How to handle girl-drama, 2nd grade edition.

[Anonymous]

It seems to me that girls just care more about being included. My daughter is always sad when she finds out there was a birthday party that she was not invited to or a playdate going on that does not include her. My son could not care less and he is older. Perhaps other boys do care?

[Anonymous]

Please don’t label it in a gendered way. Some people are nice, some are polite, some are secure, others are not.

Help her navigate the range of people in this world. Don’t say, “the girls didn’t get mean until they were older in my day.”

It will only give her bad attitudes about other females, who will likely be amongst her biggest supporters over the years (if you don’t pass misogynist attitudes down to a new generation).

[Anonymous]

Girls are more concerned about social acceptance and that sort of thing—saying this aloud is not misogynist.

I hang out with my two boys a lot and they have never talked about feeling like they’re missing out or not included. Perhaps because we have a full schedule, the two are best friends, and they appreciate when they just have free time to themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Girls are more concerned about social acceptance and that sort of thing—saying this aloud is not misogynist.

I hang out with my two boys a lot and they have never talked about feeling like they’re missing out or not included. Perhaps because we have a full schedule, the two are best friends, and they appreciate when they just have free time to themselves.

My DS does, as do his friends.

Stop perpetuating the stereotypes.

-NP

[Anonymous]

I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

Dd has a situation with two girls who are supposedly besties but when one of them is out from school, the other plays with her. We talk about that friends should be kind and inclusive all the time, but I don’t know if this is sticking (dd is 7) as the cycle continues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

Dd has a situation with two girls who are supposedly besties but when one of them is out from school, the other plays with her. We talk about that friends should be kind and inclusive all the time, but I don’t know if this is sticking (dd is 7) as the cycle continues.

This isn't the same and the bolded seems normal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

Dd has a situation with two girls who are supposedly besties but when one of them is out from school, the other plays with her. We talk about that friends should be kind and inclusive all the time, but I don’t know if this is sticking (dd is 7) as the cycle continues.

This isn't the same and the bolded seems normal.

Thanks so much for your expert opinion on relational exclusion. Very helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

Dd has a situation with two girls who are supposedly besties but when one of them is out from school, the other plays with her. We talk about that friends should be kind and inclusive all the time, but I don’t know if this is sticking (dd is 7) as the cycle continues.

This isn't the same and the bolded seems normal.

DP. Wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also think making sure kids are not labeling other kids as bad based on what is typically a temporary behavior. We also teach our kids it is ok not to be friends with others if they are being treated in unkind way. Unfortunately, this worked great only until they were around 9 or 10.

Like many other schools (and for good reasons), our school has a culture where kids should not exclude others from activities. The problem is when you have a repeat soft undermining behavior, not bullying when looked at individual instances, but damaging in the long run, especially in terms of self esteem and standing among friends.

My DC has two classmates who have been hot and cold to her for years. When they do or say mean staff to her, she calls it out and distances herself. A few days later, they start acting nice like nothing happened. DC cannot exclude them any longer as they are now nice and individual incidents don’t seem to be too bad on the surface, but, inevitably, the cycle repeats. It can be exhausting to watch this over and over again. If those were adults, we could easily remove ourselves from such situations, our kids don’t always have that luxury in the small school environment. From that aspect, I am not sure that “until nice again” advice is the best. But I haven’t found a better approach to address this issue.

Dd has a situation with two girls who are supposedly besties but when one of them is out from school, the other plays with her. We talk about that friends should be kind and inclusive all the time, but I don’t know if this is sticking (dd is 7) as the cycle continues.

This isn't the same and the bolded seems normal.

DP. Wrong.

It is wrong. It is how girls that age bully: purposefully excluding others from play some days and creating “rules” of when so and so can play with so and so. I have noticed that parents that believe this is “normal “ communicate their thoughts to their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that girls just care more about being included. My daughter is always sad when she finds out there was a birthday party that she was not invited to or a playdate going on that does not include her. My son could not care less and he is older. Perhaps other boys do care?

My second grade son doesn’t care, either. He had a falling out with his former best friend. He was upset for a few days and then moved on. He still plays with his former friend at recess and is polite, but says “I don’t trust him anymore.”

I feel like the same situation would lead to high drama with two girls. Girls tend to try to win friend’s approval back. They tend to ruminate. They try to get other girls to side with them. That just opens the door to more “mean” behavior. Boys tend to shut all of that down fast. My son would never consider trying to get the other boys to ignore Larlo or vice versa.

Gender stereotypes exist for a reason, because they reflect reality. Pretending otherwise won’t change that reality. I think it’s a combination of nature and nurture, but mostly I think it’s mostly nature at the end of the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems to me that girls just care more about being included. My daughter is always sad when she finds out there was a birthday party that she was not invited to or a playdate going on that does not include her. My son could not care less and he is older. Perhaps other boys do care?

My second grade son doesn’t care, either. He had a falling out with his former best friend. He was upset for a few days and then moved on. He still plays with his former friend at recess and is polite, but says “I don’t trust him anymore.”

I feel like the same situation would lead to high drama with two girls. Girls tend to try to win friend’s approval back. They tend to ruminate. They try to get other girls to side with them. That just opens the door to more “mean” behavior. Boys tend to shut all of that down fast. My son would never consider trying to get the other boys to ignore Larlo or vice versa.

Gender stereotypes exist for a reason, because they reflect reality. Pretending otherwise won’t change that reality. I think it’s a combination of nature and nurture, but mostly I think it’s mostly nature at the end of the day.

+1

[Anonymous]

Well, this thread is 6 years old, so OP - how is your daughter doing in 8th grade?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Well, this thread is 6 years old, so OP - how is your daughter doing in 8th grade?

Yes! Come back and give us the “where are they now” and what you learned as a mom

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s normal. I don’t really like calling 2nd graders mean girls, because I think it’s really rare that a second grader is actually a mean girl (as a 7th or 8tb grader would be) - it’s more that 2nd graders are pretty clueless about friendship & social skills. They are all struggling, trying things on, saying dumb stuff. ..not a lot of it is calculated exclusionary mean girl bullying like in middle school. It’s more kids struggling to figure out social norms & acceptable behavior.

So yes, tell your DD to take a break from anyone being mean. If they seem kinder the next week, then go for it, play with them again.

+1000 to this and to the comment that this not isolated to girls. Gah it’s pretty sexist we make these conclusions about girls only.

This is almost always kids building social skills and trying to feel things out rather than malicious intent. They’re learning to be human.

NP, I agree with all of this!

NP, I disagree with all of this. It is typically seen more often with girls than boys and it’s almost always behavior modeled by their mean-girl moms who never grew up. These 8-yr olds aren’t “figuring out” social skills and coming up with these behaviors out of thin air, they’re emulating their mothers. The kids displaying these behaviors at 8 almost always end up being the “mean girls” in middle school. I’m a die-hard feminist and this isn’t sexism, it’s reality. It’s nurture, not nature.

Have you hung out with an eight year old boy lately? They can be real jerks. Usually it’s in a less sophisticated way because their social skills are generally a little behind girls.

I agree. I have both a boy and a girl. I am much more worried about his capacity to be mean to classmates than his sister. Obviously, they are different people, but they way they interact has made me realize my boy child will need a lot more "training" on empathy than my daughter.

Same. My daughter understands social interactions so much more than my boy. Sometimes, she and her friends use this understanding in obnoxious ways. My boy does not. But he also does not notice people's feelings in the same way that my daughter does; she's capable of noticing and helping people much more than he is. There's a flipside to social awareness, and in little kids who are still figuring out how the world works, sometimes that shows up as testing out being a jerk (I HATE the term "mean girl"), or manipulative, or whatever. My son, while generally a lovely guy, sometimes goes too far with the sports trash talk and hurts his friends' feelings without meaning to, and has to be educated about what he did, why it hurts, why you shouldn't do it. (Not to mention that boys tend to be much more physical when they're angry than girls, at least in my experience.)

In short, I think so much of the "mean girl" conversation can be attributed to misogyny and the idea that boys are just cooler/nicer/more awesome than girls, when the truth is that normal human experimentation and aggression comes out in different ways in different kids.

To the PP blaming mean moms--yeah, maybe some girls (and boys...?) are copying their rude or wannabe-leader parents. I just think there's a lot of run of the mill social learning going on and sometimes it's quite ugly.

Great response from someone who has experience with both genders. I do sometimes think little girls are held to a higher standard while “boys will be boys”.

With my female child we did have relational aggression from another girl in kindergarten. This child was a queen bee and I witnessed her actually smiling when she made other children cry. We encouraged other friendships (play dates, talking about who is fun to play with etc) eventually my kid just avoided her and we stopped hearing about this kid. But for a while my daughter seemed to really want to to be in her orbit. We also had a boy who hit multiple kids in our aftercare program and he was actually kicked out.