New GS rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

Does anyone know if there is data to suggest that the ATS VPI kids are outperforming the VPI kids at other schools? I'd be interested to see this information. Because that would point to this educational model being superior for certain subgroups.

Uh no it wouldn’t. It would prove that they have more invested patents. Why is this so hard to grasp?

[Anonymous]

Madison is a 6?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

Does anyone know if there is data to suggest that the ATS VPI kids are outperforming the VPI kids at other schools? I'd be interested to see this information. Because that would point to this educational model being superior for certain subgroups.

Uh no it wouldn’t. It would prove that they have more invested patents. Why is this so hard to grasp?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

I'm an ATS parent (not of an economically disadvantaged child, however), and PP's comments ring true for me. The lottery deinitely plays into it, particularly the self-selecting group of parents who seek out ATS rather than other lottery/choice programs because of it's reputation (well founded or not) for high standards and academic rigor. But ATS expects a lot from its students and their families. There is a significant amount of homework, and a no-nonsense attitude about it. You don't get to opt out of the homework because you are philosophically opposed to it. That might fly at some other APS elementaries, but it won't at ATS. And you can't just ignore the homework assignments and hope they go away. If a child doesn't complete his/her homework, it gets sent home again the next night. It's very insistent. The school's, not unreasonable, attitude is that you opted in to this approach. I've certainly never heard of any ATS kids who have been shipped back to their neighborhood school because they don't complete their homework, but there is an implicit understanding at any lottery school that each child has another, readily available school option.

The homework assigned in K is particularly burdensome. I don't have a philosophical objection to homework for elementary age kids, even young ones (and yes, I do know about the research regarding its value), and understood full well that homework would be assigned in K, but even I was taken aback by the sheer volume. And here is the key part: that nightly homework in K absolutely required parental help. It was designed that way. It did occur to me at the time that this was a way of indocrinating new parents into the ATS way. By sending a strong message that parents were going to be very involved in their kids' education. It probably didn't matter much to my DS, because DH and I were always going to be involved in his education, no matter what. But this approach might have made a difference to the economically disadvantaged kids and families.

The amount of homework assigned drops off significantly after K, which tends to support the theory that the school is sending an early message to parents. The school works particularly hard over the first year to minimize the achievement gaps which exist when the kids arrive in K, with the goal of getting all the kids on a relatively equal footing coming out of K. K is a bit of an academic bootcamp, for students and parents alike. This makes it seem joyless, but it's not. The kids still sing, dance, do very goofy things, and have tons of parties and field trips. They have fun. It's less fun for the parents.

PP is also correct that there is a mandatory homework packet and reading challenge every summer (which also includes the kids entering K). I assume this is intended to address the "sumer slide."

If this is all true and data can prove that with parental help the achievement gap is minimized and for over a long period of time, this needs national attention. Right now parental help is not really part of the discussion on minimizing the achievement gap.

I'm the ATS PP. To be clear, these are just my personal observations. I dont have any data to back them up.

[Anonymous]

The only school I need my district that scored a 10 is a small elementary school with a homogenous population. No poverty. It's mostly sfhs and no apartments or rentals. Guess that's what great schools wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

I'm an ATS parent (not of an economically disadvantaged child, however), and PP's comments ring true for me. The lottery deinitely plays into it, particularly the self-selecting group of parents who seek out ATS rather than other lottery/choice programs because of it's reputation (well founded or not) for high standards and academic rigor. But ATS expects a lot from its students and their families. There is a significant amount of homework, and a no-nonsense attitude about it. You don't get to opt out of the homework because you are philosophically opposed to it. That might fly at some other APS elementaries, but it won't at ATS. And you can't just ignore the homework assignments and hope they go away. If a child doesn't complete his/her homework, it gets sent home again the next night. It's very insistent. The school's, not unreasonable, attitude is that you opted in to this approach. I've certainly never heard of any ATS kids who have been shipped back to their neighborhood school because they don't complete their homework, but there is an implicit understanding at any lottery school that each child has another, readily available school option.

The homework assigned in K is particularly burdensome. I don't have a philosophical objection to homework for elementary age kids, even young ones (and yes, I do know about the research regarding its value), and understood full well that homework would be assigned in K, but even I was taken aback by the sheer volume. And here is the key part: that nightly homework in K absolutely required parental help. It was designed that way. It did occur to me at the time that this was a way of indocrinating new parents into the ATS way. By sending a strong message that parents were going to be very involved in their kids' education. It probably didn't matter much to my DS, because DH and I were always going to be involved in his education, no matter what. But this approach might have made a difference to the economically disadvantaged kids and families.

The amount of homework assigned drops off significantly after K, which tends to support the theory that the school is sending an early message to parents. The school works particularly hard over the first year to minimize the achievement gaps which exist when the kids arrive in K, with the goal of getting all the kids on a relatively equal footing coming out of K. K is a bit of an academic bootcamp, for students and parents alike. This makes it seem joyless, but it's not. The kids still sing, dance, do very goofy things, and have tons of parties and field trips. They have fun. It's less fun for the parents.

PP is also correct that there is a mandatory homework packet and reading challenge every summer (which also includes the kids entering K). I assume this is intended to address the "sumer slide."

If this is all true and data can prove that with parental help the achievement gap is minimized and for over a long period of time, this needs national attention. Right now parental help is not really part of the discussion on minimizing the achievement gap.

I'm pretty sure that this is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

I'm an ATS parent (not of an economically disadvantaged child, however), and PP's comments ring true for me. The lottery deinitely plays into it, particularly the self-selecting group of parents who seek out ATS rather than other lottery/choice programs because of it's reputation (well founded or not) for high standards and academic rigor. But ATS expects a lot from its students and their families. There is a significant amount of homework, and a no-nonsense attitude about it. You don't get to opt out of the homework because you are philosophically opposed to it. That might fly at some other APS elementaries, but it won't at ATS. And you can't just ignore the homework assignments and hope they go away. If a child doesn't complete his/her homework, it gets sent home again the next night. It's very insistent. The school's, not unreasonable, attitude is that you opted in to this approach. I've certainly never heard of any ATS kids who have been shipped back to their neighborhood school because they don't complete their homework, but there is an implicit understanding at any lottery school that each child has another, readily available school option.

The homework assigned in K is particularly burdensome. I don't have a philosophical objection to homework for elementary age kids, even young ones (and yes, I do know about the research regarding its value), and understood full well that homework would be assigned in K, but even I was taken aback by the sheer volume. And here is the key part: that nightly homework in K absolutely required parental help. It was designed that way. It did occur to me at the time that this was a way of indocrinating new parents into the ATS way. By sending a strong message that parents were going to be very involved in their kids' education. It probably didn't matter much to my DS, because DH and I were always going to be involved in his education, no matter what. But this approach might have made a difference to the economically disadvantaged kids and families.

The amount of homework assigned drops off significantly after K, which tends to support the theory that the school is sending an early message to parents. The school works particularly hard over the first year to minimize the achievement gaps which exist when the kids arrive in K, with the goal of getting all the kids on a relatively equal footing coming out of K. K is a bit of an academic bootcamp, for students and parents alike. This makes it seem joyless, but it's not. The kids still sing, dance, do very goofy things, and have tons of parties and field trips. They have fun. It's less fun for the parents.

PP is also correct that there is a mandatory homework packet and reading challenge every summer (which also includes the kids entering K). I assume this is intended to address the "sumer slide."

If this is all true and data can prove that with parental help the achievement gap is minimized and for over a long period of time, this needs national attention. Right now parental help is not really part of the discussion on minimizing the achievement gap.

I'm pretty sure that this is not true.

http://educationnext.org/how-family-background-influences-student-achievement/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Madison is a 6?

If you dig deeper, it is the same issue that hurt them in US News ranking: One cohort in one year did bad on the SOL's

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

Does anyone know if there is data to suggest that the ATS VPI kids are outperforming the VPI kids at other schools? I'd be interested to see this information. Because that would point to this educational model being superior for certain subgroups.

Uh no it wouldn’t. It would prove that they have more invested patents. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Uh, yes it would. If parents put in for VPI, the spots are all lottery across the board. AFAIK. Are you saying they have to opt into that specific school? Isn't it just luck? Not effort?

[Anonymous]

Here is the GS phone. If you try for customer support it hangs up on you but if you hit zero it at least lets you leave a message.

tel:[phone]

They also have an email comments section on their website but it will just spit you back a canned reply justifying why they did what they did.

Personally I called to applaud the shift overall but to argue that measuring equity by penalizing a School for having a mix of low and high income kids at it ales no sense. They should instead measure how well the school does at educating disadvantaged kids at that school bs how those disadvantaged group of kids test across the state. That would still incentivize schools not to slight those kids while not slamming them for simply having a mixed population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is the GS phone. If you try for customer support it hangs up on you but if you hit zero it at least lets you leave a message.

tel:[phone]

They also have an email comments section on their website but it will just spit you back a canned reply justifying why they did what they did.

Personally I called to applaud the shift overall but to argue that measuring equity by penalizing a School for having a mix of low and high income kids at it ales no sense. They should instead measure how well the school does at educating disadvantaged kids at that school bs how those disadvantaged group of kids test across the state. That would still incentivize schools not to slight those kids while not slamming them for simply having a mixed population.

Exactly!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the GS phone. If you try for customer support it hangs up on you but if you hit zero it at least lets you leave a message.

tel:[phone]

They also have an email comments section on their website but it will just spit you back a canned reply justifying why they did what they did.

Personally I called to applaud the shift overall but to argue that measuring equity by penalizing a School for having a mix of low and high income kids at it ales no sense. They should instead measure how well the school does at educating disadvantaged kids at that school bs how those disadvantaged group of kids test across the state. That would still incentivize schools not to slight those kids while not slamming them for simply having a mixed population.

Exactly!

Don't be stupid, of course the high ses schools are better.

[Anonymous]

I know it shouldn't bother me but my elementary school dropped from a 7 to a 4. My mom had a big lecture today on how we can't send dd there for kindergarten next year. Nagging me to pay for private and why didn't I buy a few streets over where that school is better. Ugh. Neighborhood is high income mixed with 30% low income and that seems to have failed the school.

I will be sending my kid there but I'm pissed the score fell so much in one year, that low income students aren't doing well and that the school just isn't educating well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here is the GS phone. If you try for customer support it hangs up on you but if you hit zero it at least lets you leave a message.

tel:[phone]

They also have an email comments section on their website but it will just spit you back a canned reply justifying why they did what they did.

Personally I called to applaud the shift overall but to argue that measuring equity by penalizing a School for having a mix of low and high income kids at it ales no sense. They should instead measure how well the school does at educating disadvantaged kids at that school bs how those disadvantaged group of kids test across the state. That would still incentivize schools not to slight those kids while not slamming them for simply having a mixed population.

Exactly!

Don't be stupid, of course the high ses schools are better.

Don't be stupid.

The bolded post is saying ESL/low SES group progress should be compared between schools, not against the wealthy English speaking kids in their own schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

Does anyone know if there is data to suggest that the ATS VPI kids are outperforming the VPI kids at other schools? I'd be interested to see this information. Because that would point to this educational model being superior for certain subgroups.

Uh no it wouldn’t. It would prove that they have more invested patents. Why is this so hard to grasp?

Uh, yes it would. If parents put in for VPI, the spots are all lottery across the board. AFAIK. Are you saying they have to opt into that specific school? Isn't it just luck? Not effort?

Umm no. Most Low income parents choose the pre k nearest them. They don’t go out of their way for ATS. It’s literally self selecting. Get a clue.