Should the admissions process be colorblind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You're probably right since most elite, well-endowed, private schools are driven by high socio-economic status. And for historical reasons alluded to in previous posts, this is largely the historical domain of whites in America. True, there are the few newly minted and nouveau riche from other cultures that, too, are welcome targets for D.C. private schools in the interest of diversity and market share.

But surely if its color blind, the admissions team would not know who the kids are and how wealthy their families are so essentially the kids will get in on merit alone - the top x number of kids will be offered spaces. Why would this result in more white children being admitted unless you believe children of other colors are not as clever as white children as a whole?

Also why would you assume that wealthy people of other cultures are "nouveau riche"?

Your posts astounds me although why, after reading the Sidwell thred, I'll never know.

[Anonymous]

To 15.51: You need to get a line on the facts. Even in 2009, whites in America continue to be the largest beneficiary of preferences ("shoving in") because of lack of smarts to D.C. elite, private primary and secondary schools (affirmative action for legacies, siblings, financial donors, {...lacrosse, field hockey, swimming, cross country, golf, crew, tennis players for example, not to mention other sports} actors, and musicians). Over the years, you could fit the proportional representation from other groups into the proverbial telephone booth!

[Anonymous]

What are your criteria for a colorblind process? Grades? Test scores? And nothing else?

If you do that, then the talented musician won't make it in, the kid who is a community activist won't make it in, the kid who came up through bad schools in DCPS (smart but poorly trained) won't get in, the international kid whose English prevents her from scoring well on verbal tests won't get in. Jeez, my kid, who is a gifted writer but had a history of slacking on certain classes won't get in.

Furthermore, when I used to teach, I used class discussion and worked off students' experiences to draw out different themes. Good to have a diverse group so students can learn from each other to supplement what they learn from the prof and journal articles. When my white students said that a slouching young black man in a documentary with a hooded sweatshirt pulled up over his head looked a little scary (he was sitting at a table talking to a teacher NOT walking down a dark street), one of my black students (smart and hard working by the way) said, Oh he just looks like kids in my high school. Very different perspective on the same situation. As a prof I can tell them these things -- it has more impact if they hear it from each other.

BTW there's research that makes the case that diverse juries make better decisions than homogeneous juries.

Actually I'm feeling really cynical today so let me be outrageous: We need diversity in classrooms for the scared sheltered isolated upper middle class white kids who are afraid of working class black people. I'm so tired of white anxiety about poor black people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To 15.51: You need to get a line on the facts. Even in 2009, whites in America continue to be the largest beneficiary of preferences ("shoving in") because of lack of smarts to D.C. elite, private primary and secondary schools (affirmative action for legacies, siblings, financial donors, {...lacrosse, field hockey, swimming, cross country, golf, crew, tennis players for example, not to mention other sports} actors, and musicians). Over the years, you could fit the proportional representation from other groups into the proverbial telephone booth!

I am 15.51 - you have not answred my question. I just want to understand what the poster meant. If I had facts I would not be asking would I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are your criteria for a colorblind process? Grades? Test scores? And nothing else?

If you do that, then the talented musician won't make it in, the kid who is a community activist won't make it in, the kid who came up through bad schools in DCPS (smart but poorly trained) won't get in, the international kid whose English prevents her from scoring well on verbal tests won't get in. Jeez, my kid, who is a gifted writer but had a history of slacking on certain classes won't get in.

Furthermore, when I used to teach, I used class discussion and worked off students' experiences to draw out different themes. Good to have a diverse group so students can learn from each other to supplement what they learn from the prof and journal articles. When my white students said that a slouching young black man in a documentary with a hooded sweatshirt pulled up over his head looked a little scary (he was sitting at a table talking to a teacher NOT walking down a dark street), one of my black students (smart and hard working by the way) said, Oh he just looks like kids in my high school. Very different perspective on the same situation. As a prof I can tell them these things -- it has more impact if they hear it from each other.

BTW there's research that makes the case that diverse juries make better decisions than homogeneous juries.

Actually I'm feeling really cynical today so let me be outrageous: We need diversity in classrooms for the scared sheltered isolated upper middle class white kids who are afraid of working class black people. I'm so tired of white anxiety about poor black people.

Why would color blind admissions cause more whites to be admitted than whites if admission were on merit alone (rightly or wrongly).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I want my child to go to a diverse school so I want there to be all kinds of people there.

And you assume that would not happen in a colorblind process?

Yes.

Why - because people of some ethnic groups will not be smart enough to get in and need the shove in some way?

No because it won't be a colorblind process. Will you change the names on the applications, erase the schools' names, black out the names and letterhead of the people writing reference letters?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No. I want my child to go to a diverse school so I want there to be all kinds of people there.

And you assume that would not happen in a colorblind process?

Yes.

Why - because people of some ethnic groups will not be smart enough to get in and need the shove in some way?

No because it won't be a colorblind process. Will you change the names on the applications, erase the schools' names, black out the names and letterhead of the people writing reference letters?

But the whole thread is based on the assumption of color blindness whartever form that would take even if it did mean assigning numbers rather than names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What are your criteria for a colorblind process? Grades? Test scores? And nothing else?

If you do that, then the talented musician won't make it in, the kid who is a community activist won't make it in, the kid who came up through bad schools in DCPS (smart but poorly trained) won't get in, the international kid whose English prevents her from scoring well on verbal tests won't get in. Jeez, my kid, who is a gifted writer but had a history of slacking on certain classes won't get in.

Furthermore, when I used to teach, I used class discussion and worked off students' experiences to draw out different themes. Good to have a diverse group so students can learn from each other to supplement what they learn from the prof and journal articles. When my white students said that a slouching young black man in a documentary with a hooded sweatshirt pulled up over his head looked a little scary (he was sitting at a table talking to a teacher NOT walking down a dark street), one of my black students (smart and hard working by the way) said, Oh he just looks like kids in my high school. Very different perspective on the same situation. As a prof I can tell them these things -- it has more impact if they hear it from each other.

BTW there's research that makes the case that diverse juries make better decisions than homogeneous juries.

Actually I'm feeling really cynical today so let me be outrageous: We need diversity in classrooms for the scared sheltered isolated upper middle class white kids who are afraid of working class black people. I'm so tired of white anxiety about poor black people.

[Anonymous]

But surely if its color blind, the admissions team would not know who the kids are and how wealthy their families are so essentially the kids will get in on merit alone - the top x number of kids will be offered spaces. Why would this result in more white children being admitted unless you believe children of other colors are not as clever as white children as a whole?

Also why would you assume that wealthy people of other cultures are "nouveau riche"?

Your posts astounds me although why, after reading the Sidwell thred, I'll never know.

To 16:01:

Let me remind you that the key here is socioeconomic blinding of the admission's process that for "profit institutions" (large private endowment seeking) with non-profit status for tax benefits would refuse to do.

Are you telling us that a color blind system will automatically de-identify wealth, zip code and high socio-economic status of students?
Will a color blind system also de-identify the colorless who may be applying for financial aid?

You have lost your point. As long as the majority of the wealth in the D.C. area is held by whites they still win in a color-blind system. They will continue to push the preference and affirmative action buttons of connections, large monetary donations, legacy and sibship that other races do not have the access to. These other variables have trumped WPSSI scores for generations!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See, I think the process should be VIP and big $$$$$ blind.

Hey, I hear they have that in most states. It's called public school.

[Anonymous]

You got that right!

[Anonymous]

But surely if its color blind, the admissions team would not know who the kids are and how wealthy their families are so essentially the kids will get in on merit alone - the top x number of kids will be offered spaces.

...statement made by the epitome of dumb (DCUMMIE and child with a WPPSI score of 99.9 percentile)

[Anonymous]

Deep Thoughts (with apologies to Jack Handy)

I want there to be elite schools. Not so elite that my kid doesn’t get in. But elite enough so that once DC is admitted, people will assume s/he must be really smart. I don't think that would happen if s/he went to a regular school.

[Anonymous]

OP here re: process

By colorblind, I didn't mean that only scores would matter. It may not be practical, but I was thinking more in terms of a process in which the final set of people making the admissions decisions would not have any information regarding race/ethnicity. So schools could still collect that checkbox information if they want for statistical purposes, but this information would not be available to the group that meets to decide whom to admit. A different set of people would manage the playdates and parent interviews and write up notes. Each application could be assigned a case number instead of being referred to by the child's name.

My suspicion is that you would still get a group that's pretty diverse on ethnic/racial grounds, based on the number of well-educated, minority ethniticy parents around here, but I have no hard evidence to support that belief.

[Anonymous]

How would the playdate and interview be weighted in the admission's process in your scheme? If low, why even include this, since the eyeball alone may govern prejudice and preconceived notions that might trip the pen. There is ample evidence that such beliefs and emotions are less driven by test scores, grades and accomplishments, rather fueled by the color of one's skin.