If your child has ADHD, 504 plan or IEP?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son who has ADHD had an IEP in ES, a 504 in MS and now an IEP in HS. Really it isn’t the diagnosis that matters. It’s the needs. If he can be successful with accommodations then a 504 plan is what’s needed. If he needs services plus accommodations then it’s an IEP that he needs.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

My understanding that 504 only some minor accommodations (notes, extra time, priority siting etc.) I would say in real life - not much support.
IEP means modification of the program to some extend.

My child had nothing in ES, first 504 in MS, then IEP. We needed advocate from the beginning.
IEP does not mean services outside of regular classroom.
If child needs some aids i.e. program modification to some extent (like special notes with answers before unit test to focus their attention, special equipment to be able to take notes at home/class etc., extra time for assignments/projects) he/she needs IEP.
Out IEP is quite extensive, but absolutely necessary. Some things followed some are not, but I think it is critical in HS for kids with real ADHD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding that 504 only some minor accommodations (notes, extra time, priority siting etc.) I would say in real life - not much support.
IEP means modification of the program to some extend.

My child had nothing in ES, first 504 in MS, then IEP. We needed advocate from the beginning.
IEP does not mean services outside of regular classroom.
If child needs some aids i.e. program modification to some extent (like special notes with answers before unit test to focus their attention, special equipment to be able to take notes at home/class etc., extra time for assignments/projects) he/she needs IEP.
Out IEP is quite extensive, but absolutely necessary. Some things followed some are not, but I think it is critical in HS for kids with real ADHD.

Your understanding is NOT correct. The difference between 504 and and IEP is not the difference between "minor" and "modification". You can need only a 504 plan and need major, major accommodations. For example, when my DC was recovering from a concussion, DC could only attend school part time, had to skip or be excused from massive amounts of work and get very lengthy extensions on work. At one point DC was more than 3 months behind in one class. DC's 504 plan was not "minor". DC needed tests to be modified. DC could not write lengthy essays, but could answer questions orally or write short answers. However, DC did NOT need any change to instruction. DC was still perfectly capable of absorbing the instruction provided. The exact same instruction was provided to DC, but sometimes DC had to take it in a different format -- instead of sitting in a classroom, DC got class notes (every day in every class for months and months). In this sense, DC's accommodations were major and required modification, but DC still needed only a 504 plan.

By contrast, a child with an IEP needs "special instruction," i.e. not the same general instruction delivered to general education students. An example would be a dyslexic child, who needs a different kind of reading instruction to become a special reader (explicit sound/symbol instruction, with repetition and multi sensory approach that is more repetitive and explicit than the general education reading instruction). That dyslexic child may need no accommodations at all or he/she may need a lot of accommodations. Accommodations are ways in which the instruction, while containing the same substance, may be provided in different formats. Accommodations come in different categories -- presentation, scheduling, timing, etc. and may be applied to instructional and/or assessment environments.

It's really important to understand the legal distinctions for a 504 and IEP.

For 504: student must have 1) a physical or mental impairment which 2) substantially limits a major life activity. Notice that there is no requirement to prove "adverse impact on education" nor is there any requirement that a student have bad grades or be below grade level. My straight A student with a chronic illness that impacts sleep patterns, attention and energy level is entitled to a 504 plan, and DC doesn't have to wait until grades are slipping or failing in order to be entitled to accommodations that address the illness.

For an IEP: student must have 1) a disorder (basically the same test as #1 under 504) 2) which adversely impacts education and 3) requires special instruction. Notice that a student does not have to have failing grades. A student may exhibit a pattern of strengths and weaknesses that may result in adequate or even good grades and yet still show a clear need for specialized instruction in some areas. This is often true for high functioning kids with learning disabilities like dyslexia and dysgraphia, especially in the early elementary years when the demands for reading and writing are still low and they are able to compensate by other means.

Again the difference is not minor v. major or modified v. unmodified.

Also the other examples you cite (special notes with answers before unit test to focus their attention, special equipment to be able to take notes at home/class etc., extra time for assignments/projects) do not necessarily equate to an IEP. These can all be provided as part of a 504 plan.

And finally, what exactly is "real ADHD" ? And who are you to judge whether anyone's ADHD is real or not? My ADHD kid is in a magnet program. Does that mean DC's ADHD is not "real". Are "real ADHD" kids the ones who are floundering? getting bad grades? Is it impossible that the high achieving kid that is getting good grades also has "real ADHD" and is working extra-hard behind the scenes to maintain it all? I hope you can see that your characterization of "real ADHD" just perpetuates stereotypes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding that 504 only some minor accommodations (notes, extra time, priority siting etc.) I would say in real life - not much support.
IEP means modification of the program to some extend.

My child had nothing in ES, first 504 in MS, then IEP. We needed advocate from the beginning.
IEP does not mean services outside of regular classroom.
If child needs some aids i.e. program modification to some extent (like special notes with answers before unit test to focus their attention, special equipment to be able to take notes at home/class etc., extra time for assignments/projects) he/she needs IEP.
Out IEP is quite extensive, but absolutely necessary. Some things followed some are not, but I think it is critical in HS for kids with real ADHD.

Your understanding is NOT correct. The difference between 504 and and IEP is not the difference between "minor" and "modification". You can need only a 504 plan and need major, major accommodations. For example, when my DC was recovering from a concussion, DC could only attend school part time, had to skip or be excused from massive amounts of work and get very lengthy extensions on work. At one point DC was more than 3 months behind in one class. DC's 504 plan was not "minor". DC needed tests to be modified. DC could not write lengthy essays, but could answer questions orally or write short answers. However, DC did NOT need any change to instruction. DC was still perfectly capable of absorbing the instruction provided. The exact same instruction was provided to DC, but sometimes DC had to take it in a different format -- instead of sitting in a classroom, DC got class notes (every day in every class for months and months). In this sense, DC's accommodations were major and required modification, but DC still needed only a 504 plan.

By contrast, a child with an IEP needs "special instruction," i.e. not the same general instruction delivered to general education students. An example would be a dyslexic child, who needs a different kind of reading instruction to become a special reader (explicit sound/symbol instruction, with repetition and multi sensory approach that is more repetitive and explicit than the general education reading instruction). That dyslexic child may need no accommodations at all or he/she may need a lot of accommodations. Accommodations are ways in which the instruction, while containing the same substance, may be provided in different formats. Accommodations come in different categories -- presentation, scheduling, timing, etc. and may be applied to instructional and/or assessment environments.

It's really important to understand the legal distinctions for a 504 and IEP.

For 504: student must have 1) a physical or mental impairment which 2) substantially limits a major life activity. Notice that there is no requirement to prove "adverse impact on education" nor is there any requirement that a student have bad grades or be below grade level. My straight A student with a chronic illness that impacts sleep patterns, attention and energy level is entitled to a 504 plan, and DC doesn't have to wait until grades are slipping or failing in order to be entitled to accommodations that address the illness.

For an IEP: student must have 1) a disorder (basically the same test as #1 under 504) 2) which adversely impacts education and 3) requires special instruction. Notice that a student does not have to have failing grades. A student may exhibit a pattern of strengths and weaknesses that may result in adequate or even good grades and yet still show a clear need for specialized instruction in some areas. This is often true for high functioning kids with learning disabilities like dyslexia and dysgraphia, especially in the early elementary years when the demands for reading and writing are still low and they are able to compensate by other means.

Again the difference is not minor v. major or modified v. unmodified.

Also the other examples you cite (special notes with answers before unit test to focus their attention, special equipment to be able to take notes at home/class etc., extra time for assignments/projects) do not necessarily equate to an IEP. These can all be provided as part of a 504 plan.

And finally, what exactly is "real ADHD" ? And who are you to judge whether anyone's ADHD is real or not? My ADHD kid is in a magnet program. Does that mean DC's ADHD is not "real". Are "real ADHD" kids the ones who are floundering? getting bad grades? Is it impossible that the high achieving kid that is getting good grades also has "real ADHD" and is working extra-hard behind the scenes to maintain it all? I hope you can see that your characterization of "real ADHD" just perpetuates stereotypes.

First of all you do not have to be aggressive to prove your point. Second my child is also in magnet program . I actually checked with professionals and kid may have IEP and be 100% in regular (or magnet classes.) I know several magnet kids in this situation. No special education/resources or supported classes. In fact my child does much worth in supported class vs. regular class (get much less attention and end up with less quality work.)
Please define special instruction. According to all people that I spoke, the definition more of modified (to some extent) program. If child needs sample of writing/project is it special instructions to you? If child needs chapter questions for reading prior to reading is it special instructions or accommodations to you?
Actually when we asked for certain "accommodations" we were told that is possible only with IEP. So we had to convert 504 to IEP.
Grades actually do not matter, but schools will try to say that if child gets As that he/she is good to go without IEP. In reality it is BS, since if child has slow processing and low working memory he/she has to work twice as hard as rest of the kids, but may be able to some extent to compensate (in case of 2e kids.) That is what professional psychologists determine. They run test and see what is going on. In our case we had two separate independent psychologists who run different tests but both agree that there are issues.
What I tried to to say by real ADHD is that kids who have problems cannot study successfully in HS without accommodations. In ES - yes possible, in MS - may be, if school is not demanding. In HS - no way, if they are really trying to learn and not just trying to attend and leave.
Too much is going on, demand is too high; there is no way to "compensate."

[Anonymous]

504. She didn't need extensive accommodations, and was against them herself(teen). Giving her more time to do exams and tasks sounded like punishment to her. High verbal IQ, so it would be just for math, in her case really. If a child is younger, then IEP might be needed.