behavior color cards? does anyone find this offensive?

[Anonymous]

Any child who perpetually gets on "red" -- more than once or twice a week in the first few weeks -- should be moved to a more individual behavior management system and have other interventions put into place.

The issue I've seen is that it's a bit of a one trick pony for many teachers though. My older DD (that I mentioned above, now in third grade) was ALWAYS on yellow and red in first grade. ALWAYS. And the teacher had no idea what to do with her. And it was for things like talking out of turn, getting emotional in class, etc. And it's not like she did not care. She was in TEARS every day because she did not want to be on red, but could not control herself. But the teacher (her second year teaching) really didn't know what to do with her when the red card system didn't work and honestly there was nothing to do. She was an impulsive 6 year old. She's now 8 and does much better, but only time helped her. Eventually the teacher just stopped using the system with her because it clearly didn't work and only made her more upset.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Any child who perpetually gets on "red" -- more than once or twice a week in the first few weeks -- should be moved to a more individual behavior management system and have other interventions put into place.

The issue I've seen is that it's a bit of a one trick pony for many teachers though. My older DD (that I mentioned above, now in third grade) was ALWAYS on yellow and red in first grade. ALWAYS. And the teacher had no idea what to do with her. And it was for things like talking out of turn, getting emotional in class, etc. And it's not like she did not care. She was in TEARS every day because she did not want to be on red, but could not control herself. But the teacher (her second year teaching) really didn't know what to do with her when the red card system didn't work and honestly there was nothing to do. She was an impulsive 6 year old. She's now 8 and does much better, but only time helped her. Eventually the teacher just stopped using the system with her because it clearly didn't work and only made her more upset.

I agree -- in the above situation it sounds like the teacher was not responsive. You say eventually the teacher stopped using the system with her -- that's the correct move -- it wasn't working for your child, and a good teacher shoudl realize that quickly and keep trying something that does work.

So I'm offering this suggestion to any parents who might be in a similar situation, possibly with a teacher who is inexperienced or just not sensitive -- to bring up with the teachers and principal if necessary -- ANY time a system is being used where a child gets on "red" or has some other punishment (timeout, sitting in the corner, dunce cap, stand at the blackboard with your nose in a circle -- like in the old days!) whatever the punishment is -- if it is happening on a frequent basis, then that is a sign that the punishment or system is not effective. "Discipline" means "to learn" and the teacher, the principal and the parent need to work together to figure out what the problem is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Any child who perpetually gets on "red" -- more than once or twice a week in the first few weeks -- should be moved to a more individual behavior management system and have other interventions put into place.

The issue I've seen is that it's a bit of a one trick pony for many teachers though. My older DD (that I mentioned above, now in third grade) was ALWAYS on yellow and red in first grade. ALWAYS. And the teacher had no idea what to do with her. And it was for things like talking out of turn, getting emotional in class, etc. And it's not like she did not care. She was in TEARS every day because she did not want to be on red, but could not control herself. But the teacher (her second year teaching) really didn't know what to do with her when the red card system didn't work and honestly there was nothing to do. She was an impulsive 6 year old. She's now 8 and does much better, but only time helped her. Eventually the teacher just stopped using the system with her because it clearly didn't work and only made her more upset.

I'm the PP that never went to recess in third grade. I feel for your daughter, as this was the exact same boat I was in. I'm glad that at least the teacher realized it wasn't working, but unfortunately she didn't have any other solutions. Your daughter was at a younger age, where parents are more often involved with teachers, so I'm glad the teacher involved you or at least that your daughter had the courage to involve you. (Was it the teacher that informed you of her constant yellow/red, or was it your daughter?).

What finally helped me get on track was that I became best friends with a goodie-two-shoes and would try my hardest to model my behavior after her. We are still close friends and often joke that I would have ended up as a juvenile delinquent if it weren't for her, and she would have been a complete bore if it weren't for me. But now I'm married to another ADD case and fear that our children will face the same issues that we did. Thankfully today schools are much better equipped to deal with learning and behavioral difficulties. However, I will certainly have to talk with any teacher that my DC may have that uses this system, if my child exhibits the same issues that I had as a child.

The system does seem to work for some, although I don't think taking away recess should EVER be involved (for the sake of the hyperactive students, and the health and welfare of our country's youth in general). The problem is that when the system doesn't work, it really doesn't work. There were two of us that stayed in from recess every single day. Coincidentally, we ended up dating in high school briefly before he sadly turned to drugs and his delinquency never resolved. There were also a couple of others that were repeat offenders as well, and the system never corrected or curbed our behavior. Again, sorry for another trip down memory lane. I just hope that my sharing helps people to see how badly the system can fail those students that really need help and the danger of not involving parents. For those of you with older children (third grade and above), it is possible that your children's teachers implement something similar to what I experienced but you are not aware of it. Hope my story helps.

[Anonymous]

Was it the teacher that informed you of her constant yellow/red, or was it your daughter?

It was my daughter. But only after we had a playdate and her friend was telling me. I then had a long talk with her about how she could tell me anything about school and she would not get in trouble at home for anything that she told me about. That was a lesson learned for me, that I needed to back off on getting on her at home for things that happen at school. It was more important to keep those lines of communication open.

PP I am sorry you had such a hard time. School can be such a wretched place for kids who are outside the mold. And while things may be better now, I still don't think it's a nurturing place for kids who outside the norm or behavior and expectations. There are lot of kids who are quirky, but are not "diagnosable" and the schools really have very little to offer to those kids in terms of accommodations.

[Anonymous]

My child is in FCPA. Her school uses the card system. The principal says her school never takes away recess but they will make kids run/walk laps instead of play. I'm ok with that. I'm also ok with a little public "embarassment." For the most part, it's the child's fault that he/she is on yellow/red. (I understand that there are exceptions, but I think the parents could work with the teachers to find other solutions for those children). Our actions have consequences and children need to learn that. If we didn't coddle them so much, we might have a kinder society.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not mean and not a corporal punishment advocate. I am just very straighforward with my kids. I don't coddle them or allow them to make excuses. I hope it helps them to be responsible adults who make a psotive contribution to their community.

[Anonymous]

Sorry -- PP here. That should be FCPS not FCPA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A variation on the 'traffic light" version is the "Name on the Board with an Unhappy Face next to it." Public shaming works but it is also harmful to young children, IMO. Teachers who use these types of systems generally have larger class sizes to manage and thus believe that the negative discipline techniques are justified by their need to be able to maximize teaching time for all the students. Basically, teachers with large class sizes are placed in a pretty difficult situation. For parents that can afford to go private ... much of the problem is thus addressed by smaller class sizes plus more use of positive discipline. But a good question to ask during tours ... and watch out for parochial schools who seem to believe that negative discipline is actually helpful to molding good students.

This has not been my experience. I attended parochial schools, and my daughter is in one now.

[Anonymous]

There is way too much enabling these days by parents.

I think the card system is a great idea.

Self-esteem issues stem from home, not from school. Any balanced kid is not going to need therapy in the future b/c of some behavior card s/he received in elementary school.

[Anonymous]

Any balanced kid is not going to need therapy in the future b/c of some behavior card s/he received in elementary school.

I didn't say she needed therapy because of it. I said it didn't actually help her behave at school, which is what I thought was the goal? If the means does not achieve the goal, how much sense does it make to continue to use it? The card system works for some some kids but is miserable for others. In any case, it is not NECESSARY because not all teachers feel a need to use them. I can assure you me kid is not coddled. We work with her on her behavior and her issues EVERY day. But that does not mean that she always behaves. The reason I am not overly worried long term is because she is extremely similar to me at the same age. And yet, despite that, I managed to become a productive, well adjusted adult. I just had to grow up, gain maturity and settle down.

The lack of compassion that some people have for highly sensitive children is astounding to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A variation on the 'traffic light" version is the "Name on the Board with an Unhappy Face next to it." Public shaming works but it is also harmful to young children, IMO. Teachers who use these types of systems generally have larger class sizes to manage and thus believe that the negative discipline techniques are justified by their need to be able to maximize teaching time for all the students. Basically, teachers with large class sizes are placed in a pretty difficult situation. For parents that can afford to go private ... much of the problem is thus addressed by smaller class sizes plus more use of positive discipline. But a good question to ask during tours ... and watch out for parochial schools who seem to believe that negative discipline is actually helpful to molding good students.

This has not been my experience. I attended parochial schools, and my daughter is in one now.

I'm not either of the PPs but my experience with parochial schools (K-12) was as stated in the earlier post. Very Harsh. Lots of humiliation. . . so many stories that make me cringe even to this day (and none of it was directed to me.) Sisters (i.e. nuns) that had the "reject table" (yes, that is actually what she called it), making a boy (a nervous, stuttering boy by nature) who passed gas open the windows and then go to the bathroom, reading notes with very embarrassing things on them to the whole class. . . . those are just a few examples.

Having said that, I hope that since my time (I was a '91 high school grad) things have changed a great deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
The lack of compassion that some people have for highly sensitive children is astounding to me.

I just wanted to tell you, as the teacher who said she used this system -- absolutely it should be used with sensitivity towards the emotional needs and reactions of individual children.

[Anonymous]

Ugghh... I am a former teacher and I cannot stand this type of system. I also despise giving tokens or the like to kids who behave "well."

Kids talk and they know what's going on, even in Kindergarten. Systems like the red light system and cards are so public. Do you want your child being labeled as a behavior problem by his/her classmates?

My kids are at a DC private that follows The Responsive Classroom. There are rules and logical consequences. Together as a class, the rules are made there are consequences for breaking those rules and the consequences fit. If a child cannot use markers properly, they should lose the privilege of using those markers, not recess. Losing recess in general gives me the heebie jeebies. Kids get so little chance to work off their energy,e etc. that taking it away will only cause more behavior issues.

I also used the Responsive Classroom methods when I was a teacher and it was a must when we were choosing a school for our children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ugghh... I am a former teacher and I cannot stand this type of system. I also despise giving tokens or the like to kids who behave "well."

Kids talk and they know what's going on, even in Kindergarten. Systems like the red light system and cards are so public. Do you want your child being labeled as a behavior problem by his/her classmates?

My kids are at a DC private that follows The Responsive Classroom. There are rules and logical consequences. Together as a class, the rules are made there are consequences for breaking those rules and the consequences fit. If a child cannot use markers properly, they should lose the privilege of using those markers, not recess. Losing recess in general gives me the heebie jeebies. Kids get so little chance to work off their energy,e etc. that taking it away will only cause more behavior issues.

I also used the Responsive Classroom methods when I was a teacher and it was a must when we were choosing a school for our children.

I dunno -- I really wouldn't want every child in the classroom to know my kid was not able to use markers. That seems so public and humiliating!

[Anonymous]

But it makes much more sense than taking away recess. If my 4 yr old son doesn't use crayons/markers the way he is supposed to (coloring on paper instead of the table or his hands, etc) then I take them away. He can only use them when I am there watching him. Makes total sense to me!

[Anonymous]

Sure, you do that at home! But at school -- it seems so public, and shaming, to take away his markers. THen all the kids will know that he wasn't able to use markers correctly.

Isn't there a less public responsive classroom way to modify the child's behavior, that wouldn't treat him so publicly in front of his peers? He might get a reputation for being the class "goof-off" who can't even be trusted with markers.