from the scores, is 99% minority. I am black, so that doesn't change anything for me. I am wondering if white students would rather not go to a majority black/latino high school? For what it's worth, the white students are a minority at Wilson too. To PP, the sizes of the schools differ greatly, Wilson's facilities are newer (but there are some changes down the pike for Banneker's facilities as well), I believe the admission process is also different. A family friend's son attends and he says that it's extremely challenging and there's a lot of homework, but he believes he is receiving a stellar education.

There's been a lot of discussion about this over the years on DCUM, and I think that the lack of white kids at Banneker is due to a couple of factors. This includes racism, in the form of whites being intimidated to be an extreme minority. But a little more complexly, I think it also involves a degree of white privilege, with white parents actually not thinking their kids "need" to do the really hard work at Banneker, because they'll be "just fine" at Wilson. Seen from a different angle, white parents in DC have different paths to push their kids forward, without having to do the awkward work of integration and a punishing amount of homework. Basically very similar to the reasons they turn their noses up at KIPP. Lastly, I do think Banneker is basically and HBCU high school, and my guess is the school culture there just doesn't go out of its way to try to accommodate the worries of white families. I don't get the sense it's an open door there laying down the red carpet for the exaggerated amount of hand-holding white families might demand. (Which, I don't really have an issue with myself.)

^^ apologies for the word salad. the internet has destroyed my prose.

I understand that the bolded statements, which can only be harsh caricatures of your worst projections on white parents' thoughts (they're not the result of a survey), are seen as progressive pragmatic woke awareness and activism. This horrifies me. I used to identify with that, progressive, pragmatic, aware and a wannabe activist, before the word woke existed. Now I'm just disgusted by posts like this.

Not wanting to be the extreme minority isn't racism.

I have a child who is an extreme minority. It’s been overwhelmingly positive. I’m not sure why folks worry about it. I think they worry about their child being beaten up or held back, which in our experience has been the furthest from the truth. (FWIW, kid is in 5th grade)

Yep. Being unsure of how your kid will do as an extreme minority or nervous about the new situation is totally normal. But to say "Banneker is per se impossible for my child because it's only 1% white" is ... racist.

I would argue that being nervous about your child being in a new school is normal. If you are nervous about your kid being the only white kid, I think you need to really think about what your stereotypes are. Do you think minority kids are more violent and mean, more prone to bullying and behavioral problems? There are many unfounded assumptions in being nervous about your kid being an only. Folks need to examine that worry more closely.

And especially at Banneker. Those kids are too busy studying!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In STEM, Banneker offers AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Environmental Science and AP Stat. Their IB program only offers Biology at Higher Level and math studies at Standard Level. Math studies; is the lowest level of IB math offered, and it is geared toward kids who won't major in STEM in college. It is lower level math than AP Calc AB.

Wilson offers AP Bio, AP Chem, AP Physics (both parts), AP Calc AB and BC, AP Comp Sci, AP Environmental Science, and AP Stat. I think my STEM kid will be more at home at Wilson.

My nephew’s AP Chem at Wilson class had 48 students in it.

So did my multivariate calculus class at an Ivy League School. I was able to learn the material, though, because the class was offered and well taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It will be interesting to see what happens when it moves, gets new facilities etc. I wonder if that will attract a whiter crowd.

It will, but it won't really happen IMO until getting into Walls becomes almost impossible due to competition.

More white students are, however, attending Ellington post-renovation.

More white students are attending DCPS/PCS in general and staying through high school, so you should expect to see numbers increasing in high schools too. Even Wilson has more white kids than ever before, though still underrepresented compared to the DC population.

Comparing to the city's overall population is meaningless.

The only appropriate baseline is to compare a school's population to the total public school population, which is:

10% white
19% Latino
67% Black
2% Asian
2% 2 or more races

Source: https://dcschoolreportcard.org/state/99999-0000