Start language in 6th grade or 7th?

[Anonymous]

My son is at NBMS but does his language outside of school, so I cannot recommend or warn you off any particular teacher. Having said that, it seems to me that you should plan for your child to go all the way up to the AP class in that language, to really make a positive impact for college applications. So figure out which APs are given at Walter Johnson and count down 5 years (if taking an entire course in one year, not just A or B)

Another thing about electives at NBMS. Some elective teachers are no good at all - one told the students at the beginning of the year they would all get As in her class, and surprise! They all got Bs. Why would she say something like that? Another one was teaching some sort of comp sci intro, and my husband the NIH bio-informatician noticed a whole lot of incorrect definitions in her handouts the students were supposed to memorize for her test. Anyway. The chorus teacher is wonderful and engaging, so I recommend that whole-heartedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that there is no concern with languages through Level 3, but that as you continue there are huge jumps as you get up toward the AP levels. If a child is really strong at the language, this is no concern but they will be in classes with native speakers at that point which can make things more challenging. The earlier your child starts a language, the higher your child will need to go in the very challenging courses. For some, this is a positive, but for many others it is actually better to delay starting the language so that when they are in high school they are not forced to take the very high levels with the native speakers.

I was highly advised to not have my child start a language in 6th for this very reason. I am glad I followed that advise.

Your child's ability to get an A depends on your child, not on the presence of others who might have an easier time getting an A. His or her work has to stand on its own, regardless of who else is in the class. I took a language in high school in a class with native speakers. I did better than most of them, because they could not write well in the target language.
If your point is that you don't want your child to be able to reach the AP level of a language because you are scared he or she won't do well, then own that. I question why that would be different from any other subject, but perhaps you worry your child wouldn't do well in any AP or upper level class. An AP calculus class may have kids who are more naturally talented at math. AP English may have more gifted writers. Students should enroll in classes that are the appropriate level for themselves, not based on whether there could be possibly be someone else in the class with a perceived advantage.

And, some high schools offer specific Spanish for Spanish speakers classes. So native speakers would be in a different class.

[Anonymous]

Is there a path where the kid does not have to select any language in MS. Any pros/cons. TIA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:6th grade. Do both Spanish 1a/1b. Not hard at all. Very doable.

I agree with this - you have to know your child, but as long as he is an able learner, he should do fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a path where the kid does not have to select any language in MS. Any pros/cons. TIA

My kid is not at this school but has not taken any language in middle school (at a magnet and used his single elective on band)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a path where the kid does not have to select any language in MS. Any pros/cons. TIA

At our MS, there is no such path (unless it is done specifically for a specific kid). I personally value languages so like this policy.

However, if your child is a rising 6th grader and very weak in language learning, there is an option to remove the language from the high school transcript if it doesn't go well. So the kid could begin in 7th with language 1a and 8th with language 1b. Both go very slowly (half-speed). And if it doesn't go well, you could ask that neither grade be on the permanent transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is Silver Creek the only school where you don't have a choice? If your child doesn't need remedial reading, they have to take a language (1A/1B) in 6th grade. There is no other choice. It is an IB middle school. It doesn't seem like the material is going that fast TBH. Just curious.

SSIMS seems to offer 1A/B to all 6th graders who are above grade level in reading. There is no 1A only option. But, I don't know if students are required to take it. They can probably take digital literacy if they want, even if they are reading above grade level. I can't comment on the value of digital literacy, as none of the kids we know took it. They all took French or Spanish 1A/B, or are in immersion language classes. SSIMS already offers two electives in addition to language due to the 8 period block schedule. But maybe they would let a kid take a third elective rather than world language.
SSIMS is also an IB school.

From the presentation at SSIMS last week, all 6th graders except those below grade in math or reading (so that period is extra support) take either Spanish or French. They also have the option of transferring the three years to high school credit. This is in addition to the two electives.

[Anonymous]

Parent of a junior. She did Spanish 1A in 7th, 1B in 8th, 2 in 9th, and 3 in 10th and is now done. She really hated it, we didn't think the instruction was all that great, and she needed the room in her schedule to be able to take computer programming this year and AP Computer Programming (Java) next year.

Overall, we were comfortable with her not progressing to 4 years or up to the AP level and beyond. She has a ton of other APs, especially in math and science, and didn't want to drop band (the only other droppable class) because she is in a higher-level ensemble at her school. Overall she will have good grades, a schedule that demonstrates rigor

Which is all by way of saying -- yes, your kid should do her best to get the 3-4 years of language in, and middle school counts towards that, but don't assume that if your kid doesn't go through AP levels of a foreign language that her chances of getting into a competitive school will be tanked. Colleges look at the whole package, and different colleges look at different things. For example, our dd wants to go to an engineering school, so the foreign language is much less important than the math, science, and computer science courseload. And your kid also needs to be able to explore her interests and choose her own curriculum (with input/advice) as she gets to high school -- and if that doesn't include a foreign language past the third or fourth year, then that's a choice you should respect.

I'm someone who very much values instruction in foreign language, BTW -- having done several years of full-time intensive foreign instruction during undergrad and graduate school and having lived and worked overseas for many years. Our system of foreign language education sucks so badly in so many ways and illustrates how little we value foreign languages. If we truly valued them, we'd start meaningful foreign language instruction in kindergarten. But I can't blame my dd for wanting to stop -- even going through AP level would never have made her truly competent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Parent of a junior. She did Spanish 1A in 7th, 1B in 8th, 2 in 9th, and 3 in 10th and is now done. She really hated it, we didn't think the instruction was all that great, and she needed the room in her schedule to be able to take computer programming this year and AP Computer Programming (Java) next year.

Overall, we were comfortable with her not progressing to 4 years or up to the AP level and beyond. She has a ton of other APs, especially in math and science, and didn't want to drop band (the only other droppable class) because she is in a higher-level ensemble at her school. Overall she will have good grades, a schedule that demonstrates rigor

Which is all by way of saying -- yes, your kid should do her best to get the 3-4 years of language in, and middle school counts towards that, but don't assume that if your kid doesn't go through AP levels of a foreign language that her chances of getting into a competitive school will be tanked. Colleges look at the whole package, and different colleges look at different things. For example, our dd wants to go to an engineering school, so the foreign language is much less important than the math, science, and computer science courseload. And your kid also needs to be able to explore her interests and choose her own curriculum (with input/advice) as she gets to high school -- and if that doesn't include a foreign language past the third or fourth year, then that's a choice you should respect.

I'm someone who very much values instruction in foreign language, BTW -- having done several years of full-time intensive foreign instruction during undergrad and graduate school and having lived and worked overseas for many years. Our system of foreign language education sucks so badly in so many ways and illustrates how little we value foreign languages. If we truly valued them, we'd start meaningful foreign language instruction in kindergarten. But I can't blame my dd for wanting to stop -- even going through AP level would never have made her truly competent.

Very insightful information..thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So from what I am reading, competitive colleges prefer 3-4 years of HS foreign language. What if a child decides to take a new language in HS and goes up to only the 4th level by senior year, versus a child who had started taking foreign language in 6th grade but stopped in 10th grade? Does it matter that much how high of a level the kid goes up for these colleges or is it more relevant that the student takes all four years in high school even though student started from ground zero?

I think what colleges are really looking for is student schedules to represent certain core classes. If they see a student in English/Math/History/Science/Foreign Language every day, that's five hours of rigorous course work that's pretty universally available. When foreign language is swapped out for study hall, obviously that's much less rigorous. When it's swapped out for something that sounds academic but is particular to the given district, it's more ambiguous--so the student who was required to take language in HS may look more studious. That's about it. A few schools spell this out with specific expectations but mostly it's a nice to have.

[Anonymous]

I found that at our middle school orientation the staff were discouraging language in sixth grade. They really emphasized how difficult, rigorous and advanced it was and because of that how small the classes were.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that there is no concern with languages through Level 3, but that as you continue there are huge jumps as you get up toward the AP levels. If a child is really strong at the language, this is no concern but they will be in classes with native speakers at that point which can make things more challenging. The earlier your child starts a language, the higher your child will need to go in the very challenging courses. For some, this is a positive, but for many others it is actually better to delay starting the language so that when they are in high school they are not forced to take the very high levels with the native speakers.

I was highly advised to not have my child start a language in 6th for this very reason. I am glad I followed that advise.

Your child's ability to get an A depends on your child, not on the presence of others who might have an easier time getting an A. His or her work has to stand on its own, regardless of who else is in the class. I took a language in high school in a class with native speakers. I did better than most of them, because they could not write well in the target language.
If your point is that you don't want your child to be able to reach the AP level of a language because you are scared he or she won't do well, then own that. I question why that would be different from any other subject, but perhaps you worry your child wouldn't do well in any AP or upper level class. An AP calculus class may have kids who are more naturally talented at math. AP English may have more gifted writers. Students should enroll in classes that are the appropriate level for themselves, not based on whether there could be possibly be someone else in the class with a perceived advantage.

NP here - thank you. I needed to hear this. It sounds so obvious and sensible once you wrote it down, but I admit I had had some thoughts along the lines of some of the previous posters about trying to avoid the last level AP. You brought me back to my senses.

[Anonymous]

At our middle school, 3A/3B is not available. Students have to be bused to the high school very early. So if that is the case at your school I would recommend starting 1A/1B in 7th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I found that at our middle school orientation the staff were discouraging language in sixth grade. They really emphasized how difficult, rigorous and advanced it was and because of that how small the classes were.

Small classes with rigorous and advanced coursework - if this was any other class GT parents would be all over it! Why are people so afraid of 3 years of foreign language in middle school? Research has shown that the younger children are when learning a foreign language the more likely they are to become fluent. Waiting until high school, the window for language acquisition starts to close.

My rising 6th grader is looking forward to starting Spanish next year. His middle school offers world languages up to level 3.

[Anonymous]

It is not that we don't value foreign language
It is that it is taught so poorly, that even though the kids get good grades in MS in I, II and honors III, when they get to HS, they are unprepared. That's when the shock hits, and it is not the child's fault - it is that the MS teachers (including frequent substitutes, including long term substitutes who don't speak the foreign language they arw supposed to be teaching) are consistently bad.