Help me help my DD navigate frenemy

[Anonymous]

I came back to this thread to answer the OP's question on how to model the behavior of reacting differently (my suggestion) and someone had already answered that, pretty well.

My DD has an iPod with headphones and a book at hand for any recess where she needs to get out of the hot water friendship situation.

I think your kid has good instincts in terms of building new friendships and backing away from the pressure the old ones create.

Sometimes its a matter of time, too. Middle school will have plenty of new people and scenarios to create changes in her social groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the insights/help. The odd thing is (or maybe this is typical), this girl is also possessive of her and tells her not to be friends with girls outside the group. This girl sends conflicting messages to my daughter, so DD responds to the positive and feels compelled to accept play dates for fear that if she says no, the wrath will be worse. I am not sure that this girl actually dislikes DD, rather, but I am beginning to suspect this girl derives some enjoyment out of hurting others. But I digress...

In addition to expanding her universe, I am trying to help DD be diplomatic, assertive, etc. The other girls' reactions (or lack thereof) tend to be 1)lack of backbone despite sympathy and 2)desire to just stay out of it because the conflict is uncomfortable. Yes, in the end, she can't stick with this "group", because it's making her unhappy and she is starting to prefer to just not join rather than be subjected to it. DD is not the only one on the receiving end, but, no doubt, gets the brunt of it by far. Additional advice is welcome. The anxiety my DD has as a result is just awful.

The only thing I would do in your shoes is encourage her in the bolded, because her feelings are absolutely spot on. I wouldn't try to manipulate her friendship or suggest any weird sceanrio's as a pp described. I'd talk to her about how there are different kinds of friendships, and that's OK. Best friends, situational friends (which it sounds like this girl is), acquaintances, etc. I'd encourage her to stand up for herself if someone is mistreating her and to not be afraid to make new friends.

The only thing I would add to the above is to remember that not every conversation with your daughter has to be about fixing this. Some of them can just be about making her feel better in a tough situation and letting her vent.

This is tough, but the bolded comments suggests she is on her way toward the solution of new friends on her own - that's really where she is headed. You can't fix, but what you can do is be extra cooperative about driving, having kids over, whatever. It will take her a while to make new friends. If it is something she won't hate, I would suggest she think about joining stage crew. Those kids are always nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:See if your daughter is ok with you talking to the teacher. Again, your child is being bullied. You shouldn't take this lightly.The teacher can do things like have your daughter sit in a different group in class and the teacher can talk to the bully about the way she treats your child. Then outside of school, help your dd make other friends with play dates and activities.

Good god! By fifth grade sometimes this leads to ostracism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree about the need to make other friends. My son had a situation somewhat like this when he was around 5th-7th grade (a kid who was not his friend but tried to insert himself into DS's social plans whenever he made plans with other kids and to exclude DS whenever this kid had plans). The kid would also talk negatively about DS to other kids. DS finally just stopped all contact outside of school and started focusing a lot more on his sports friends. The kid reacted negatively for a while by stepping up his attempts to exclude DS and say negative things about him, but DS eventually just made a whole new circle of friends.

Over time, DS also realized that other kids in the original circle were kind of enabling this stuff -- one friend in particular (a girl) that DS considered one of his best friends. In middle school, DS finally realized that he was still trying to be friends but she was answering about one in three of his texts and also making sure that DS knew when she was hanging out with the frenemy boy. Once DS realized that she wasn't really his friend, he totally stop contact with her too. He was friendly when they saw each other at school but never texted or initiated any contact. When she invited him to hang out he replied regretfully that he had other plans whether he did or not. It was a somewhat tough year or so socially while that happened, but DS ended up MUCH happier and started to blossom socially as he challenged himself to hang out with different kids. Once high school started, his skill at getting out of his comfort zone and making new friends really helped him to make a lot of new friends. Meanwhile that group from ES/MS is largely all still in the same somewhat dysfunctional little group.

Thanks - this gives me hope. This scenario matches up with what I see - my daughter has backed away to protect herself, which may have made things worse, in a way, similar to what you described. (I just don’t get that part - like the bully is oddly obsessed with ensuring that person is at his or her mercy? Aside from being spoiled, there are no issues in this girl’s home to ‘explain’ the bad behavior. Not sure if it helps to understand what drives it, but what gives? I find it to be pretty creepy.). Did you talk to your son about avoiding the bully and his accomplice, or did your son do this all on his own? I feel caught between letting her figure stufff out (although not totally on her own) and feeling the need to coach and offer suggestions.

After we finally clearly realized what was going on, we strongly encouraged DS to pursue other friendships.

It was tough because we were really close to the kid's parents, and they were not seeing it and kind of blowing it off if we mentioned anything about the kids not getting along. So it took us longer than it should to stop encouraging friendship between them. Things actually came to a head when our families took a trip together. It we interesting because we went to an environment where my kid was really comfortable (lots of activities that he's good at), and this kid felt really threatened, so he spent his time hanging out at the hotel and trying to exclude my kid from socializing with other kids their age who were also staying there. It was weird and sad, but it really made clear how insecure this kid was. We (parents) had not totally perceived the dynamic before that. During that trip is where we started to strongly urge making different friends. That's also around the time that my kid started to get seriously interested in his sport, which was really fortunate -- it gave him two whole different groups of friends (school team, travel team), and gave him a real sense of accomplishment at something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree about the need to make other friends. My son had a situation somewhat like this when he was around 5th-7th grade (a kid who was not his friend but tried to insert himself into DS's social plans whenever he made plans with other kids and to exclude DS whenever this kid had plans). The kid would also talk negatively about DS to other kids. DS finally just stopped all contact outside of school and started focusing a lot more on his sports friends. The kid reacted negatively for a while by stepping up his attempts to exclude DS and say negative things about him, but DS eventually just made a whole new circle of friends.

Over time, DS also realized that other kids in the original circle were kind of enabling this stuff -- one friend in particular (a girl) that DS considered one of his best friends. In middle school, DS finally realized that he was still trying to be friends but she was answering about one in three of his texts and also making sure that DS knew when she was hanging out with the frenemy boy. Once DS realized that she wasn't really his friend, he totally stop contact with her too. He was friendly when they saw each other at school but never texted or initiated any contact. When she invited him to hang out he replied regretfully that he had other plans whether he did or not. It was a somewhat tough year or so socially while that happened, but DS ended up MUCH happier and started to blossom socially as he challenged himself to hang out with different kids. Once high school started, his skill at getting out of his comfort zone and making new friends really helped him to make a lot of new friends. Meanwhile that group from ES/MS is largely all still in the same somewhat dysfunctional little group.

Thanks - this gives me hope. This scenario matches up with what I see - my daughter has backed away to protect herself, which may have made things worse, in a way, similar to what you described. (I just don’t get that part - like the bully is oddly obsessed with ensuring that person is at his or her mercy? Aside from being spoiled, there are no issues in this girl’s home to ‘explain’ the bad behavior. Not sure if it helps to understand what drives it, but what gives? I find it to be pretty creepy.). Did you talk to your son about avoiding the bully and his accomplice, or did your son do this all on his own? I feel caught between letting her figure stufff out (although not totally on her own) and feeling the need to coach and offer suggestions.

After we finally clearly realized what was going on, we strongly encouraged DS to pursue other friendships.

It was tough because we were really close to the kid's parents, and they were not seeing it and kind of blowing it off if we mentioned anything about the kids not getting along. So it took us longer than it should to stop encouraging friendship between them. Things actually came to a head when our families took a trip together. It we interesting because we went to an environment where my kid was really comfortable (lots of activities that he's good at), and this kid felt really threatened, so he spent his time hanging out at the hotel and trying to exclude my kid from socializing with other kids their age who were also staying there. It was weird and sad, but it really made clear how insecure this kid was. We (parents) had not totally perceived the dynamic before that. During that trip is where we started to strongly urge making different friends. That's also around the time that my kid started to get seriously interested in his sport, which was really fortunate -- it gave him two whole different groups of friends (school team, travel team), and gave him a real sense of accomplishment at something.

I am so curious what falls into the realm of normal. I recall this thread because my son had a situation similar to one the stories on here. I came back to it because my daughter is dealing with mean girl dynamics I wonder if some of this is growing pains or do some of these controlling kids grow up to be harassing adults or seriously disturbed adults if they don't get help. We have a frenemy situation going on and the teacher pays close attention. Some of the stuff even the teacher has witnessed sounds like the girls our daughter is distancing herself from are downright sadistic when with the queen b. It basically confirmed our suspicious these girls are bad news for her. Now that DD is exiting the group for good is that they not spread rumors and keep trying to draw her back in and they are saying things to her new friends to make her look bad. I won't go through the list of things these girls have done, but even just what the teacher has confirmed makes me wonder if the queen B is mentally ill. I just want to say to these girls "Get a life. Read a book. Run a marathon. Go help others less fortunate. Do anything to stop being so downright mean and let my child go!" Is this a phase or do these kids have personality disorders that need to be treated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:See if your daughter is ok with you talking to the teacher. Again, your child is being bullied. You shouldn't take this lightly.The teacher can do things like have your daughter sit in a different group in class and the teacher can talk to the bully about the way she treats your child. Then outside of school, help your dd make other friends with play dates and activities.

Good god! By fifth grade sometimes this leads to ostracism.

I just posted, but am posting again to say we had to get our daughter's teacher involved (4th grade) and are glad we did, but she is also our daughter's all time favorite teacher and she is VERY socially aware. She has been a huge help. She's into empowering young girls and emphasizing respect, kindness, and empathy in her classroom. She doesn't fall for the act where girls are sycophantic to the teacher and then mean on the playground.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree about the need to make other friends. My son had a situation somewhat like this when he was around 5th-7th grade (a kid who was not his friend but tried to insert himself into DS's social plans whenever he made plans with other kids and to exclude DS whenever this kid had plans). The kid would also talk negatively about DS to other kids. DS finally just stopped all contact outside of school and started focusing a lot more on his sports friends. The kid reacted negatively for a while by stepping up his attempts to exclude DS and say negative things about him, but DS eventually just made a whole new circle of friends.

Over time, DS also realized that other kids in the original circle were kind of enabling this stuff -- one friend in particular (a girl) that DS considered one of his best friends. In middle school, DS finally realized that he was still trying to be friends but she was answering about one in three of his texts and also making sure that DS knew when she was hanging out with the frenemy boy. Once DS realized that she wasn't really his friend, he totally stop contact with her too. He was friendly when they saw each other at school but never texted or initiated any contact. When she invited him to hang out he replied regretfully that he had other plans whether he did or not. It was a somewhat tough year or so socially while that happened, but DS ended up MUCH happier and started to blossom socially as he challenged himself to hang out with different kids. Once high school started, his skill at getting out of his comfort zone and making new friends really helped him to make a lot of new friends. Meanwhile that group from ES/MS is largely all still in the same somewhat dysfunctional little group.

Thanks - this gives me hope. This scenario matches up with what I see - my daughter has backed away to protect herself, which may have made things worse, in a way, similar to what you described. (I just don’t get that part - like the bully is oddly obsessed with ensuring that person is at his or her mercy? Aside from being spoiled, there are no issues in this girl’s home to ‘explain’ the bad behavior. Not sure if it helps to understand what drives it, but what gives? I find it to be pretty creepy.). Did you talk to your son about avoiding the bully and his accomplice, or did your son do this all on his own? I feel caught between letting her figure stufff out (although not totally on her own) and feeling the need to coach and offer suggestions.

After we finally clearly realized what was going on, we strongly encouraged DS to pursue other friendships.

It was tough because we were really close to the kid's parents, and they were not seeing it and kind of blowing it off if we mentioned anything about the kids not getting along. So it took us longer than it should to stop encouraging friendship between them. Things actually came to a head when our families took a trip together. It we interesting because we went to an environment where my kid was really comfortable (lots of activities that he's good at), and this kid felt really threatened, so he spent his time hanging out at the hotel and trying to exclude my kid from socializing with other kids their age who were also staying there. It was weird and sad, but it really made clear how insecure this kid was. We (parents) had not totally perceived the dynamic before that. During that trip is where we started to strongly urge making different friends. That's also around the time that my kid started to get seriously interested in his sport, which was really fortunate -- it gave him two whole different groups of friends (school team, travel team), and gave him a real sense of accomplishment at something.

I am so curious what falls into the realm of normal. I recall this thread because my son had a situation similar to one the stories on here. I came back to it because my daughter is dealing with mean girl dynamics I wonder if some of this is growing pains or do some of these controlling kids grow up to be harassing adults or seriously disturbed adults if they don't get help. We have a frenemy situation going on and the teacher pays close attention. Some of the stuff even the teacher has witnessed sounds like the girls our daughter is distancing herself from are downright sadistic when with the queen b. It basically confirmed our suspicious these girls are bad news for her. Now that DD is exiting the group for good is that they not spread rumors and keep trying to draw her back in and they are saying things to her new friends to make her look bad. I won't go through the list of things these girls have done, but even just what the teacher has confirmed makes me wonder if the queen B is mentally ill. I just want to say to these girls "Get a life. Read a book. Run a marathon. Go help others less fortunate. Do anything to stop being so downright mean and let my child go!" Is this a phase or do these kids have personality disorders that need to be treated?

In our case, the queen b behavior looks like borderline personality disorder. My DD is experiencing same thing you just described as she, too, tries to disengage from an abusive situation. Lies, trying to draw her back in. I, too, don't get why they can't just let a girl move on, until I remember that it boils down to a desire to control and have power over others. You are lucky to have a teacher who can help. In our case the school can't be depended on to do so and the queen b in question is good at hiding the behavior and making it hard to pin down the rap sheet.