Reasonable to expect coaches to break ball-hogging/Star syndrome?

[Anonymous]

Other countries also have a structure that runs through U21-23

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’ve lived in the same neighborhood for years. A group of boys including my son have played rec league together for two years.

The kids are U9. They have now joined a more advanced league together. Three of the players are children of the former rec coaches. An unfortunate pattern developed where they were favored during play and encouraged to hog the ball. They would also only pass to one another. My DS and several other strong players were shut out of playing any offense and relegated to defense.

As a result of those years of play, my DS now thinks of himself as an exclusively defensive player. This is also true of at least four other players that have advanced with him. All of them are strong players, but they have learned not to challenge the three “stars.”

Is it reasonable to expect their new coach to break the old patterns of play? So far, I’m not seeing any change and the new coach is allowing the three players to dominate offense, as before. To be fair, they are more comfortable in offense, because that’s the role they’re used to playing.

I and the other parents were hoping that our kids would be given more opportunities to play different positions. Should we speak up?

I dont understand how much opportunity your children could have had so far this season. 1 or 2 games max?

It’s difficult at u9 and maybe even slightly older age groups to break these patterns. Coaches have “vision” lol. but this early time in their development they should be going for theirs, its about individual development, not team wins. If your kids aren’t and they say they want to, a change needs to be made. its either you or the coach/team. and it likely will take years and multiple coaches for change. you can either wait or try to force a change due to fit.

If your kid is playing defense and not looking for 1-2s and not making runs, i am going to put the blame squarely on him for right now.

[Anonymous]

This is actually something where parents do need to get involved. Start by talking to their kid of course. You need to look for clubs and coaches that emphasize learning the game. Everyone talks a good game but do they carry through and actually do it? Without kids around do talk to the coach before tryouts preferred (but do not delay even now) and ask what is the clubs policy on playing kids in different positions. Different clubs can have different philosophies. I liked the plan of letting kids have a few games at a position and then rotating. But, I don’t say that is the best way.

It is important.

My daughter played 4 years in college. In club starting at 14 she played exclusively as a defender. She played for one of the top teams in our then state and every kid who wanted to play in college did that. But, every college coach my kid talked to saw her as a forward or right mid. Not one saw her as a defender. She ultimately played as a defensive center mid in a diamond. In 4 years she played less than 90 minutes as a defender. She was not unique. Other than keeper, kids must play a variety of positions.

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is actually something where parents do need to get involved. Start by talking to their kid of course. You need to look for clubs and coaches that emphasize learning the game. Everyone talks a good game but do they carry through and actually do it? Without kids around do talk to the coach before tryouts preferred (but do not delay even now) and ask what is the clubs policy on playing kids in different positions. Different clubs can have different philosophies. I liked the plan of letting kids have a few games at a position and then rotating. But, I don’t say that is the best way.

It is important.

My daughter played 4 years in college. In club starting at 14 she played exclusively as a defender. She played for one of the top teams in our then state and every kid who wanted to play in college did that. But, every college coach my kid talked to saw her as a forward or right mid. Not one saw her as a defender. She ultimately played as a defensive center mid in a diamond. In 4 years she played less than 90 minutes as a defender. She was not unique. Other than keeper, kids must play a variety of positions.

And plenty of pro keepers played multiple positions in their high school years.

this is one of the main reasons I stay away from team sports like soccer or baseball for this exact reasons. Too much favortism and nepotism going on. This sport is such subjectivity that a good player seen by one coach can be seen as a bad player by another coach. There is no right or wrong answer, just based on the coaching philosophy. You add that with uninformed parents who know nothing about soccer and you get into situation like this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is actually something where parents do need to get involved. Start by talking to their kid of course. You need to look for clubs and coaches that emphasize learning the game. Everyone talks a good game but do they carry through and actually do it? Without kids around do talk to the coach before tryouts preferred (but do not delay even now) and ask what is the clubs policy on playing kids in different positions. Different clubs can have different philosophies. I liked the plan of letting kids have a few games at a position and then rotating. But, I don’t say that is the best way.

It is important.

My daughter played 4 years in college. In club starting at 14 she played exclusively as a defender. She played for one of the top teams in our then state and every kid who wanted to play in college did that. But, every college coach my kid talked to saw her as a forward or right mid. Not one saw her as a defender. She ultimately played as a defensive center mid in a diamond. In 4 years she played less than 90 minutes as a defender. She was not unique. Other than keeper, kids must play a variety of positions.

And plenty of pro keepers played multiple positions in their high school years.

this is one of the main reasons I stay away from team sports like soccer or baseball for this exact reasons. Too much favortism and nepotism going on. This sport is such subjectivity that a good player seen by one coach can be seen as a bad player by another coach. There is no right or wrong answer, just based on the coaching philosophy. You add that with uninformed parents who know nothing about soccer and you get into situation like this one.

Would you like a link to the swimming/tennis forum?

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:get over it, in other countries, kids are getting scouted at 6 years old. what you see here is nothing compared to that.

Where?

"River Plate’s academy, La Escuela de Fútbol River Plate, begins admitting players at the under-7 level with the aim of producing professional footballers for the first team. The football played at River Plate demands its players to combine skill, intelligence, and tactical nous with the tenacity they bring from playing in local sides and in the streets hoping to be spotted. As such, the footballing curriculum is structured around competencies that translate directly to game play.

The first step for a player is building a sound technical foundation. Scouts comb the streets of Buenos Aires before setting out around Argentina, searching for raw talent in direct competition with River Plate’s nearby rivals, Boca Juniors."

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/04/09/the-river-plate-academy-way/

[Anonymous]

In England, what we call "travel soccer" starts at U7. Academy intake at pro clubs starts at U9.

[Anonymous]

you may not be able to tell which players will become future professionals or anything, but you can certainly identify talent even at younger ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

RantingSoccerDad wrote:

Anonymous wrote:get over it, in other countries, kids are getting scouted at 6 years old. what you see here is nothing compared to that.

Where?

"River Plate’s academy, La Escuela de Fútbol River Plate, begins admitting players at the under-7 level with the aim of producing professional footballers for the first team. The football played at River Plate demands its players to combine skill, intelligence, and tactical nous with the tenacity they bring from playing in local sides and in the streets hoping to be spotted. As such, the footballing curriculum is structured around competencies that translate directly to game play.

The first step for a player is building a sound technical foundation. Scouts comb the streets of Buenos Aires before setting out around Argentina, searching for raw talent in direct competition with River Plate’s nearby rivals, Boca Juniors."

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/04/09/the-river-plate-academy-way/

Remember this really interesting article about the set-up at Ajax https://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/06/magazine/06Soccer-t.html ? At the end of it, the author and a scout are going to check out a promising 5 year old.

[Anonymous]

Germany also helps young coaches like Nagelsmann and Tedesco become certified. Same with Iceland. There is quality coaching across the board.

[Anonymous]

And they do it at a fraction of the cost that families pay in our area. In Germany, the professional clubs' academies are either free to play or they pay the athletes, while the average cost per family for grassroots soccer is 3.5 euro per month. Beat that USSF!

https://www.dfb.de/en/news/detail/amateurs-football-is-there-for-everyone-113804/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And they do it at a fraction of the cost that families pay in our area. In Germany, the professional clubs' academies are either free to play or they pay the athletes, while the average cost per family for grassroots soccer is 3.5 euro per month. Beat that USSF!

https://www.dfb.de/en/news/detail/amateurs-football-is-there-for-everyone-113804/

Socialism

[Anonymous]

RantingSoccerDad wrote:It happens, yes.

Just not to the extent that we think.

And the countries we admire most, Germany and Iceland, are still casting a very wide net up to age 12 and even into the teens. It's not "pro academy at U9 or bust."

See another piece from These Football Times, which talks about Icelandic players having opportunities to walk into their local clubs, get good coaching and even have the opportunity to go on to big-time pro soccer.

https://thesefootballtimes.co/2015/01/15/the-icelandic-roadmap-to-success/

Here's a summary on Germany and how the federation makes an effort to find kids in the 10-14 years who aren't at the Bayern Munichs and Dortmunds: https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/sep/05/germany-football-team-youth-development-to-world-cup-win-2014

Starting the scouting process at a young age and casting a wide net for as long as possible are not mutually exclusive. It is not "pro academy at U9 or bust" anywhere that is serious about finding and developing the best footballers. Everyone recognizes that development is uneven, kids who were nothing special at 8 may blossom by age 15, and the opposite happens as well. For that reason, the scouting process is never ending. Every year at pro academies, players are let go to make room for others who will take their place. Clubs are constantly on the lookout for players who may - for a variety of reasons - have fallen through the cracks up to that point.

The recent experience of local player Aethan Yohanes is a good example of this. According to his dad's twitter feed, hs family moved to the Netherlands a year or two ago and he initially signed on with an amateur club. After a while his talent was recognized - I think he got selected to a regional team or something, kind of sounded like ODP - and now he's at 1st division AZ Alkmar, and was recently called up to the US U15 NT camp. I don't think he was a late developer, but the point is that professional clubs do keep scouting and looking for new players even from amateur clubs well into their teenage years.

By comparison, how many MLS scouts do you think were watching the last round of ODP regional events, looking for those diamonds in the rough?

[Anonymous]

When a US player makes a European academy, it does not mean he would make it as a professional in Europe. The competition is very stiff and only a very small percentage of all academy players would make it to the first team. However, spending time at European academy means the player would get superior training and competition than at any MLS academy so it maximizes his opportunities to succeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When a US player makes a European academy, it does not mean he would make it as a professional in Europe.[i] The competition is very stiff and only a very small percentage of all academy players would make it to the first team. However, spending time at European academy means the player would get superior training and competition than at any MLS academy so it maximizes his opportunities to succeed.

Isn't that true for any player that makes a European Academy?