"Rescue" buying dogs from auctions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also kind of question the incentives involved with the rescues that brings stray dogs from the south up north for adoption. I know people who have great dogs great homes that way, but doesn’t it just encourage irresponsible pet ownership in certain areas of the country? I donate thousands every year to dog rescue groups - but maybe instead we should fund a “neuter your dog get $50” program in the Deep South.

I think a lot of the time, when a rescue is supposedly bringing dogs from far away, it's basically code for purchasing from puppy mills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Rescue operations in my county get first choice on puppies and small breeds from the local animal shelter (which means there are NONE available to the public). They then charge rehoming fees of several hundred dollars, clearly a way for certain individuals to make $. Burns me up.

What a scam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think one of our "rescue" dogs is from one of these shady operations. Designer mix puppy, only 10 weeks old, "rescued" from an Amish breeder. The issue wasn't on my radar at the time, but in hindsight it seems obvious. Our second rescue is from City Dogs and came with a good amount of information about her history.

Same here. I've kept an eye on the rescue I got my dog from and it's become clear that they are one of these rescues. And my dog is the poster child for a poorly bred, messed up, puppy mill product. I love him but oooooooooh boy is he a health disaster both mentally and physically.

Ugh, I am sorry. At least your dogs are with good people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most racehorses end up at auction. If they haven't placed as three year olds they aren't worth the feed and stabling costs. Think about this the next time you are tempted to place a bet on a horse race. Thoroughbreds have been ruined by the very specific need for speed.

In my experience - it's not the Thoroughbred industry that's the worst - it's the Standardbreds that get sent to slaughter the most - at least at the New Holland auctions. The Tennessee Walker industry is also pretty bad, a lot of gaited horses get ran through too and they are truly broken down because of soring done to their feet - even though it's technically illegal to do, it's still done on the show horses. The good news is that some racetracks are now banning owners and trainers from racing or boarding at those tracks if they find out horses have been sold to slaughter. About two months ago some old guy in Texas got banned and kicked out of a stable because he took ten of his horses to auction at Elkhart TX and they were all bought by a killbuyer, who then put them on his FB page to sell. Someone turned him in by tracing back the lip tattoo on a horse named "Mula Grula," and there was a big stink in the news about it. His granddaughter then went and bought all those horses back in order to get back into the good graces of the TX Racing Commission.

As for the Amish - yeah, they may break a horse, but they also break horses, in the worst sense of the word. I have seen so many Belgian drafts, Haflingers, and Standardbreds that can't even walk through the ring, broken down and skinny, you can tell by looking at them they've never had teeth floated or any semblance of veterinary care. I hate the Amish for what they do to animals that serve them - the least they can do is give that animal a kind release from pain as thank you for the years of service that animal has given them. They are also the number one source of puppy mill dogs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does this make the rescue "shady"?

Simultaneously decrying puppy mills while purchasing from them and creating a market for puppy mills is absolutely shady.

I donate to one of the orgs mentioned in this story.

If the rescues don't buy the "used" dogs, what do you think is going to happen to them when the breeders decide they are done with them?

I don't like giving the breeders money either, but if the used dogs aren't purchased, they are going to be thrown away like garbage/killed in a horrible manner.

[Anonymous]

PP here, I also volunteer to do the bookkeeping for a local area rescue group. It is entirely volunteer run. Volunteers go to shelters down south, pull dogs that they think can be rescued - meaning they aren't aggressive, and if they have medical issues, they are medical issues that we can address - and we get them into vets and fosters down south. Every few weeks, we pay someone a small fee to transport a van full of these dogs to the DMV. Fosters here in the DMV then take the dogs home and we keep them until someone applies to adopt the dog. We charge about $300 in adoption fees which helps cover the costs of vetting, transport, supplies. NO ONE in the rescue group is making any money.

The dogs we pull aren't puppy mill dogs that's true; But when I hear people talking about buying dogs from "reputable breeders", it just makes me want to cry. There are so many abandoned dogs that need homes.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a seizure disorder; someone adopted her and she's happy now.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a blown out ACL that the org paid to fix. Happily adopted now.

I have fostered a small dog whose pelvis had to be completely rebuilt because someone had kicked it and broken all the bones.

I fostered a dog that was left tied to someone's front porch for weeks and weeks and not fed. It was a bag of bones.

Last weekend I saw a dog at the foster rendevouz that had had acid thrown on it. The dog was still sweet and nice to people.

It never fails to astonish me how resilient and loving these dogs still are.

The problem is not the rescue groups buying the used breeding dogs. The problem is the demand for the puppies of the used breeding dogs. Now I do agree there are some shady rescues out there. Do your research and go with a reputable rescue group or shelter. For heaven's sake, please, please don't contribute to the problem by encouraging breeding of any dogs anywhere by buying from breeders.

A good test is if the group you are getting a dog from insists on spay/neuter before giving you the dog.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think one of our "rescue" dogs is from one of these shady operations. Designer mix puppy, only 10 weeks old, "rescued" from an Amish breeder. The issue wasn't on my radar at the time, but in hindsight it seems obvious. Our second rescue is from City Dogs and came with a good amount of information about her history.

A lot of rescue dogs are hunting breeds who were part of a hunting pack for the fall and then released for the winter so they don’t have to feed them. Also - lots of pit bulls or just bad backyard creations. These dogs don’t always make good family dogs.
How is buying a puppy mill dog for a very small amount at an auction supporting a puppy mill? I’m sure that it doesn’t support their efforts very much or cover their costs.
I know that many purebred dogs with docked tails are found wandering the street sometimes so they were either puppy mill dogs or backyard breeder dogs that were not purchased. Should they have been put to sleep instead? Would that make the WaPo happier?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here, I also volunteer to do the bookkeeping for a local area rescue group. It is entirely volunteer run. Volunteers go to shelters down south, pull dogs that they think can be rescued - meaning they aren't aggressive, and if they have medical issues, they are medical issues that we can address - and we get them into vets and fosters down south. Every few weeks, we pay someone a small fee to transport a van full of these dogs to the DMV. Fosters here in the DMV then take the dogs home and we keep them until someone applies to adopt the dog. We charge about $300 in adoption fees which helps cover the costs of vetting, transport, supplies. NO ONE in the rescue group is making any money.

The dogs we pull aren't puppy mill dogs that's true; But when I hear people talking about buying dogs from "reputable breeders", it just makes me want to cry. There are so many abandoned dogs that need homes.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a seizure disorder; someone adopted her and she's happy now.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a blown out ACL that the org paid to fix. Happily adopted now.

I have fostered a small dog whose pelvis had to be completely rebuilt because someone had kicked it and broken all the bones.

I fostered a dog that was left tied to someone's front porch for weeks and weeks and not fed. It was a bag of bones.

Last weekend I saw a dog at the foster rendevouz that had had acid thrown on it. The dog was still sweet and nice to people.

It never fails to astonish me how resilient and loving these dogs still are.

The problem is not the rescue groups buying the used breeding dogs. The problem is the demand for the puppies of the used breeding dogs. Now I do agree there are some shady rescues out there. Do your research and go with a reputable rescue group or shelter. For heaven's sake, please, please don't contribute to the problem by encouraging breeding of any dogs anywhere by buying from breeders.

A good test is if the group you are getting a dog from insists on spay/neuter before giving you the dog.

I foster a lot of dogs too but I don’t begrudge people their dogs from a breeder. It’s not these peoples fault that people in some regions of the country are endlessly backyard breeding dogs. Some of those dog mixes are not good. Many are wonderful, but so are the dogs from family breeders. Maybe the rescues should put some time and thought into cutting down in the backyard breeding or just the lack of spaying and neutering of dogs and cats in many areas instead.

[Anonymous]

^^ I would beg those people to just TRY. Just check petfinder and see if an adoptable dog near you could be "good enough" instead of feeding into the dog breeding industry. There are too many dogs in this world and not enough love and care to go around. Please be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

But back to the topic of this thread, I feel that groups like National Mill Dog Rescue are part of the solution, and she gets many of her used (and badly neglected) dogs from what you would call "reputable breeders".

http://milldogrescue.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew the rescue thing was a sham, think about it - how many cute fluffy dogs are there just sitting around to be rescued? If all the rescues were pitty mixes I could see that, but nowadays having a "rescue" dog is some kind of statement especially in progressive neighborhoods now that says you are PC, and just like most of that kind of thing my BS meter went off full blast.

+1

Basically I believe you have a legit rescue dog if you have a pit mix or Chihuahua.

WTF?

Go down to the Humane Society. Full of owner surrenders. I've adopted three.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here, I also volunteer to do the bookkeeping for a local area rescue group. It is entirely volunteer run. Volunteers go to shelters down south, pull dogs that they think can be rescued - meaning they aren't aggressive, and if they have medical issues, they are medical issues that we can address - and we get them into vets and fosters down south. Every few weeks, we pay someone a small fee to transport a van full of these dogs to the DMV. Fosters here in the DMV then take the dogs home and we keep them until someone applies to adopt the dog. We charge about $300 in adoption fees which helps cover the costs of vetting, transport, supplies. NO ONE in the rescue group is making any money.

The dogs we pull aren't puppy mill dogs that's true; But when I hear people talking about buying dogs from "reputable breeders", it just makes me want to cry. There are so many abandoned dogs that need homes.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a seizure disorder; someone adopted her and she's happy now.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a blown out ACL that the org paid to fix. Happily adopted now.

I have fostered a small dog whose pelvis had to be completely rebuilt because someone had kicked it and broken all the bones.

I fostered a dog that was left tied to someone's front porch for weeks and weeks and not fed. It was a bag of bones.

Last weekend I saw a dog at the foster rendevouz that had had acid thrown on it. The dog was still sweet and nice to people.

It never fails to astonish me how resilient and loving these dogs still are.

The problem is not the rescue groups buying the used breeding dogs. The problem is the demand for the puppies of the used breeding dogs. Now I do agree there are some shady rescues out there. Do your research and go with a reputable rescue group or shelter. For heaven's sake, please, please don't contribute to the problem by encouraging breeding of any dogs anywhere by buying from breeders.

A good test is if the group you are getting a dog from insists on spay/neuter before giving you the dog.

I will always buy my dogs from the best breeders, because they are the only ones who are working toward the health betterment of dog breeds. Responsible breeding means:
- only breeding dogs who have had a rigorous health screen for genetic diseases,
- never breeding a dam more than twice in her entire life and only after she turns 2,
- care 24/7,
- less than 5 dogs living in the owner's home, not in a kennel,
- video feed to clients so that we can observe everything,
- daily handling of the pups from birth to get them used to vets and groomers, controlled exposure to all kinds of noises and experiences.

Thank you very much for saving dogs' lives, PP. I am grateful for the work you do.
However, if you care about the dog as a species, you MUST realize that work has to be done on several different issues simultaneously.
You work in the short term to save many individual lives. This is wonderful!
Good breeders work the long-term goal of cleaning up a hundred years of ignorant production of dogs purely for cosmetic purposes, which has led to the GS' and Golden's lower back and leg paralysis, the brachycephalic breeds' breathing problems, the CCKC's heart disease, etc. They register their dogs with CHIC, which is an online health database for dogs, where markers for every single major inheritable disease is noted. You can look a dog up, as well as his ancestors, and see whether that line is healthy enough to breed.

These are the breeders who do NOT make money! As you can imagine, breeding two litters for every dam when you have 2 or 3 dams is a time-consuming hobby, not a business! Usually the price of the puppies recoups the costs of vet care and the rest.

[Anonymous]

So you think it's cool to have puppy making as a hobby? having two or three dams times two or three times a year times 5 puppies per litter? So estimate 45 puppies per year?

Here's a pricing sheet on boxer puppies. It says $800 - $2000 PER PUPPY: http://www.newcastleboxers.com/pricing.shtml

So that's a hobby that grosses between $40k and $90k per year? Not a business indeed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you think it's cool to have puppy making as a hobby? having two or three dams times two or three times a year times 5 puppies per litter? So estimate 45 puppies per year?

Here's a pricing sheet on boxer puppies. It says $800 - $2000 PER PUPPY: http://www.newcastleboxers.com/pricing.shtml

So that's a hobby that grosses between $40k and $90k per year? Not a business indeed.

Wrong.

You keep thinking of a factory when these people ARE NOT IN THAT KIND OF BUSINESS. My breeder had no plans to breed her dogs for the next two years, because it's a ton of work, given her high standards, and keep in mind I just wrote that she does not want her dams bred more than twice in their lifetime.

You have to understand that the best breeders are not in it for the money, and are not factories. They are not there to maximize profits.

They are actually very close in mindset to the PP who works so hard for rescues!

It makes me sad to see how prejudiced a lot of people are. They wave away all breeders, as if they were all tarred with the same brush. And this scandal about rescues will make some people wave away all rescues, as if they were somehow all guilty. You do realize that these knee-jerk biases are the basis of all racism, xenophobia and intolerance?

Try instead to listen and educate yourself. If something seems simple and easy to dismiss, then chances are the reality is much more complex.
Just as for immigration, tax reform, denuclearization, etc...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP here, I also volunteer to do the bookkeeping for a local area rescue group. It is entirely volunteer run. Volunteers go to shelters down south, pull dogs that they think can be rescued - meaning they aren't aggressive, and if they have medical issues, they are medical issues that we can address - and we get them into vets and fosters down south. Every few weeks, we pay someone a small fee to transport a van full of these dogs to the DMV. Fosters here in the DMV then take the dogs home and we keep them until someone applies to adopt the dog. We charge about $300 in adoption fees which helps cover the costs of vetting, transport, supplies. NO ONE in the rescue group is making any money.

The dogs we pull aren't puppy mill dogs that's true; But when I hear people talking about buying dogs from "reputable breeders", it just makes me want to cry. There are so many abandoned dogs that need homes.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a seizure disorder; someone adopted her and she's happy now.

I have fostered a dog through them who had a blown out ACL that the org paid to fix. Happily adopted now.

I have fostered a small dog whose pelvis had to be completely rebuilt because someone had kicked it and broken all the bones.

I fostered a dog that was left tied to someone's front porch for weeks and weeks and not fed. It was a bag of bones.

Last weekend I saw a dog at the foster rendevouz that had had acid thrown on it. The dog was still sweet and nice to people.

It never fails to astonish me how resilient and loving these dogs still are.

The problem is not the rescue groups buying the used breeding dogs. The problem is the demand for the puppies of the used breeding dogs. Now I do agree there are some shady rescues out there. Do your research and go with a reputable rescue group or shelter. For heaven's sake, please, please don't contribute to the problem by encouraging breeding of any dogs anywhere by buying from breeders.

A good test is if the group you are getting a dog from insists on spay/neuter before giving you the dog.

Unfortunately, this is not actually a test of a good rescue. There are rescues that essentially prop up the puppy mill industry that do this. When dog auctions are having 40-50% of their dogs bought by "rescues," those "rescues" are directly supporting the market for puppy mills, full stop. The puppy mills are breeding for the auctions, at that point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ I would beg those people to just TRY. Just check petfinder and see if an adoptable dog near you could be "good enough" instead of feeding into the dog breeding industry. There are too many dogs in this world and not enough love and care to go around. Please be part of the solution instead of part of the problem.

But back to the topic of this thread, I feel that groups like National Mill Dog Rescue are part of the solution, and she gets many of her used (and badly neglected) dogs from what you would call "reputable breeders".

http://milldogrescue.org/

If you only do this, you are absolutely likely to be supporting puppy mills because there are plenty of "rescues" that sell their dogs via petfinder.

I think people who go to ethical breeders are more of the solution than people who blindly support any group who calls themselves a rescue and puts a dog up on Petfinder with a donation fee, frankly. There are good rescues organizations, but you need to go to them, and you need to know the history of the group. I think there are also "rescues" that are basically fronts for the puppy mill industry. They create a market for puppy mills by buying at auction, as described in this article.