FYI for all the people who say "go visit a school to see what it's really like"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said to go to a PTA meeting. Actually, I would suggest going to an event that isn't necessarily a PTA MEETING -- but rather a school event, like an ice cream social or the fall festival or the spring open house event (our school used to have "authors and artists" day). Go to anything that puts you in the vicinity of other parents... and then ask questions of parents/teachers/principal. Even go to the playgrounds after school hours and chat up the parents there. Public schools aren't looking to get your business. They don't have marketing teams like private schools do.

They don't care if you take them or leave them. (well, maybe the lower tiered schools are more receptive to middle and upper middle income parents and they have some minimal incentive to encourage those families to send their kids there).

Another PP is right -- GS and the school profile tell you about the demographics of a school. That basically (in a crude sort of way) tells you what your child's experience is going to be like. Every school has good teachers and mediocre teachers. I've never seen a completely terrible teacher. So, your child will learn something wherever you go.

Stats that are standardized across the county/state/nation are useful in understanding the overall achievement in a particular school. But, the high end kids do well anywhere. It's the ones who aren't super high achievers who benefit from being around high achieving peers.

In a nutshell, there isn't much you will get out of going on a tour or sitting in a particular class for 10 min. Look at the SES, look at the standardized tests (be that SOL or SATs), and talk to parents who have kids at that school.

If you have formed a particular vision of what a class should look like, then you are likely to be disappointed in public school, b/c it won't look like your ideal. Public schools (especially in elementary level) just won't "impress" you. In HS -- they might -- if you kid is taking honors and AP classes. And even in regular classes, kids are learning a lot in HS these days. But, in elementary school, the bells and whistles (and the personal attention) are at the private schools, not the public schools.

We toured three public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5). I got a really good sense of the culture of the schools. They opened the door of every classroom, we walked through the media center, we saw the playground and the cafeteria. I met the principals and talked to the office staff. Made it really easy to rank our neighborhoods, know we'd be fine with any of them.

1. where was this? It is not common to speak of "public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5)" in Virginia.

2. did your conclusions mirror the test data on the schools? (i.e. did you end up liking the school that had the highest test scores)

Not Virginia. North Carolina. Not sure why that matters; the point is that non-crowded public schools are more likely to do this.

My husband liked the ones with the highest test scores. I liked a different set with substantially lower scores. Neither was a bad choice, and we felt like we'd be happy with any of them.

We have too many children to afford private school even here; we were looking at $38K this year for the sole non-Christian private school (we are Jewish and these schools are very Christian). I'm in education and know all the issues with GS scores and FARMS rates and diversity, etc., etc.. The schools we ended up with are Title I schools, though their percentage of FARMS students is lower than the districts we did not end up in (40% vs. 50% and 60%). I fully admit that my neighborhood of choice for finding a house was higher-income and walking distance to the synagogue, so when we found a house that met our criteria there, we took it.

DP It matters because if the op is looking for info on DC/MD/VA schools than your information about how North Carolina's schools doesn't really apply and can't help. That is why it matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you looking for in a tour? You definitely won't be able to sit in on classes so really the only thing you can see is the building itself. You also won't be able to talk to the teachers or students. Public schools don't care one way or the other if you come there. Private schools care so that is why they hold open houses. My son went to a magnet elementary school and they did have an open house in November prior to the application deadline. The assistant principal gave a short talk in the cafeteria and they have 5th grade students giving brief tours. That was one day and they had a limit on the number of people attending (you had to RSVP by a certain date and they only had space for a certain number of people).

Because my subjective feelings about the school will overcome the objective data I want to ignore.

Objective data on test scores. You can measure that. But what does it tell you? That the school teaches well? Or just that it has high SES families? Does the environment of the high SES families somehow rub off on your kids? Some people think so. Some don't.

We killed a lot of Viet Cong. We lost anyway. Objective data only works if its measuring what actually matters.

DP I disagree. Schools can be still mediocre and the kids can perform well. My brother has experience with this. Point is those kids are tutored and pushed by the parents so they are already ahead. and will test very well. Teachers don't really have to be great because the kids are taught by other people. So test scores can be great and still technically not be a great school. Also, as we all know if you kid has any learning differences dyslexia, dyscalcuia Moco is not the place to be!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our school gives tours all the time.

Not helpful unless you state what school district/state you are talking about.

[Anonymous]

The OP was venting about not getting a tour. There were many ways the conversation could have developed from there. I'm not sure that there was any "helpful" response to be given re:tours. Those responses were just about whether OP's experience was unusual, and why someone might want a tour anyway.

[Anonymous]

GS scores, talking to people ... those are all fine, but you read resumes and call references and still bring the candidate in for a face-to-face interview, sometimes even for a trial.

Once you've bought a home, getting out of a school district is a lot harder than firing someone, too. I do think schools should give tours or allow visitors. I have no idea how to make that happen without overwhelming the staff.

[Anonymous]

The DCPS school I taught at had open houses and gave tours every month (because of the lottery in DC every school there has to be super open like this); I've already been on a tour at my local elementary school and my kid won't be going for two more years.

You can learn a lot from tours and it's an awesome chance to get your questions answered. At the school I worked at we had 3rd-5th graders lead the tours and you could learn a lot from simply asking them about their experiences and asking them to describe what you're seeing in classrooms. Plus the principal and PTA president always hosted every Open House and answered questions.

If incoming folks are demanding it, they'll start doing it. Call and ask again, or ask in a different way (e.g., e-mail). If they still say no, ask to meet with the principal or AP. My principal at my school in DC never said no when a potential parent asked for 30 minutes of their time.

Some other tips to get to know what a school is really like:
"Like" the school on facebook - both the school page and the PTA page.
Sign up for the school and the PTA e-newsletters.
Go to community events the school is hosting (like spring fests and pancake breakfasts). My school had playdates for incoming Kindergartners the spring before they started at the school (they were called Teddy Bear Picnics; another school I knew had Popsicles on the Playground) so see if they're doing that. And if they're not, suggest it!
Take your kid to playground after school/in the evening and chat with the parents who are there with similar-aged kids.

The numbers on GreatSchools only reflect the socio-economic status of the parents. It's no way to actually learn what a school is really like and if it's a good fit for your kid.

Research shows that most people just go to the schools the people they know go to (so, if all of your friends go to private, go private). You can do that. As someone with a background in education, I obviously prefer to do my own research and see things with my own eyes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:GS scores, talking to people ... those are all fine, but you read resumes and call references and still bring the candidate in for a face-to-face interview, sometimes even for a trial.

Once you've bought a home, getting out of a school district is a lot harder than firing someone, too. I do think schools should give tours or allow visitors. I have no idea how to make that happen without overwhelming the staff.

It's pretty easy. It just involves moving. Or paying a private school tuition. But moving is cheaper.

[Anonymous]

I worked at a FCPS middle school--not one of the highly regarded schools in the county--that did tours all the time (I'm currently at a different one). We would have groups of parents come through frequently, to decide if they wanted their children to attend--people looking to buy in the neighborhood, people looking to switch from private to public. It was (then, and continues to be) overcrowded, so it seems to be a school-by-school decision as to whether or not to do them, not something discouraged because a school is over-capacity. The principal himself led these tours, and they happened often. If a teacher had the door open during class, they could definitely hear and see what was going on in classrooms. He would specifically bring parents around during a class change too--he would tell us that he wasn't hiding a thing about his school. I have moved on, so I don't know if these tours are still happening, but it was a known thing during the time I worked there.