The financial advantages of NOT getting married

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is such an interesting idea and honestly, something I’ve never considered. Who is really going to know if you’re “legally” married or not?

Just the government. You either register your marriage or you don't.

I will talk to the fiancee tonight.

Or every single person when you die and can't get the body released from the mortuary/funeral home.
Your 'MIL' when the hospital calls her and said you don't have the right to make decisions for your spouse.
The lawyer when you want to ask for division of property and they found out only the other spouse's name is on the mortgage/deed.

Just some scenarios there. Not advocating marriage for financial security on the front-end though, its mostly for SAHMs who don't have any other way to financially support themselves otherwise.

The first two issues can be dealt with through a power-of-attorney agreement, IIRC. I'm happy to be corrected, if someone has more information.

We are both already on the mortgages and deeds together, so that's not an issue.

[Anonymous]

You can (and should) both be on the mortgage and deed. It’s not like you have to be legally married to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For the PSLF folks, there's a loophole that you may qualify for, although it's not perfect. You can file separately, but make sure that you ask for the IBR or ICR plans. No PAYE or REPAYE. They don't factor in the spouse's income at all. HOWEVER, filing separately will reduce you down to $5000 on SALT (it splits it from joint), and you can no longer deduct student loan interest.

PAYE also does NOT consider spousal income.
https://thecollegeinvestor.com/17807/the-math-behind-married-filing-separately-for-ibr-or-paye/

I am currently on REPAYE, but can't switch to PAYE because I have an old (and small) undergrad loan consolidated in my total loan package. So they won't let me switch to PAYE. I can switch to IBR or ICR, but my monthly payment jumps significantly. I'm trying to maximize forgiveness, so it seems that waiting out the clock on PSLF will be best. The money I save can then be used for funding my own child's 529.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op—there is a legal marriage and a religious marriage. Have the religious ceremony but not the legal one. The legal one causes the tax issues. The religious one offers the ability oncommit to on another in front of friends and family.

If you’re in track to get married, you should be able to have an open discussion with your fiancée about the very real and annual financial impacts.

Most clergymen will require you to produce a marriage license before marrying you. Generally you can't get married religiously in a legit place unless you're legally married as well. Clergy doesn't want to be involved in anything the state hasn't blessed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

I ran the math earlier this AM. If we get married and register with the government, we will pay an extra:
-$7500 per year in student loans. This amount can go up as we earn more money (I need to submit taxes every year to re-certify), and thus less is ultimately forgiven by PSLF.
-Around $2-3K more in taxes due to the loss of SALT deductions

Where things get tricky is if we have kids. I think - from a tax perspective - we may be more advantaged if we have a kid and just have one of us claim the child as an exemption.

My only big concern is what happens if one of us dies. I do not believe she would be able to claim Social Security survivor-spouse benefits. I need to look more into this.

Once PSLF is complete, I would move forward with a legal marriage.

Is this crazy? We can save $60K or so over the next 6 years by not marrying.

Why don’t you believe you should repay all of your student loan debt? Do you only have a portion of degree?

Basically, you are costing the rest of us $60k over the next six years by playing house. Why should she be able to claim your SS?

[Anonymous]

I would say that had I really thought about it ahead of time, I may have avoided getting legally married for financial reasons. I know a lot of people now that do this. Have the ceremony and party and just never legalize it or wait till a more opportune time. Just get a really good will and a civil union if you want to share health insurance and you may need to if you want to be in the room when she gives birth. Honestly, other than that- it's silly now a days. BUT- being semi sentimental, I do like that we are official, have the same last name, etc. But it certainly wasn't the smart financial thing to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

I ran the math earlier this AM. If we get married and register with the government, we will pay an extra:
-$7500 per year in student loans. This amount can go up as we earn more money (I need to submit taxes every year to re-certify), and thus less is ultimately forgiven by PSLF.
-Around $2-3K more in taxes due to the loss of SALT deductions

Where things get tricky is if we have kids. I think - from a tax perspective - we may be more advantaged if we have a kid and just have one of us claim the child as an exemption.

My only big concern is what happens if one of us dies. I do not believe she would be able to claim Social Security survivor-spouse benefits. I need to look more into this.

Once PSLF is complete, I would move forward with a legal marriage.

Is this crazy? We can save $60K or so over the next 6 years by not marrying.

Show her the math. Ask her what her thoughts are. Talk about a time table for kids and work back to legal marriage from there. Talk about having a religious ceremony only. Let her know you love her and want to marry her; you are just asking what she thinks about the finances. You have to be able to communicate effectively about all of these things.

If you are worried about SS benefits (which hey, may not be there anyway!), buy a life insurance policy. Term life for cheap, whole life if you want an investment. The younger you buy, the cheaper the rates. Last time I checked it takes ten years of marriage to qualify for spousal SS benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would say that had I really thought about it ahead of time, I may have avoided getting legally married for financial reasons. I know a lot of people now that do this. Have the ceremony and party and just never legalize it or wait till a more opportune time. Just get a really good will and a civil union if you want to share health insurance and you may need to if you want to be in the room when she gives birth. Honestly, other than that- it's silly now a days. BUT- being semi sentimental, I do like that we are official, have the same last name, etc. But it certainly wasn't the smart financial thing to do.

Many health insurers/orgs allow domestic partners to join the insurance group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op—there is a legal marriage and a religious marriage. Have the religious ceremony but not the legal one. The legal one causes the tax issues. The religious one offers the ability oncommit to on another in front of friends and family.

If you’re in track to get married, you should be able to have an open discussion with your fiancée about the very real and annual financial impacts.

Most clergymen will require you to produce a marriage license before marrying you. Generally you can't get married religiously in a legit place unless you're legally married as well. Clergy doesn't want to be involved in anything the state hasn't blessed.

it doesn't have to be a real clergyman. I have friends who get an online certification to marry people.

OP I'm sure if you want to, you can get a religious or spiritual ceremony without a license.

Oh and I don't think a license is valid until it's signed by witnesses, right? I don't remember if you have to return it/file it after the fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say that had I really thought about it ahead of time, I may have avoided getting legally married for financial reasons. I know a lot of people now that do this. Have the ceremony and party and just never legalize it or wait till a more opportune time. Just get a really good will and a civil union if you want to share health insurance and you may need to if you want to be in the room when she gives birth. Honestly, other than that- it's silly now a days. BUT- being semi sentimental, I do like that we are official, have the same last name, etc. But it certainly wasn't the smart financial thing to do.

Many health insurers/orgs allow domestic partners to join the insurance group.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you have to get a civil union in most cases. My sister had to with her significant other while pregnant- they live together happily unmarried but unionized and they just have to file a piece of paper to get it dissolved.

Also, another financial positive to marriage, I refinanced my student debt (non government worker) so I had a pretty low interest rate with SoFi and was happy to pay the rest of it off, but my spouse didn't like the idea of debt in general and wanted to unload it. He had a lot more saved that me, and being married meant he didn't "gift" me the money and therefore have to pay taxes on the gift (anything over $10k I think). I'm now "paying him back" into our savings/investments fund and no longer paying any interest. So that felt like at least one benefit. But that was in a private sector loan situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here:

I ran the math earlier this AM. If we get married and register with the government, we will pay an extra:
-$7500 per year in student loans. This amount can go up as we earn more money (I need to submit taxes every year to re-certify), and thus less is ultimately forgiven by PSLF.
-Around $2-3K more in taxes due to the loss of SALT deductions

Where things get tricky is if we have kids. I think - from a tax perspective - we may be more advantaged if we have a kid and just have one of us claim the child as an exemption.

My only big concern is what happens if one of us dies. I do not believe she would be able to claim Social Security survivor-spouse benefits. I need to look more into this.

Once PSLF is complete, I would move forward with a legal marriage.

Is this crazy? We can save $60K or so over the next 6 years by not marrying.

Why don’t you believe you should repay all of your student loan debt? Do you only have a portion of degree?

Basically, you are costing the rest of us $60k over the next six years by playing house. Why should she be able to claim your SS?

It's an earned benefit and one piece of a larger compensation package when you are employed by the government. Just like a pension, health insurance, etc. You'd be an idiot to not make the most of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say that had I really thought about it ahead of time, I may have avoided getting legally married for financial reasons. I know a lot of people now that do this. Have the ceremony and party and just never legalize it or wait till a more opportune time. Just get a really good will and a civil union if you want to share health insurance and you may need to if you want to be in the room when she gives birth. Honestly, other than that- it's silly now a days. BUT- being semi sentimental, I do like that we are official, have the same last name, etc. But it certainly wasn't the smart financial thing to do.

Many health insurers/orgs allow domestic partners to join the insurance group.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you have to get a civil union in most cases. My sister had to with her significant other while pregnant- they live together happily unmarried but unionized and they just have to file a piece of paper to get it dissolved.

Also, another financial positive to marriage, I refinanced my student debt (non government worker) so I had a pretty low interest rate with SoFi and was happy to pay the rest of it off, but my spouse didn't like the idea of debt in general and wanted to unload it. He had a lot more saved that me, and being married meant he didn't "gift" me the money and therefore have to pay taxes on the gift (anything over $10k I think). I'm now "paying him back" into our savings/investments fund and no longer paying any interest. So that felt like at least one benefit. But that was in a private sector loan situation.

Well I'm glad you're "pretty sure" but I'm the HR person here and I just enrolled someone's domestic partner in the insurance. All they had to do was file a form. United Health Care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would say that had I really thought about it ahead of time, I may have avoided getting legally married for financial reasons. I know a lot of people now that do this. Have the ceremony and party and just never legalize it or wait till a more opportune time. Just get a really good will and a civil union if you want to share health insurance and you may need to if you want to be in the room when she gives birth. Honestly, other than that- it's silly now a days. BUT- being semi sentimental, I do like that we are official, have the same last name, etc. But it certainly wasn't the smart financial thing to do.

Many health insurers/orgs allow domestic partners to join the insurance group.

Right, but I'm pretty sure you have to get a civil union in most cases. My sister had to with her significant other while pregnant- they live together happily unmarried but unionized and they just have to file a piece of paper to get it dissolved.

Also, another financial positive to marriage, I refinanced my student debt (non government worker) so I had a pretty low interest rate with SoFi and was happy to pay the rest of it off, but my spouse didn't like the idea of debt in general and wanted to unload it. He had a lot more saved that me, and being married meant he didn't "gift" me the money and therefore have to pay taxes on the gift (anything over $10k I think). I'm now "paying him back" into our savings/investments fund and no longer paying any interest. So that felt like at least one benefit. But that was in a private sector loan situation.

Well I'm glad you're "pretty sure" but I'm the HR person here and I just enrolled someone's domestic partner in the insurance. All they had to do was file a form. United Health Care.

1) Never rely on your HR person to know anything - I know too many people, including myself, that have been given completely wrong information so.many.times.
2) All states are different- whether they call it civil union, domestic partnership, or whatever - you usually have to file something official and pay a fee to get partner benefits.
3) You obviously seem like someone who will do their homework before making an important life decision such as this - look up your state laws, talk to an accountant/lawyer, call your insurance company, but first and foremost talk to your partner because the most important thing is to be on the same page if finances trump all else.

[Anonymous]

There is a movie that you may have heard of "Love Don't Cost a Thing." But in real life, it does. Ask any married couple that has been married for a while and they will tell you that there is a cost to marriage (and it's not just financial). Hopefully, they will tell you of its benefits as well.

If you make all of your decisions in light of financial benefit, you may miss out on other non-monetary benefits and realize that in one of the biggest decisions, possibly most important in your life, you are letting a tax code dictate your values and what you do.

In some way, money influences what we do and we see it here on these boards every day - should I pay off my mortgage, how much house can I afford, etc. But for the most intimate decision you can make, do you want money to be the sole determinant of whether you tie the knot or not?

At some point, you have to look at the relationship based on its merits and decide whether it is worth it or not to get married. $60k over 6 years is not a trivial sum of money but it's also not the end of the world. The point is, as a married couple, you'll be facing that together, not separately - for better or for worse.

For all those people saying that being together as two individuals is the same as being married, I'd argue that it's not. That piece of paper is worth something in the eyes of the state. I get the fact that it's cheaper for OP to stay un-married on paper and married together spiritually, mentally and emotionally but it's a bit of a fraud that OP is perpetrating for financial purposes only (assuming that OP tells other people that they are married and not being married to save money on taxes). OP is not married in the eyes of the state.

And if having a marriage certificate doesn't matter, then why did gay couples fight so hard and for so long for that right?

OP, live your values. If you love your spouse, marry her/him and make it official so that the world knows, the government knows and everyone else. If you live long enough, you'll see that money comes and goes. You don't get to sign a marriage certificate and the associated commitments but maybe once in your life (for some twice or thrice). Don't make the most intimate and important decision of your life based on a few thousand dollars and a tax code.

[Anonymous]

One thing you would lose would be the ability to have the house titled as tenants in the entirety. It's probably not a concern for you at your income level but just something to consider.