Help me understand the difference between Montessori and play-based preschool

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

This was our experience at Aiden Montessori, yes. Our child was corrected by the teacher and also by other kids, often older due to the mixed agree classes. He was also not allowed to use or touch a toy unless he had first been instructed in its proper use. It was not a good fit for us.

This was our experience as well, with a different school. We participated in a one-day-a-week parent-toddler program for under 2s. Although I liked all the toys, I was turned off by the way the teacher constantly corrected DD. For example, she was not allowed to use the ball out of the shape sorter for anything other than putting it back in the hole. There were rules about everything. It even made me feel anxious. One (older) child was immediately shushed when he started singing the ABC song. Apparently, it's a big no-no in Montessori. I know that it probably depends on a particular school. But this was not a good fit for DD.

[Anonymous]

In a play-based preschool the teacher will observe with a smile as the young children take the puzzle boards from the puzzle shelf, and take them over to the kitchen set up and place them in the oven. The puzzle board becomes a cookie sheet and the puzzle pieces become cookies. A blanket in pulled out, and friends are invited to a picnic to enjoy the cookies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So why do people like Montessori? It sounds awful...

In our experience, kids learn way more in a montessori classroom. Not all parents want this - some prefer that they play just be kids while they're young and wait to focus on academics until the later years. It's also a much calmer space, if that makes sense. Once again, not all parents want this. They also have much higher quality educational materials - the minimum set of material to be considered a 'true' montessori classroom is fairly extensive (and expensive!).

They also learn to wait for their turn with stations/materials since there's often just one of each thing in a classroom and there's a focus on practical life skills (usually there's just a one-person painting station set up, for example, with a smock that they're expected to use, and they get their own water from the sink and clean their own brushes afterwards, etc).

If those things don't stand out to you as being positive, then montessori probably isn't for you. I can honestly say that I have zero interest in a "play-based preschool", so maybe if you're on the fence then you have your answer.

I've been to many play based centers that are cxlm as well. This really depends on the teachers, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My opinion is kids should play and socialize. The least amount of academics the better. And Montessori is extremely academic and tends to draw a certain type of parent to it. One that is competitive about early academics.

My Montessori son plays and socializes every day. The concepts aren't mutually exclusive. Child development shows that at 3 and 4, kids prefer to engage with 1 or 2 other kids at a time, so the activities in the preschools are set for 1-3 kids to work on together.

His "work" is practicing zippers and buttons, cutting and coloring, and serving himself/cleaning up. Life skills. Sure, he knows numbers and letters, but that's hardly the focus. The big picture is self sufficiency.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

This was our experience at Aiden Montessori, yes. Our child was corrected by the teacher and also by other kids, often older due to the mixed agree classes. He was also not allowed to use or touch a toy unless he had first been instructed in its proper use. It was not a good fit for us.

This was our experience as well, with a different school. We participated in a one-day-a-week parent-toddler program for under 2s. Although I liked all the toys, I was turned off by the way the teacher constantly corrected DD. For example, she was not allowed to use the ball out of the shape sorter for anything other than putting it back in the hole. There were rules about everything. It even made me feel anxious. One (older) child was immediately shushed when he started singing the ABC song. Apparently, it's a big no-no in Montessori. I know that it probably depends on a particular school. But this was not a good fit for DD.

Montessori methods are designed for 3+. The fact that anyone is trying to apply them to a 1 year old is a big red flag to me. I'd ignore anything said by someone who thinks 1 year olds should follow a methodology designed for 3-6.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a play-based preschool the teacher will observe with a smile as the young children take the puzzle boards from the puzzle shelf, and take them over to the kitchen set up and place them in the oven. The puzzle board becomes a cookie sheet and the puzzle pieces become cookies. A blanket in pulled out, and friends are invited to a picnic to enjoy the cookies.

Yup. Which is what my child experiences for 21 hours a day. For 3 hours, he gets something different.

[Anonymous]

The Montessori methods were designed for mentally handicapped children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

This was our experience at Aiden Montessori, yes. Our child was corrected by the teacher and also by other kids, often older due to the mixed agree classes. He was also not allowed to use or touch a toy unless he had first been instructed in its proper use. It was not a good fit for us.

This was our experience as well, with a different school. We participated in a one-day-a-week parent-toddler program for under 2s. Although I liked all the toys, I was turned off by the way the teacher constantly corrected DD. For example, she was not allowed to use the ball out of the shape sorter for anything other than putting it back in the hole. There were rules about everything. It even made me feel anxious. One (older) child was immediately shushed when he started singing the ABC song. Apparently, it's a big no-no in Montessori. I know that it probably depends on a particular school. But this was not a good fit for DD.

Montessori methods are designed for 3+. The fact that anyone is trying to apply them to a 1 year old is a big red flag to me. I'd ignore anything said by someone who thinks 1 year olds should follow a methodology designed for 3-6.

PP here. This makes much more sense. Most kids in the parent-toddler class were not verbal and probably only had limited receptive language. So, it felt like the parents had to be constantly on top of their children, correcting them to comply with the teacher's rule. I can see that a 3 year old should be able to follow directions much better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The actual Montessori part is not ‘guided pkay’. It’s work. That is literally what it is called.

My opinion is kids should play and socialize. The least amount of academics the better. And Montessori is extremely academic and tends to draw a certain type of parent to it. One that is competitive about early academics.

I'm guessing you already incorporate academics when you play and model with your child at home. What you do at home is guided play. While you play you are saying, "I wonder what would happen if we switched that triangle for a rectangle." Translated into a large group setting though, it is hard to replicate that level of guided play, and research is again showing that many preschools in the USA use free play much better than guided play, but also that children could have better experiences. Montessori is absolutely guided play in fact many researchers who are looking at guided play refer to the Montessori curriculum in their papers.

"New curricula might also build on the success of existing programs that implement aspects of the guided play approach, such as Montessori (Lillard, 2013)."
http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2427&context=psychology

Many, many studies show that only quality (meaning guide play) preschools help children. I know it is really popular to think that kids should just "play" but we are learning more about young children's development and they need more than just free play. I used to think the same! I just say this to challenge your thinking a bit!

[Anonymous]

There are good and bad Montessori schools, just like there are good and bad play-based schools.

When testing into a Montessori school (most private schools require an observation visit, which is really a test of watching how your kid does in the classroom, the teachers look for a child's ability to concentrate on a task. For a 3 year old, this means being able to watch the lesson given and try to repeat the action, then be able to do it themselves. Each task has some future purpose, whether it's hand/eye coordination or working on grip for future hand writing.

For our crazy active son, we wanted to foster this ability to concentrate and be more self-sufficient. We also really like the mixed age classrooms because the older kids benefit from knowing a lesson well enough to teach a younger child and younger kids sometimes listen/work better with another child. In addition, for the long-term, Montessori kids are not expected to ever sit behind a desk and listen to a teacher in the front of the classroom (grade school). They're much more active in being able to move about the classroom and choose their own activities based on the individualized weekly plan (the teachers go over what they should be doing and remind them to finish their list).

Our kid is not going to get these things from a play-based environment and potentially be labeled as a "rambunctious child." However, our 4 year old son loves math and reading, so he can already do simple math (addition/subtraction) as well as read toddler books, which has worked really well because that's what he's interested in. If anything, I would say he's behind in some life skills (whined about putting on his own socks and shoes for a looooong time compared to his 2 year old sibling) and social skills (oblivious of social cues such as when it is appropriate to interrupt or talk). However, I don't see these things as outside the curve or unusual, but partially his personality emerging (definitely a future nerdy kid).

If you're on the fence, go ahead and tour more schools to figure out the good vs bad. But think hard about your child's personality and what learning style would work well for them. Some kids don't do well in Montessori and some kids don't do well in a play-based environment. There is no one-size fits all.

[Anonymous]

I've had two kids in Montessori and never observed any of the big issues people here complain about. It's a very loving environment. There is plenty of time for free play at home, during the weekends etc and I am totally fine with more structured demands during the work time. My kids were proud of their work and love(d) going there. I also like mixed-age groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a Montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

In my experience touring a local Montessori - yes. My 2-year-old took down a set of blocks and began stacking them, and the teacher quickly swooped in and corrected her, saying that the blocks were only for laying out in a specific pattern. Same thing with different instruments on a shelf - 2 YO attempted to ring one of the lined-up chimes with a xylophone mallet and the teacher removed it from her hand. YMMV, but this was a dealbreaker for me - we're sticking with play-based all the way. I'm sure some Montessori schools are more or less strict, but I didn't like the rigidity at all, especially for such young children.

Another quirk: "true" Montessori is mixed age classes of 3-5 year olds (3-year learning cycle). A friend of mine in CA felt that in practice, this meant the older kids in her child's program completely steamrolled the younger ones, "helping" them by drawing over their artwork, writing her child's name for her (and spelling it wrong), etc. I think it would take a truly skilled teacher (and an equal mix of 3s, 4s, and 5s in the class) to make this work - but generally in this area, the classes skew either young or old.

In my experience with a kid actually IN a Montessori program, no. There are some instructional materials — NOT toys — which are designed to teach math and language. It is preschool. But there are also toys (example: legos, farm animals, balls, whatever) and if a kid at my school is playing with the legos and pretending they’re rainbow unicorns or whatever the teacher doesn’t intervene. This PP probably saw a kid misusing one of the sensorial block kits, which are for math instruction.

Like other posters noted, Montessori programs are scheduled with chunks of work time and chunks of play time, and for 3-5 year olds work time is to do the educational stuff but play time is for play, same as any other daycare.

As for the steamrolling, it certainly could happen but in practice generally the older kids have their older kid buddies and the younger kids have their younger kid buddies. Older kids show younger kids how to do ‘life skills’ stuff, like washing dishes, but aren’t involved in most of the work period instruction.

I don’t know anything about play based in practice so can’t comment on that.

PP here. Not sure why it should matter what the blocks are for? They're blocks, she's 2, and the teacher told her she was 'doing it wrong'. This particular school was quite formal/austere in terms of Montessori approach - they did not have many, if any, toys beyond the 'work'; the schedule for an 8:30-3 day for 3 YOs was breakfast, 3 hours of work, 30 minutes outside, lunch, 2 hours of nap. Once a week they had music.

I'm familiar with the research out of UVA's Curry School of Education saying that Montessori provides a significant school-readiness advantage for underprivileged preschoolers over play-based preschool. However, I also know that our family consciously emphasizes early academic concepts (counting, basic math, letter recognition, fine and gross motor, etc.) for our child at home in a way that other parents may not have the time or resources to do - so for us, preschool is as much (or more) about social development as it is about school readiness. I'm not making a judgement call on the Montessori philosophy one way or another - this thread illustrates the broad range of implementation strategies out there. But OP asked if children are corrected in the classroom, and in a true Montessori, they are.

[Anonymous]

My son is at LePort montessori and it's great. People tend to bash montessori here for no reason.

IMO they do not correct kids on how to play with certain objects. They encourage kids to continue working on things they are interested..

in contrast at Kindercare, the kids would be running around or forced to do a group activity together.

[Anonymous]

My DD (now in college) went to a Montessori preschool at age 3 after an in-home daycare center for two years. To be honest, she went there because it was the closest place with an opening and cost less than the other available options.

Initially, I was put off by 3-year-olds doing "work." It was neat and orderly, but here was no kid artwork on the walls or much color. DD made the transition really well, so I put my concerns aside. She liked it and made friends who were her age and had her own little group that aged with her in the 3-5 classroom.

She was basically on pace with her peers when she started K in public school, reading some very, very simple books. One issue (which may be more the transition to K-5 school) was that the self-directed work at Montessori didn't translate well to K, where kids had to sit still much longer and couldn't choose what they wanted to do.

And what does DD remember from all this? One of the teachers falling off a chair and hurting her foot!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hmmm... Thanks for that comment, but I still can't really see how this plays out in real life. So, at a Montessori school, if a kid is playing with (working on?) a puzzle, and decides to pretend that the pieces are dinosaurs, are they corrected?

In my experience touring a local Montessori - yes. My 2-year-old took down a set of blocks and began stacking them, and the teacher quickly swooped in and corrected her, saying that the blocks were only for laying out in a specific pattern. Same thing with different instruments on a shelf - 2 YO attempted to ring one of the lined-up chimes with a xylophone mallet and the teacher removed it from her hand. YMMV, but this was a dealbreaker for me - we're sticking with play-based all the way. I'm sure some Montessori schools are more or less strict, but I didn't like the rigidity at all, especially for such young children.

Another quirk: "true" Montessori is mixed age classes of 3-5 year olds (3-year learning cycle). A friend of mine in CA felt that in practice, this meant the older kids in her child's program completely steamrolled the younger ones, "helping" them by drawing over their artwork, writing her child's name for her (and spelling it wrong), etc. I think it would take a truly skilled teacher (and an equal mix of 3s, 4s, and 5s in the class) to make this work - but generally in this area, the classes skew either young or old.

In my experience with a kid actually IN a Montessori program, no. There are some instructional materials — NOT toys — which are designed to teach math and language. It is preschool. But there are also toys (example: legos, farm animals, balls, whatever) and if a kid at my school is playing with the legos and pretending they’re rainbow unicorns or whatever the teacher doesn’t intervene. This PP probably saw a kid misusing one of the sensorial block kits, which are for math instruction.

Like other posters noted, Montessori programs are scheduled with chunks of work time and chunks of play time, and for 3-5 year olds work time is to do the educational stuff but play time is for play, same as any other daycare.

As for the steamrolling, it certainly could happen but in practice generally the older kids have their older kid buddies and the younger kids have their younger kid buddies. Older kids show younger kids how to do ‘life skills’ stuff, like washing dishes, but aren’t involved in most of the work period instruction.

I don’t know anything about play based in practice so can’t comment on that.

PP here. Not sure why it should matter what the blocks are for? They're blocks, she's 2, and the teacher told her she was 'doing it wrong'. This particular school was quite formal/austere in terms of Montessori approach - they did not have many, if any, toys beyond the 'work'; the schedule for an 8:30-3 day for 3 YOs was breakfast, 3 hours of work, 30 minutes outside, lunch, 2 hours of nap. Once a week they had music.

I'm familiar with the research out of UVA's Curry School of Education saying that Montessori provides a significant school-readiness advantage for underprivileged preschoolers over play-based preschool. However, I also know that our family consciously emphasizes early academic concepts (counting, basic math, letter recognition, fine and gross motor, etc.) for our child at home in a way that other parents may not have the time or resources to do - so for us, preschool is as much (or more) about social development as it is about school readiness. I'm not making a judgement call on the Montessori philosophy one way or another - this thread illustrates the broad range of implementation strategies out there. But OP asked if children are corrected in the classroom, and in a true Montessori, they are.

The blocks are sized from tiny (like .5in x .5in) to big (12in x 12in). The teacher was probably trying to teach the child about size and stacking them in order from big (bottom) to small (top). Saying the child was "doing it wrong" would be inappropriate. However, correcting the child by asking leading things like "Is that block bigger or smaller? Remember that the bigger ones go on first." is totally appropriate. This fosters both concentration at the task and particular lesson. If the child is never corrected (in the right way), then they never learn the point of the pink tower.