FYI for all the people who say "go visit a school to see what it's really like"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said to go to a PTA meeting. Actually, I would suggest going to an event that isn't necessarily a PTA MEETING -- but rather a school event, like an ice cream social or the fall festival or the spring open house event (our school used to have "authors and artists" day). Go to anything that puts you in the vicinity of other parents... and then ask questions of parents/teachers/principal. Even go to the playgrounds after school hours and chat up the parents there. Public schools aren't looking to get your business. They don't have marketing teams like private schools do.

They don't care if you take them or leave them. (well, maybe the lower tiered schools are more receptive to middle and upper middle income parents and they have some minimal incentive to encourage those families to send their kids there).

Another PP is right -- GS and the school profile tell you about the demographics of a school. That basically (in a crude sort of way) tells you what your child's experience is going to be like. Every school has good teachers and mediocre teachers. I've never seen a completely terrible teacher. So, your child will learn something wherever you go.

Stats that are standardized across the county/state/nation are useful in understanding the overall achievement in a particular school. But, the high end kids do well anywhere. It's the ones who aren't super high achievers who benefit from being around high achieving peers.

In a nutshell, there isn't much you will get out of going on a tour or sitting in a particular class for 10 min. Look at the SES, look at the standardized tests (be that SOL or SATs), and talk to parents who have kids at that school.

If you have formed a particular vision of what a class should look like, then you are likely to be disappointed in public school, b/c it won't look like your ideal. Public schools (especially in elementary level) just won't "impress" you. In HS -- they might -- if you kid is taking honors and AP classes. And even in regular classes, kids are learning a lot in HS these days. But, in elementary school, the bells and whistles (and the personal attention) are at the private schools, not the public schools.

We toured three public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5). I got a really good sense of the culture of the schools. They opened the door of every classroom, we walked through the media center, we saw the playground and the cafeteria. I met the principals and talked to the office staff. Made it really easy to rank our neighborhoods, know we'd be fine with any of them.

[Anonymous]

Most schools don’t do tours unless they are charter or choice schools. What you can do -
1. Look at the school website
2. See if there is a school FB group or school district group like Arlington School Matters
3. Search for the school name on DCUM
4. Go to a school board meeting or read the minutes to se what the hot issues are
5. Look up school board memeber office hours

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you looking for in a tour? You definitely won't be able to sit in on classes so really the only thing you can see is the building itself. You also won't be able to talk to the teachers or students. Public schools don't care one way or the other if you come there. Private schools care so that is why they hold open houses. My son went to a magnet elementary school and they did have an open house in November prior to the application deadline. The assistant principal gave a short talk in the cafeteria and they have 5th grade students giving brief tours. That was one day and they had a limit on the number of people attending (you had to RSVP by a certain date and they only had space for a certain number of people).

Because my subjective feelings about the school will overcome the objective data I want to ignore.

Objective data on test scores. You can measure that. But what does it tell you? That the school teaches well? Or just that it has high SES families? Does the environment of the high SES families somehow rub off on your kids? Some people think so. Some don't.

We killed a lot of Viet Cong. We lost anyway. Objective data only works if its measuring what actually matters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a huge problem with this. You touring is disruptive to the students and their day. Privates do it because they are selling themselves to parents but publics aren't in that position.

And who on staff is supposed to take time off to give tours? There is no admissions staff. Should tax dollars go to paying someone's salary so they can give tours to parents? I doubt anyone is thrilled with that.

Our local publics were happy to do it. We flew here for a few days before our military move to try to narrow down school districts for our housing search. They consider it part of their mission of making the schools central to the community. These schools are not overcrowded, however.

I’m an active duty family here with the military too. What helped seal the deal when we bought our house was talking to other parents in the neighborhood. The schools we’re zoned for don’t look great online due to overall lower test scores (not awful but lower than the “good” schools) but hearing how much the other families in our would-be neighborhood liked it, we became comfortable with them. We wanted both proximity and a SFH, and trying to stay close to BHA limited how “good” the schools would be.

[Anonymous]

Parents and the Principal are probably the most important things to check out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are you looking for in a tour? You definitely won't be able to sit in on classes so really the only thing you can see is the building itself. You also won't be able to talk to the teachers or students. Public schools don't care one way or the other if you come there. Private schools care so that is why they hold open houses. My son went to a magnet elementary school and they did have an open house in November prior to the application deadline. The assistant principal gave a short talk in the cafeteria and they have 5th grade students giving brief tours. That was one day and they had a limit on the number of people attending (you had to RSVP by a certain date and they only had space for a certain number of people).

Because my subjective feelings about the school will overcome the objective data I want to ignore.

Objective data on test scores. You can measure that. But what does it tell you? That the school teaches well? Or just that it has high SES families? Does the environment of the high SES families somehow rub off on your kids? Some people think so. Some don't.

We killed a lot of Viet Cong. We lost anyway. Objective data only works if its measuring what actually matters.

You might want to work on your analogies.

Schools with low test scores generally aren’t desirable.

[Anonymous]

Our school gives tours all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said to go to a PTA meeting. Actually, I would suggest going to an event that isn't necessarily a PTA MEETING -- but rather a school event, like an ice cream social or the fall festival or the spring open house event (our school used to have "authors and artists" day). Go to anything that puts you in the vicinity of other parents... and then ask questions of parents/teachers/principal. Even go to the playgrounds after school hours and chat up the parents there. Public schools aren't looking to get your business. They don't have marketing teams like private schools do.

They don't care if you take them or leave them. (well, maybe the lower tiered schools are more receptive to middle and upper middle income parents and they have some minimal incentive to encourage those families to send their kids there).

Another PP is right -- GS and the school profile tell you about the demographics of a school. That basically (in a crude sort of way) tells you what your child's experience is going to be like. Every school has good teachers and mediocre teachers. I've never seen a completely terrible teacher. So, your child will learn something wherever you go.

Stats that are standardized across the county/state/nation are useful in understanding the overall achievement in a particular school. But, the high end kids do well anywhere. It's the ones who aren't super high achievers who benefit from being around high achieving peers.

In a nutshell, there isn't much you will get out of going on a tour or sitting in a particular class for 10 min. Look at the SES, look at the standardized tests (be that SOL or SATs), and talk to parents who have kids at that school.

If you have formed a particular vision of what a class should look like, then you are likely to be disappointed in public school, b/c it won't look like your ideal. Public schools (especially in elementary level) just won't "impress" you. In HS -- they might -- if you kid is taking honors and AP classes. And even in regular classes, kids are learning a lot in HS these days. But, in elementary school, the bells and whistles (and the personal attention) are at the private schools, not the public schools.

We toured three public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5). I got a really good sense of the culture of the schools. They opened the door of every classroom, we walked through the media center, we saw the playground and the cafeteria. I met the principals and talked to the office staff. Made it really easy to rank our neighborhoods, know we'd be fine with any of them.

1. where was this? It is not common to speak of "public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5)" in Virginia.

2. did your conclusions mirror the test data on the schools? (i.e. did you end up liking the school that had the highest test scores)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said to go to a PTA meeting. Actually, I would suggest going to an event that isn't necessarily a PTA MEETING -- but rather a school event, like an ice cream social or the fall festival or the spring open house event (our school used to have "authors and artists" day). Go to anything that puts you in the vicinity of other parents... and then ask questions of parents/teachers/principal. Even go to the playgrounds after school hours and chat up the parents there. Public schools aren't looking to get your business. They don't have marketing teams like private schools do.

They don't care if you take them or leave them. (well, maybe the lower tiered schools are more receptive to middle and upper middle income parents and they have some minimal incentive to encourage those families to send their kids there).

Another PP is right -- GS and the school profile tell you about the demographics of a school. That basically (in a crude sort of way) tells you what your child's experience is going to be like. Every school has good teachers and mediocre teachers. I've never seen a completely terrible teacher. So, your child will learn something wherever you go.

Stats that are standardized across the county/state/nation are useful in understanding the overall achievement in a particular school. But, the high end kids do well anywhere. It's the ones who aren't super high achievers who benefit from being around high achieving peers.

In a nutshell, there isn't much you will get out of going on a tour or sitting in a particular class for 10 min. Look at the SES, look at the standardized tests (be that SOL or SATs), and talk to parents who have kids at that school.

If you have formed a particular vision of what a class should look like, then you are likely to be disappointed in public school, b/c it won't look like your ideal. Public schools (especially in elementary level) just won't "impress" you. In HS -- they might -- if you kid is taking honors and AP classes. And even in regular classes, kids are learning a lot in HS these days. But, in elementary school, the bells and whistles (and the personal attention) are at the private schools, not the public schools.

We toured three public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5). I got a really good sense of the culture of the schools. They opened the door of every classroom, we walked through the media center, we saw the playground and the cafeteria. I met the principals and talked to the office staff. Made it really easy to rank our neighborhoods, know we'd be fine with any of them.

1. where was this? It is not common to speak of "public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5)" in Virginia.

2. did your conclusions mirror the test data on the schools? (i.e. did you end up liking the school that had the highest test scores)

Not Virginia. North Carolina. Not sure why that matters; the point is that non-crowded public schools are more likely to do this.

My husband liked the ones with the highest test scores. I liked a different set with substantially lower scores. Neither was a bad choice, and we felt like we'd be happy with any of them.

We have too many children to afford private school even here; we were looking at $38K this year for the sole non-Christian private school (we are Jewish and these schools are very Christian). I'm in education and know all the issues with GS scores and FARMS rates and diversity, etc., etc.. The schools we ended up with are Title I schools, though their percentage of FARMS students is lower than the districts we did not end up in (40% vs. 50% and 60%). I fully admit that my neighborhood of choice for finding a house was higher-income and walking distance to the synagogue, so when we found a house that met our criteria there, we took it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the PP who said to go to a PTA meeting. Actually, I would suggest going to an event that isn't necessarily a PTA MEETING -- but rather a school event, like an ice cream social or the fall festival or the spring open house event (our school used to have "authors and artists" day). Go to anything that puts you in the vicinity of other parents... and then ask questions of parents/teachers/principal. Even go to the playgrounds after school hours and chat up the parents there. Public schools aren't looking to get your business. They don't have marketing teams like private schools do.

They don't care if you take them or leave them. (well, maybe the lower tiered schools are more receptive to middle and upper middle income parents and they have some minimal incentive to encourage those families to send their kids there).

Another PP is right -- GS and the school profile tell you about the demographics of a school. That basically (in a crude sort of way) tells you what your child's experience is going to be like. Every school has good teachers and mediocre teachers. I've never seen a completely terrible teacher. So, your child will learn something wherever you go.

Stats that are standardized across the county/state/nation are useful in understanding the overall achievement in a particular school. But, the high end kids do well anywhere. It's the ones who aren't super high achievers who benefit from being around high achieving peers.

In a nutshell, there isn't much you will get out of going on a tour or sitting in a particular class for 10 min. Look at the SES, look at the standardized tests (be that SOL or SATs), and talk to parents who have kids at that school.

If you have formed a particular vision of what a class should look like, then you are likely to be disappointed in public school, b/c it won't look like your ideal. Public schools (especially in elementary level) just won't "impress" you. In HS -- they might -- if you kid is taking honors and AP classes. And even in regular classes, kids are learning a lot in HS these days. But, in elementary school, the bells and whistles (and the personal attention) are at the private schools, not the public schools.

We toured three public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5). I got a really good sense of the culture of the schools. They opened the door of every classroom, we walked through the media center, we saw the playground and the cafeteria. I met the principals and talked to the office staff. Made it really easy to rank our neighborhoods, know we'd be fine with any of them.

1. where was this? It is not common to speak of "public primary schools (K-2) and three public elementary schools (3-5)" in Virginia.

2. did your conclusions mirror the test data on the schools? (i.e. did you end up liking the school that had the highest test scores)

Not Virginia. North Carolina. Not sure why that matters; the point is that non-crowded public schools are more likely to do this.

My husband liked the ones with the highest test scores. I liked a different set with substantially lower scores. Neither was a bad choice, and we felt like we'd be happy with any of them.

We have too many children to afford private school even here; we were looking at $38K this year for the sole non-Christian private school (we are Jewish and these schools are very Christian). I'm in education and know all the issues with GS scores and FARMS rates and diversity, etc., etc.. The schools we ended up with are Title I schools, though their percentage of FARMS students is lower than the districts we did not end up in (40% vs. 50% and 60%). I fully admit that my neighborhood of choice for finding a house was higher-income and walking distance to the synagogue, so when we found a house that met our criteria there, we took it.

Well, it matters because you are on the VIRGINIA public schools forum and suggesting that it is quite easy to get lots of tours and that the tours significantly influenced your decision on where to buy a house. The OP posted in the Virginia public schools forum and reported that s/he had a hard time getting a tour (presumably in a Virginia public school). So... you can see the disconnect.

[Anonymous]

I’m just going to be blunt - the kinds of schools that will give tours to families who are deciding whether or not to send their kids there are a) private schools that need to convince people they are worth the money and b) Title I or similar schools that are trying to encourage upper middle class families to send their neighborhood kids instead of seeking out option or private schools.

High-performing public schools generally will not give tours unless your child is registered/enrolled. Why would they? They know they have a good reputation, they are probably overcrowded, and don’t care if you send your kids there or not.

[Anonymous]

When we were moving I attended kindergarten orientations in the spring even though my child would not be starting K the following year. The orientations were listed on the school website and they wanted parents to call and register. I did and they knew I wasn’t enrolling a kindergartener. I never expected the school to give me a personalized private tour. You can learn a lot at these and every one included a tour of the school. This was FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we were moving I attended kindergarten orientations in the spring even though my child would not be starting K the following year. The orientations were listed on the school website and they wanted parents to call and register. I did and they knew I wasn’t enrolling a kindergartener. I never expected the school to give me a personalized private tour. You can learn a lot at these and every one included a tour of the school. This was FCPS.

APS does something like this too. I toured multiple schools this way. It was during the school day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When we were moving I attended kindergarten orientations in the spring even though my child would not be starting K the following year. The orientations were listed on the school website and they wanted parents to call and register. I did and they knew I wasn’t enrolling a kindergartener. I never expected the school to give me a personalized private tour. You can learn a lot at these and every one included a tour of the school. This was FCPS.

+1. It's not realistic to expect weekly tours during school (parents can't even go into most schools due to security rules these days). Many schools offer them a few times a year or at K orientation, but even then its not something all offer

[Anonymous]

I wasn't suggesting it was easy to do. I was giving a reason that they don't do them where you are, but also calling bs on the idea that you learn nothing from a tour anyway.

You do learn something valuable, and it's too bad they said no. But it's understanable.