If you left biglaw as an associate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here -Very interesting thread. So those of you who worked in big law, knowing what you now know - would you make the same choice as to this particularly life path/trajectory again?

For me, definitely would do it again. I am one of the PPs, and left biglaw for DOJ after about 5 years. I'm happy at DOJ and have no plans to go back to private practice. But starting out my career making 160-230k for 5 years set me on solid financial footing, in a way that wouldn't have been possible if I had started at DOJ. (For example, I purchased a condo, paid down a lot of my student debt, and built up a little nest egg). I also think that having already experienced biglaw life, I am not tempted by the greener-looking grass over there. I'm happy where I am in a way that I might not have been if I hadn't started out in biglaw. (FWIW, I actually applied for and was not accepted by DOJ honors. I would have jumped at the chance if I had been accepted.)

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine went to work for a big firm, but he knew he didn't want to make it his career. His strategy was to live on the equivalent of a government attorney's salary (and not the GS-15 max) and use the rest of his income to aggressively pay off his student loans, while maxing out retirement savings options. I don't know what his net worth was, but when he eventually left for government service, he had no student debt and his lifestyle didn't take a hit. He said the key was never to get used to spending the money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here -Very interesting thread. So those of you who worked in big law, knowing what you now know - would you make the same choice as to this particularly life path/trajectory again?

Absolutely! I would have stayed even more years (I left in my 6th year) but my DH got a job in a different city and we had to move. I now am extremely happy as a partner in a small firm, but riding that 5, 6, 7th year salary is really amazing if you're in the right practice group (which I was) - especially when you know that there is a good chance you'll likely leave.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here -Very interesting thread. So those of you who worked in big law, knowing what you now know - would you make the same choice as to this particularly life path/trajectory again?

Yes. Agree with all the others that it puts you on solid financial footing if you plan carefully. This was important to me because I don't come from family money and in fact have to help relatives. I made it a priority to not consolidate my loans and paid them off completely one by one, which had the effect of lowering my monthly obligation. That gave me the budget breathing room to take a job that paid less. My husband came out of law school the same year as me but went straight into public service with the loan repayment programs, and bought a rowhouse in close-in NE DC in 2011 (good timing) instead of paying off debt. That paid off because the rowhouse is now worth a ton and we're probably going to sell it and roll the proceeds into a down payment for a SFH in a good school district in DC, something that would otherwise be way out of reach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Np here -Very interesting thread. So those of you who worked in big law, knowing what you now know - would you make the same choice as to this particularly life path/trajectory again?

Do you mean financially or otherwise?

14:39 here -- career wise -- yes. Financially -- hell yes. Career wise -- I was one of the rare ones that loved it and had a good experience bc I had the right workaholic tendencies. Didn't make partner bc in the smaller support department I was in, a partner is only made like once a decade when someone else retires but I also wasn't going to be able to stay together. So I regret how it turned out and honestly having only been in gov't for 3 yrs and not being totally lazy yet, I'm contemplating trying to go back to another biglaw firm as a super-senior or counsel if I could. Sure partnership still wouldn't be a guarantee and would be unlikely, but if I could do what I like for say 3 more yrs -- that'd be worth it to me -- not to mention boosting the savings a LOT.

Financially -- see above. I'm sure people will say -- so what, 7 figures is nothing. But for me coming from a middle class (true middle class - not DCUM middle class of 300k) family where there was CONSTANT concern re paying for retirement, college, and how potential layoffs would be handled -- for me cracking 7 figures by myself in my 30s was a BIG deal. The way I see it, if I were to go back and get up to say $1.5 mil or $1.75 mil and it still didn't work out -- I could always take some of that NW and start a regular business (not hanging up a shingle but literally buying a franchise or something) and come out ahead.

[Anonymous]

Most big law associates I know get very comfortable with their cushy salaries and live their lives accordingly. They aren't scrimping and saving by living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs; they are living in luxury apartments in the city or the close in suburbs. They blow off steam by going out to expensive dinners and exclusive bars and clubs. They travel internationally and go on extravagant weekend trips because that is what their peers all do. When they get engaged they splurge for a fancy 1.5 carat + engagement ring.

The fancy lifestyle coupled with student loans adds up quickly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most big law associates I know get very comfortable with their cushy salaries and live their lives accordingly. They aren't scrimping and saving by living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs; they are living in luxury apartments in the city or the close in suburbs. They blow off steam by going out to expensive dinners and exclusive bars and clubs. They travel internationally and go on extravagant weekend trips because that is what their peers all do. When they get engaged they splurge for a fancy 1.5 carat + engagement ring.

The fancy lifestyle coupled with student loans adds up quickly.

Most biglaw associate I know are in between the two extremes you've presented. They're not scrimping and saving living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs, but they aren't blowing all their money on travel and diamond rings either.

I saved up a $300k "nest egg", and bought a condo (downtown) during my 5 years in biglaw. I also traveled internationally and ate at fancy restaurants, sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most big law associates I know get very comfortable with their cushy salaries and live their lives accordingly. They aren't scrimping and saving by living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs; they are living in luxury apartments in the city or the close in suburbs. They blow off steam by going out to expensive dinners and exclusive bars and clubs. They travel internationally and go on extravagant weekend trips because that is what their peers all do. When they get engaged they splurge for a fancy 1.5 carat + engagement ring.

The fancy lifestyle coupled with student loans adds up quickly.

Most Biglaw associates are working too much to have much time to spend money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most big law associates I know get very comfortable with their cushy salaries and live their lives accordingly. They aren't scrimping and saving by living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs; they are living in luxury apartments in the city or the close in suburbs. They blow off steam by going out to expensive dinners and exclusive bars and clubs. They travel internationally and go on extravagant weekend trips because that is what their peers all do. When they get engaged they splurge for a fancy 1.5 carat + engagement ring.

The fancy lifestyle coupled with student loans adds up quickly.

Most biglaw associate I know are in between the two extremes you've presented. They're not scrimping and saving living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs, but they aren't blowing all their money on travel and diamond rings either.

I saved up a $300k "nest egg", and bought a condo (downtown) during my 5 years in biglaw. I also traveled internationally and ate at fancy restaurants, sure.

This was my experience in biglaw too. Sure there were lots of meals at nice restaurants and a good number of vacations, but it's not like there was a $5000 spending spree every weekend - the way people assume on this board re biglaw associates. And yeah almost everyone I knew lived close to work. Frankly there didn't used to be THAT much time to spend bc you're working a lot -- typically 6 days a week at least when I was an associate in NYC a few years ago. Though workflow ebbs and flows based on department, economy and the firm's business generation.

The people in my class that lived large -- crazy luxury apartments, keeping a Mercedes in Manhattan that rarely got driven, constant travel (more than 2-3 vacations/yr) -- were people who already came from money and in some cases were only doing biglaw for a few yrs to get it on the resume and then were moving over to daddy's company as a Senior VP or whatever. For them biglaw was going to be the least amount of $ they made in their lives so saving wasn't vital.

[Anonymous]

How much did everyone actually like the work? I'm late 30's now, but many years ago (when I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do), I was planning on going to law school. I took the LSAT and got a 170.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to, including a lot of former biglaw associates, talked me out of it. I've never seen a profession where more members actively discouraged new entrants. Full disclosure, I never applied, but was also anxious about my ability to get into a good law school even with a high LSAT, great work experience, and a great undergrad school (Princeton), due to low undergrad grades (3.0).

I went to B-School at Darden instead, and it has worked out very well. Been at the same hospitality firm since I graduated, and love the work, people, and benefits. Comp is fine, $200kish, but I have to admit to being jealous at the earning power both of biglaw associates, but then going in-house at a company like mine. On the flip side, I'm not sure I would enjoy the work I partner with our GCO on (lots of negotiations and redlining contracts).

Everything has worked out, but I often wonder what-if.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How much did everyone actually like the work? I'm late 30's now, but many years ago (when I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do), I was planning on going to law school. I took the LSAT and got a 170.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to, including a lot of former biglaw associates, talked me out of it. I've never seen a profession where more members actively discouraged new entrants. Full disclosure, I never applied, but was also anxious about my ability to get into a good law school even with a high LSAT, great work experience, and a great undergrad school (Princeton), due to low undergrad grades (3.0).

I went to B-School at Darden instead, and it has worked out very well. Been at the same hospitality firm since I graduated, and love the work, people, and benefits. Comp is fine, $200kish, but I have to admit to being jealous at the earning power both of biglaw associates, but then going in-house at a company like mine. On the flip side, I'm not sure I would enjoy the work I partner with our GCO on (lots of negotiations and redlining contracts).

Everything has worked out, but I often wonder what-if.

Also, I'm amazed by how many peers have HLS degrees and are working on the business side at my company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much did everyone actually like the work? I'm late 30's now, but many years ago (when I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do), I was planning on going to law school. I took the LSAT and got a 170.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to, including a lot of former biglaw associates, talked me out of it. I've never seen a profession where more members actively discouraged new entrants. Full disclosure, I never applied, but was also anxious about my ability to get into a good law school even with a high LSAT, great work experience, and a great undergrad school (Princeton), due to low undergrad grades (3.0).

I went to B-School at Darden instead, and it has worked out very well. Been at the same hospitality firm since I graduated, and love the work, people, and benefits. Comp is fine, $200kish, but I have to admit to being jealous at the earning power both of biglaw associates, but then going in-house at a company like mine. On the flip side, I'm not sure I would enjoy the work I partner with our GCO on (lots of negotiations and redlining contracts).

Everything has worked out, but I often wonder what-if.

Also, I'm amazed by how many peers have HLS degrees and are working on the business side at my company.

See above at 11:34. Honestly I loved it. You have to have a certain workaholic, attention to detail, nothing else matters more tendency. And if you do and end up with decent partners, it can be a great experience. I was seriously bummed to not make partner and have to leave. I'm definitely debating taking a 2nd shot somewhere. Though having an undergrad business degree and a business acumen, I do wonder if I could make the switch to the business side -- bc I don't particularly want to go somewhere, slog for partner, and not make it. And for me -- a hospitality (hotel) co. would be a top choice . . . except I have 13 yrs of financial services type experience . . . .

I'm not one of the ones who discourages people from going. I think it's good work, a time of intense work and focus in your life, and it sets you up financially. From about 90% of my classmates though -- I think they'd be the type to discourage their kids from going bc they personally hated it. The reason you get so many biglaw attys discouraging you is bc 90%+ of them were humanities majors who "liked to write" or "liked to argue." They got great grades/scores, so law made sense as a high paying profession. Then they get there and realize that to be high paying, you have to do biglaw. 99% of biglaw clients are business/financial services -- so now you have associates with ZERO interest in the work they must do/companies they represent -- couple that with long hours and they see it as the worst ever. So I definitely thing biglaw is an awesome track but ONLY if you have some inherent interest in finance (at least on the east coast -- I didn't work on a single matter that wasn't financial services related at my NYC firm; maybe it'd be different if I were an associate in Atlanta?).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much did everyone actually like the work? I'm late 30's now, but many years ago (when I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do), I was planning on going to law school. I took the LSAT and got a 170.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to, including a lot of former biglaw associates, talked me out of it. I've never seen a profession where more members actively discouraged new entrants. Full disclosure, I never applied, but was also anxious about my ability to get into a good law school even with a high LSAT, great work experience, and a great undergrad school (Princeton), due to low undergrad grades (3.0).

I went to B-School at Darden instead, and it has worked out very well. Been at the same hospitality firm since I graduated, and love the work, people, and benefits. Comp is fine, $200kish, but I have to admit to being jealous at the earning power both of biglaw associates, but then going in-house at a company like mine. On the flip side, I'm not sure I would enjoy the work I partner with our GCO on (lots of negotiations and redlining contracts).

Everything has worked out, but I often wonder what-if.

Also, I'm amazed by how many peers have HLS degrees and are working on the business side at my company.

See above at 11:34. Honestly I loved it. You have to have a certain workaholic, attention to detail, nothing else matters more tendency. And if you do and end up with decent partners, it can be a great experience. I was seriously bummed to not make partner and have to leave. I'm definitely debating taking a 2nd shot somewhere. Though having an undergrad business degree and a business acumen, I do wonder if I could make the switch to the business side -- bc I don't particularly want to go somewhere, slog for partner, and not make it. And for me -- a hospitality (hotel) co. would be a top choice . . . except I have 13 yrs of financial services type experience . . . .

I'm not one of the ones who discourages people from going. I think it's good work, a time of intense work and focus in your life, and it sets you up financially. From about 90% of my classmates though -- I think they'd be the type to discourage their kids from going bc they personally hated it. The reason you get so many biglaw attys discouraging you is bc 90%+ of them were humanities majors who "liked to write" or "liked to argue." They got great grades/scores, so law made sense as a high paying profession. Then they get there and realize that to be high paying, you have to do biglaw. 99% of biglaw clients are business/financial services -- so now you have associates with ZERO interest in the work they must do/companies they represent -- couple that with long hours and they see it as the worst ever. So I definitely thing biglaw is an awesome track but ONLY if you have some inherent interest in finance (at least on the east coast -- I didn't work on a single matter that wasn't financial services related at my NYC firm; maybe it'd be different if I were an associate in Atlanta?).

The PP above sounds very hard-working and ambitious. I think you should definitely leave government. But instead of returning to a firm and depending on them to make you partner, why not go into business for yourself. With your motivation, it sounds like you could very much succeed on your own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much did everyone actually like the work? I'm late 30's now, but many years ago (when I was young and didn't know what I wanted to do), I was planning on going to law school. I took the LSAT and got a 170.

Pretty much everyone I spoke to, including a lot of former biglaw associates, talked me out of it. I've never seen a profession where more members actively discouraged new entrants. Full disclosure, I never applied, but was also anxious about my ability to get into a good law school even with a high LSAT, great work experience, and a great undergrad school (Princeton), due to low undergrad grades (3.0).

I went to B-School at Darden instead, and it has worked out very well. Been at the same hospitality firm since I graduated, and love the work, people, and benefits. Comp is fine, $200kish, but I have to admit to being jealous at the earning power both of biglaw associates, but then going in-house at a company like mine. On the flip side, I'm not sure I would enjoy the work I partner with our GCO on (lots of negotiations and redlining contracts).

Everything has worked out, but I often wonder what-if.

Also, I'm amazed by how many peers have HLS degrees and are working on the business side at my company.

See above at 11:34. Honestly I loved it. You have to have a certain workaholic, attention to detail, nothing else matters more tendency. And if you do and end up with decent partners, it can be a great experience. I was seriously bummed to not make partner and have to leave. I'm definitely debating taking a 2nd shot somewhere. Though having an undergrad business degree and a business acumen, I do wonder if I could make the switch to the business side -- bc I don't particularly want to go somewhere, slog for partner, and not make it. And for me -- a hospitality (hotel) co. would be a top choice . . . except I have 13 yrs of financial services type experience . . . .

I'm not one of the ones who discourages people from going. I think it's good work, a time of intense work and focus in your life, and it sets you up financially. From about 90% of my classmates though -- I think they'd be the type to discourage their kids from going bc they personally hated it. The reason you get so many biglaw attys discouraging you is bc 90%+ of them were humanities majors who "liked to write" or "liked to argue." They got great grades/scores, so law made sense as a high paying profession. Then they get there and realize that to be high paying, you have to do biglaw. 99% of biglaw clients are business/financial services -- so now you have associates with ZERO interest in the work they must do/companies they represent -- couple that with long hours and they see it as the worst ever. So I definitely thing biglaw is an awesome track but ONLY if you have some inherent interest in finance (at least on the east coast -- I didn't work on a single matter that wasn't financial services related at my NYC firm; maybe it'd be different if I were an associate in Atlanta?).

The PP above sounds very hard-working and ambitious. I think you should definitely leave government. But instead of returning to a firm and depending on them to make you partner, why not go into business for yourself. With your motivation, it sounds like you could very much succeed on your own.

Haha -- thank you! You must've read my mind because in the last few years in the government -- where I have all the time in the world for my mind to wander -- I AM suddenly thinking about starting a business, literally for the first time ever. It was never anything I wanted in undergrad, law school, or biglaw. But now I do think -- I'm willing to work as hard as I need to, so why not make that $$ for myself instead for some employer who then doesn't make me partner (law firms) or hands me a 1% raise (gov't). Trying to come up with a timeline for such a thing and workable ideas, as I KNOW I do NOT want to start my own law firm. I have a few friends who've gone down that road and it looks like a struggle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most big law associates I know get very comfortable with their cushy salaries and live their lives accordingly. They aren't scrimping and saving by living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs; they are living in luxury apartments in the city or the close in suburbs. They blow off steam by going out to expensive dinners and exclusive bars and clubs. They travel internationally and go on extravagant weekend trips because that is what their peers all do. When they get engaged they splurge for a fancy 1.5 carat + engagement ring.

The fancy lifestyle coupled with student loans adds up quickly.

Most biglaw associate I know are in between the two extremes you've presented. They're not scrimping and saving living in dumpy apartments in the suburbs, but they aren't blowing all their money on travel and diamond rings either.

I saved up a $300k "nest egg", and bought a condo (downtown) during my 5 years in biglaw. I also traveled internationally and ate at fancy restaurants, sure.

This was my experience in biglaw too. Sure there were lots of meals at nice restaurants and a good number of vacations, but it's not like there was a $5000 spending spree every weekend - the way people assume on this board re biglaw associates. And yeah almost everyone I knew lived close to work. Frankly there didn't used to be THAT much time to spend bc you're working a lot -- typically 6 days a week at least when I was an associate in NYC a few years ago. Though workflow ebbs and flows based on department, economy and the firm's business generation.

The people in my class that lived large -- crazy luxury apartments, keeping a Mercedes in Manhattan that rarely got driven, constant travel (more than 2-3 vacations/yr) -- were people who already came from money and in some cases were only doing biglaw for a few yrs to get it on the resume and then were moving over to daddy's company as a Senior VP or whatever. For them biglaw was going to be the least amount of $ they made in their lives so saving wasn't vital.

SO many people from law school came from at least enough family money that they didn't have to take out loans. That makes a huge difference. A few more I know used family money to buy a condo. Now you really have disposable income.