Why aren’t KIPP schools popularity on this board

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

One again, kids, and families, are different, which it is why it is silly that some posters keep making the point that "UMCs think they are so smart but really they are clueless about their lame-ass kids, who all could use KIPP"

Anyway, see 13:15. That article makes much better points than I can articulate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

One again, kids, and families, are different, which it is why it is silly that some posters keep making the point that "UMCs think they are so smart but really they are clueless about their lame-ass kids, who all could use KIPP"

Anyway, see 13:15. That article makes much better points than I can articulate.

This is not how I took the response. The first few responses were how UMC kids don't need schools like this. And then someone said well actually maybe some do. Why is it a bad thing to point out that these schools might also be a good fit for UMC kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are set up to compensate for not having the structure and resources that UMC parents have. UMC parents don't need school till 5 p.m., rigidity on how you move, walk and required family participation.

UMC don't THINK their kids need or would benefit from that kind of structure. Also there is absolutely a stigma surrounding schools like KIPP, deserved or not. In a different context, "required family participation" is seen as a wonderful thing -- for example, cooperative schools. But because it is an urban, minority school, that is seen as "too rigid."

Also I now laugh at people assuming that just because your kid is UMC they don't need structure that you'll find at places like KIPP (and in the classrooms of old-school DCPS teachers). My kid is absolutely thriving in such a structured environment. It REALLY made me rethink my prejudices about programs like KIPP. If I knew then what I know now, I absolutely would have considered KIPPs for PK, and I will keep an open mind for middle and high school.

I also get input from a broader range of people than UMC DCUMers ... my neighbors pulled their kids from our sought-after "flipped" DCPS and put them in KIPP. They report that the kids are loving it and can't wait to go back after vacations. These are bright, nice kids, hard-working parents, kids that I would have zero worries about having in class with mine.

Of course some of the stories about harshness and rigidity give me pause. But I feel like now I have a much better framework for how schools "work" and my particular child. If the classroom is overall warm and positives, the teachers good, the admins solid, and everyone is focused on learning ... then having to walk silently in the hallways is not the main thing.

Okay I read it again. No where in here did it say UMC NEED a school like KIPP. Stop putting your own insecurities in the way you read things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are set up to compensate for not having the structure and resources that UMC parents have. UMC parents don't need school till 5 p.m., rigidity on how you move, walk and required family participation.

UMC don't THINK their kids need or would benefit from that kind of structure. Also there is absolutely a stigma surrounding schools like KIPP, deserved or not. In a different context, "required family participation" is seen as a wonderful thing -- for example, cooperative schools. But because it is an urban, minority school, that is seen as "too rigid."

Also I now laugh at people assuming that just because your kid is UMC they don't need structure that you'll find at places like KIPP (and in the classrooms of old-school DCPS teachers). My kid is absolutely thriving in such a structured environment. It REALLY made me rethink my prejudices about programs like KIPP. If I knew then what I know now, I absolutely would have considered KIPPs for PK, and I will keep an open mind for middle and high school.

I also get input from a broader range of people than UMC DCUMers ... my neighbors pulled their kids from our sought-after "flipped" DCPS and put them in KIPP. They report that the kids are loving it and can't wait to go back after vacations. These are bright, nice kids, hard-working parents, kids that I would have zero worries about having in class with mine.

Of course some of the stories about harshness and rigidity give me pause. But I feel like now I have a much better framework for how schools "work" and my particular child. If the classroom is overall warm and positives, the teachers good, the admins solid, and everyone is focused on learning ... then having to walk silently in the hallways is not the main thing.

Okay I read it again. No where in here did it say UMC NEED a school like KIPP. Stop putting your own insecurities in the way you read things.

Huh? That's precisely what it said. My insecurities don't account for PP's capitalizations or 'laughing.'

"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

I'm a NP but actually I don't know how true the previous comment is for many UMC kids these days. I say this as a new parent who has watched two cousins (also UMC) whose parents have pretty much done everything for them and I don't know how capable they are of doing many of the things that we all likely had to do as teenagers - e.g. get a part time job, advocate for yourself, call the darn cell phone company to change your plan. I know this may be off topic but I've seen it play out twice so far in my own family and have heard from other friends who are teachers that many of the young adults/teens they encounter these days applying for jobs etc. have mommies and daddies who do all the heavy lifting for them. I know I digress from the topic at hand....As a relatively new parent I know I shouldn't judge but I've been pretty shocked by what I've seen in my own UMC family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

I'm a NP but actually I don't know how true the previous comment is for many UMC kids these days. I say this as a new parent who has watched two cousins (also UMC) whose parents have pretty much done everything for them and I don't know how capable they are of doing many of the things that we all likely had to do as teenagers - e.g. get a part time job, advocate for yourself, call the darn cell phone company to change your plan. I know this may be off topic but I've seen it play out twice so far in my own family and have heard from other friends who are teachers that many of the young adults/teens they encounter these days applying for jobs etc. have mommies and daddies who do all the heavy lifting for them. I know I digress from the topic at hand....As a relatively new parent I know I shouldn't judge but I've been pretty shocked by what I've seen in my own UMC family.

That may well be and it doesn't do them any favors, but they still do have parents who know how to do it for them. Many poor kids don't. If they learn those skills from school, they may wind up being better off than their UMC peers in the long run!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are set up to compensate for not having the structure and resources that UMC parents have. UMC parents don't need school till 5 p.m., rigidity on how you move, walk and required family participation.

Basically, this. I'd add that most MC/UMC parents don't -want- their kids in such highly regimented environments, and they often aren't necessary because the kids already have sufficient structure, stability, and parental involvement in education. What KIPP does well is provide structure and high expectations for kids who might not otherwise have that, either at school or at home.

Disagree. The parents I know who send their kids to KIPP (or might) absolutely have high expectations for their kids. That's why they send them to KIPP. It's absolutely false that only UMC parents have structure and expectations in DC.

I don't mean necessarily from parents, but if you think your neighborhood school is dysfunctional, one of the forms that might take is that the teachers and admin have lower expectations for what the kids can do. Or the other students in the school have parents with low expectations. KIPP is a corrective to that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

Uh, absolutely the school had to teach him how to listen to his teacher. And he is only 5, so it's going to be a while for job applications. Sure, things could look different for middle and high school, maybe even upper elementary, but my experience so far has taught me not to make assumptions about any school based on stigma or unexamined notions about what a "good" school is like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

One again, kids, and families, are different, which it is why it is silly that some posters keep making the point that "UMCs think they are so smart but really they are clueless about their lame-ass kids, who all could use KIPP"

Anyway, see 13:15. That article makes much better points than I can articulate.

You're twisting the topic. The topic is UMC parents (like you) who think that a KIPP could NEVER be a good learning environment for their child. OP (and I) are suggesting that in fact it could be a good environment for many kids, regardless of income levels. The refusal to even consider or learn about it for your kid because you think it is just for "those" kids is what we're calling out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

Uh, absolutely the school had to teach him how to listen to his teacher. And he is only 5, so it's going to be a while for job applications. Sure, things could look different for middle and high school, maybe even upper elementary, but my experience so far has taught me not to make assumptions about any school based on stigma or unexamined notions about what a "good" school is like.

DP. It's strange how people posting on this thread aren't reading other posts on this thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Yes, there are poor families who have the internal structure of UMC families, but they are in the minority in DC. KIPP is targeting those kids whose parents don't ask about homework, aren't conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher, who don't know the "soft skills" that UMC kids learn. They are in the business of filling gaps.

This is unbelievably racist. You think that the white UMC kids of DC have the soft skills that make them "conditioned to sit and pay attention to a teacher"? No, they have parents who will argue that it's not developmentally appropriate for them to sit still and that they need a yoga ball or fidget or ability to move during lessons or... any number of things. It is the white parents I know who don't ask about homework and argue for less of it. Sheesh.

Those parents at whom you scoff have the academic research on their side. In any event, what bothers you so much about a fidget toy? What's wrong with not wanting an overload of homework?

I was once one of those parents, and my son actually needs structure. There's no "academic research" showing that lack of structure is good for kids. Lack of structure was awful for him, actually.

But I suspect he didn't need his school to teach him how to listen to someone or how to fill out a job application. He's getting that at home. That's the stuff KIPP is providing alongside academics.

Uh, absolutely the school had to teach him how to listen to his teacher. And he is only 5, so it's going to be a while for job applications. Sure, things could look different for middle and high school, maybe even upper elementary, but my experience so far has taught me not to make assumptions about any school based on stigma or unexamined notions about what a "good" school is like.

Your kid is 5 and you think you have the experience to opine on educational strategies? You've had exactly 5 months of school. Maybe wait a few years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are set up to compensate for not having the structure and resources that UMC parents have. UMC parents don't need school till 5 p.m., rigidity on how you move, walk and required family participation.

UMC don't THINK their kids need or would benefit from that kind of structure. Also there is absolutely a stigma surrounding schools like KIPP, deserved or not. In a different context, "required family participation" is seen as a wonderful thing -- for example, cooperative schools. But because it is an urban, minority school, that is seen as "too rigid."

Also I now laugh at people assuming that just because your kid is UMC they don't need structure that you'll find at places like KIPP (and in the classrooms of old-school DCPS teachers). My kid is absolutely thriving in such a structured environment. It REALLY made me rethink my prejudices about programs like KIPP. If I knew then what I know now, I absolutely would have considered KIPPs for PK, and I will keep an open mind for middle and high school.

I also get input from a broader range of people than UMC DCUMers ... my neighbors pulled their kids from our sought-after "flipped" DCPS and put them in KIPP. They report that the kids are loving it and can't wait to go back after vacations. These are bright, nice kids, hard-working parents, kids that I would have zero worries about having in class with mine.

Of course some of the stories about harshness and rigidity give me pause. But I feel like now I have a much better framework for how schools "work" and my particular child. If the classroom is overall warm and positives, the teachers good, the admins solid, and everyone is focused on learning ... then having to walk silently in the hallways is not the main thing.

Okay I read it again. No where in here did it say UMC NEED a school like KIPP. Stop putting your own insecurities in the way you read things.

Huh? That's precisely what it said. My insecurities don't account for PP's capitalizations or 'laughing.'

"

I am the PP who wrote about my structure-needing kid. You're just looking to argue. I have no issue with the idea that kids need different levels of structure. I just think these needs are far more individual that people understand, and you shouldn't assume anything until you understand your kid and how they learn best. In the same way my kid needs structure, I am positive that there are KIPP kids who would do great at Montessori or whatever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because they are set up to compensate for not having the structure and resources that UMC parents have. UMC parents don't need school till 5 p.m., rigidity on how you move, walk and required family participation.

UMC don't THINK their kids need or would benefit from that kind of structure. Also there is absolutely a stigma surrounding schools like KIPP, deserved or not. In a different context, "required family participation" is seen as a wonderful thing -- for example, cooperative schools. But because it is an urban, minority school, that is seen as "too rigid."

Also I now laugh at people assuming that just because your kid is UMC they don't need structure that you'll find at places like KIPP (and in the classrooms of old-school DCPS teachers). My kid is absolutely thriving in such a structured environment. It REALLY made me rethink my prejudices about programs like KIPP. If I knew then what I know now, I absolutely would have considered KIPPs for PK, and I will keep an open mind for middle and high school.

I also get input from a broader range of people than UMC DCUMers ... my neighbors pulled their kids from our sought-after "flipped" DCPS and put them in KIPP. They report that the kids are loving it and can't wait to go back after vacations. These are bright, nice kids, hard-working parents, kids that I would have zero worries about having in class with mine.

Of course some of the stories about harshness and rigidity give me pause. But I feel like now I have a much better framework for how schools "work" and my particular child. If the classroom is overall warm and positives, the teachers good, the admins solid, and everyone is focused on learning ... then having to walk silently in the hallways is not the main thing.

Okay I read it again. No where in here did it say UMC NEED a school like KIPP. Stop putting your own insecurities in the way you read things.

Huh? That's precisely what it said. My insecurities don't account for PP's capitalizations or 'laughing.'

"

I am the PP who wrote about my structure-needing kid. You're just looking to argue. I have no issue with the idea that kids need different levels of structure. I just think these needs are far more individual that people understand, and you shouldn't assume anything until you understand your kid and how they learn best. In the same way my kid needs structure, I am positive that there are KIPP kids who would do great at Montessori or whatever.

Thank you for coming back because this is absolutely how I took what you posted.