5 yr old terribly shy kid going to K and has anxiety issues - what to ask for in IEP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think you are going to lose the IEP and unless you are leaving a lot of stuff out it sounds like that's a fair outcome. There are very few resources out there for kids who actually need them. It sounds like your child does not. I'm glad the intervention was able to help your DD when she needed it.

It varies by school. Some are quick to pull IEP's and others aren't. Ours doesn't follow the IEP nor puts in what we need but they refuse to terminate the IEP too (it doesn't make sense - either give the supports or get rid of it as what you are doing isn't helping). Hopefully OP can keep it but it may be so minimal its not helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Oh geez everyone. Does anyone have actual advice for the OP's question?

OP, I'm inferring that at the moment, your daughter has been deemed eligible for the IEP for K, and eligibility is not in question, is that correct?

And as you've described it, the issues that may interfere with her learning are her social skills - her ability to work with other children, communicate with the teacher, and demonstrate her knowledge?

So the issue is what kind of accommodations your daughter needs to help her in this.

Since you've mentioned that ASD is on the table, I think the best approach is to ask for accommodations that are designed to assist kids with ASD in their social skills needed for learning in K. Off the top of my head, I'd say:

- pull-outs 1x/week for express social skills instruction with the social worker; plus "lunch bunch" meetings to work on social skills
- push-in hours with the special ed teacher during classroom times when more interaction is expected (e.g., if they have reading groups where they are supposed to read in teams; or other times where they are expected to interact and you don't think she'll be able to)
- training for the gen ed teacher on how to interact with her to get her verbal participation in class
- accommodations in the class that help her relieve her anxiety (quiet spot? sitting in front? not sure here.)

Since K is so very different from preschool these days, you'll also have to be prepared to monitor how she's doing, and convene a meeting with the IEP team if things don't work.

That's not the style here. My advice is to get a full evaluation, including speech but those don't sound fully like left over speech issues and spend the money until K. and get private services - speech or therapy. Once you hit low average in an area, you loose speech at school in that area but it doesn't mean child is fully where they should be.

Aren't there NIH studies someone has talked about on here that were helpful to them? I know I looked and could not find much speech related but I know they exist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh geez everyone. Does anyone have actual advice for the OP's question?

OP, I'm inferring that at the moment, your daughter has been deemed eligible for the IEP for K, and eligibility is not in question, is that correct?

And as you've described it, the issues that may interfere with her learning are her social skills - her ability to work with other children, communicate with the teacher, and demonstrate her knowledge?

So the issue is what kind of accommodations your daughter needs to help her in this.

Since you've mentioned that ASD is on the table, I think the best approach is to ask for accommodations that are designed to assist kids with ASD in their social skills needed for learning in K. Off the top of my head, I'd say:

- pull-outs 1x/week for express social skills instruction with the social worker; plus "lunch bunch" meetings to work on social skills
- push-in hours with the special ed teacher during classroom times when more interaction is expected (e.g., if they have reading groups where they are supposed to read in teams; or other times where they are expected to interact and you don't think she'll be able to)
- training for the gen ed teacher on how to interact with her to get her verbal participation in class
- accommodations in the class that help her relieve her anxiety (quiet spot? sitting in front? not sure here.)

Since K is so very different from preschool these days, you'll also have to be prepared to monitor how she's doing, and convene a meeting with the IEP team if things don't work.

OP here. Thanks so much for your input as well as to others who gave me suggestions.

IEP meeting over. My DC barely qualified. We were told that the home school will evaluate progress and if deemed necessary DC may not have an IEP next year. They would like to see how DC progresses in mainstream classroom with so many kids. Accomodations include sitting in front, 1 hour with special ed teacher in class(which may be redacted if DC doesnt need it). No pullouts since its the social skills that are lacking and they want to focus on helping DC interact with others in a large group setting. DC does well with 4 or 5 kids.
I've been asked to speak with gen ed teacher regarding raising the hand, water breaks, bath room breaks.

I completely forgot about asking for lunch bunch..I will call and ask if they can include that.

Ok, so you already know the services more or less, but are still drafting the goals, is that right? And it looks like they might pull the IEP next year?

In that case, I think it is REALLY important to draft specific goals that will show whether or not she's able to learn in the classroom with that minimal level of support.

I would focus on things like "4 out of 5 times, is able to answer clearly verbally when called on in the whole class" and "4 out of 5 times is able to interact appropriately with peers in group learning activities."

I think you also want goals in there to demonstrate her basic ability to learn in the classroom setting -- that she progresses appropriately in reading & writing. Because if there are still residual language issues, you want to make sure that they are not interfering with her ability to learn.

I would go to the Common Core standards (or your state equivalent, or a state curriculum) and just match up the goals to some of those standards. For Kindergarten, the Common Core includes Speaking and Listening standards, subdivided in to Comprehension and Collaboration, and Presentation of Knowledge and Ideas:

Comprehension and Collaboration:
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.1

Participate in collaborative conversations with diverse partners about kindergarten topics and texts with peers and adults in small and larger groups.
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.1.A

Follow agreed-upon rules for discussions (e.g., listening to others and taking turns speaking about the topics and texts under discussion).
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.1.B

Continue a conversation through multiple exchanges.
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.2

Confirm understanding of a text read aloud or information presented orally or through other media by asking and answering questions about key details and requesting clarification if something is not understood.
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.3

Ask and answer questions in order to seek help, get information, or clarify something that is not understood.

Presentation of Knowledge and Ideas:
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.4

Describe familiar people, places, things, and events and, with prompting and support, provide additional detail.
CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.5

Add drawings or other visual displays to descriptions as desired to provide additional detail.

CCSS.ELA-LITERACY.SL.K.6
Speak audibly and express thoughts, feelings, and ideas clearly.

http://www.corestandards.org/ELA-Literacy/SL/1/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh geez everyone. Does anyone have actual advice for the OP's question?

OP, I'm inferring that at the moment, your daughter has been deemed eligible for the IEP for K, and eligibility is not in question, is that correct?

And as you've described it, the issues that may interfere with her learning are her social skills - her ability to work with other children, communicate with the teacher, and demonstrate her knowledge?

So the issue is what kind of accommodations your daughter needs to help her in this.

Since you've mentioned that ASD is on the table, I think the best approach is to ask for accommodations that are designed to assist kids with ASD in their social skills needed for learning in K. Off the top of my head, I'd say:

- pull-outs 1x/week for express social skills instruction with the social worker; plus "lunch bunch" meetings to work on social skills
- push-in hours with the special ed teacher during classroom times when more interaction is expected (e.g., if they have reading groups where they are supposed to read in teams; or other times where they are expected to interact and you don't think she'll be able to)
- training for the gen ed teacher on how to interact with her to get her verbal participation in class
- accommodations in the class that help her relieve her anxiety (quiet spot? sitting in front? not sure here.)

Since K is so very different from preschool these days, you'll also have to be prepared to monitor how she's doing, and convene a meeting with the IEP team if things don't work.

That's not the style here. My advice is to get a full evaluation, including speech but those don't sound fully like left over speech issues and spend the money until K. and get private services - speech or therapy. Once you hit low average in an area, you loose speech at school in that area but it doesn't mean child is fully where they should be.

Aren't there NIH studies someone has talked about on here that were helpful to them? I know I looked and could not find much speech related but I know they exist.

UMD had a shyness study. Not sure if it's still ongoing.

This sounds very much like my DS at this age (not with the language delay though) but I wish I had gotten better advice about aggressively treating the anxiety. My DS had selective mutism and severe social anxiety and everyone told us, for years, that he would just grow out of it. He did not just grow out of it and by the time we found more effective treatment providers, he was a resistant older child. If we had started when he was the age your child is, we would have gotten much farther.

[Anonymous]

@15:25. OP here. Thanks for all that info..very helpful.

@17:23 How are you handling your son's anxiety? Looks like my DC is headed that way. As of now, we do not have a formal diagnosis for ASD but eventually we would need an evaluation. My DC is able to understand things when given more attention (as in smaller group settings) and does quite well with academics. But behind in social skills. At 5 1/2 DC still expecting a teacher to ask what is wrong when something happens in class. If a child hits DC, doesn't tell teacher. Something that happened a week ago may bring on a melt down today etc. But when DC gets comfortable (which took 4 months in a new class setting) DC will talk to peers (peers have to initiate though). One advantage is DC will be one of the oldest in class when K comes around.

I had the initial draft of the IEP (the one sent by school) with me 2 days ago. We are now done with IEP meeting and I will receive the finalized one in mail soon.

I have to say the class teacher and the Pre-K coordinator were really instrumental in DC continuing to get the IEP for Fall. Of course, everything may change next year in March based on what the home school decides. But for now there is an IEP. I suppose we have time to get DC evaluated before then.

We do know that DC needs to be evaluated, but since we have been getting supports (which have helped DC come this far - we had started out with speech, OT) we are just waiting it out so there will be a more accurate diagnosis as DC gets older. For now we have the DD code. We were informed that when DC turns 8 there has to be a different code and DC cannot go with a DD code.

Thanks to all who have shared your experiences and provided suggestions and input.

[Anonymous]

OP, school diagnosis and private diagnosis are two different things. The reason to get a private diagnosis is to figure out exactly what is going on and to target services, especially private to your child's needs so they can have a better chance of resolving all this. I would not just rely on school OT/Speech. Our experience with school speech therapy is very different than private and private is very targeted and school is based on the lowest child in the group and a huge range of kids in the group in terms of speech ability (we have barely verbal, to moderate to highly).

For a speech, the public school said my child was fine with receptive and refused services when they tested low-average but it was clear he still needed help. They ended up lumping all the concerns into articulation and expressive but it made no sense given it was clear it was still a need. If your child is having trouble following directions (and it can still come at 6-7-8), you want to get a good speech evaluation as it may come up with something different than school (they can also use different tests) to see if receptive is still impacting (which can also impact social).

But, I would be more concerned about the anxiety as the last poster who suggested the shyness study said. It is separate from a language delay/disorder and is going to be a bigger struggle in K. when class sizes get larger and kids don't get help in the lunch room and other places that they may still need help. I would get a play therapist involved to help address it as a start. These things are much better treated as PP said when kids are young.

I'm not sure being the oldest in these situations is the best but everyone will have a different opinion. I know with our IEP/school setting they very much looked at age and based the expectations on the age. They cut my child more slack being a younger child vs. older. (but again this is school dependent).

You may also want to look at one of the speech/OT summer camps. They are very expensive but may be worth it to help catch up as they also work on social skills too from what I understand (National Speech, Basic Concepts)

You could also consider a small private if you can afford it to give your child more attention and support and either keep the IEP/services with the school system, go private or better, do both.