New GS rankings

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

[Anonymous]

It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Exactly

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Well that seems hopeless . How in the world do you fix that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

+ 1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

[Anonymous]

we're at ATS. I think it's a combination of factors - the parents who put in the effort to get in through VPI clearly care about their kids' educations, just like the non-VPI parents who make the effort to enter the lottery and visit the school clearly care enough to take those extra steps. Once you get into ATS, they encourage all the rising kindergarteners to attend summer school, so they come in with certain basic skills. There is a fair amount of homework even in K, and they try to combat summer brain drain with reading challenges and math packets.

We've never been threatened with the ATS way, though - it's not like that. But you do know in the back of your mind that if your kid misbehaves, you might end up back at your home school. I panicked when my daughter was acting up in K because if we'd had to go back to ours, we'd be SOL for extended day, as our home school's extended day was full.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

There have been studies on this. Parents who just enter their kids in a lottery have kids who do a lot better. You don't have to attend the lottery school. Your parent just has to care and be sophisticated enough to try to get you in. So, it seems like it is all based on your family. So, likely not something that is fixable by the school or throwing money/resources at the problem. It is way more difficult than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's because the low income parents at ATS are Type A as well. You have to put effort in to enter the lottery.

Not really. They get in through VPI lottery and any parent who bothers to apply to VPI has an equal shot at getting in to ATS. There's not supposed to be an additional hurdle, unless ATS is engaging in some shenanigans to weed out certain families.

Right but they have to know enough / be able / have access to bother to apply.

Does anyone know if there is data to suggest that the ATS VPI kids are outperforming the VPI kids at other schools? I'd be interested to see this information. Because that would point to this educational model being superior for certain subgroups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

I'm an ATS parent (not of an economically disadvantaged child, however), and PP's comments ring true for me. The lottery deinitely plays into it, particularly the self-selecting group of parents who seek out ATS rather than other lottery/choice programs because of it's reputation (well founded or not) for high standards and academic rigor. But ATS expects a lot from its students and their families. There is a significant amount of homework, and a no-nonsense attitude about it. You don't get to opt out of the homework because you are philosophically opposed to it. That might fly at some other APS elementaries, but it won't at ATS. And you can't just ignore the homework assignments and hope they go away. If a child doesn't complete his/her homework, it gets sent home again the next night. It's very insistent. The school's, not unreasonable, attitude is that you opted in to this approach. I've certainly never heard of any ATS kids who have been shipped back to their neighborhood school because they don't complete their homework, but there is an implicit understanding at any lottery school that each child has another, readily available school option.

The homework assigned in K is particularly burdensome. I don't have a philosophical objection to homework for elementary age kids, even young ones (and yes, I do know about the research regarding its value), and understood full well that homework would be assigned in K, but even I was taken aback by the sheer volume. And here is the key part: that nightly homework in K absolutely required parental help. It was designed that way. It did occur to me at the time that this was a way of indocrinating new parents into the ATS way. By sending a strong message that parents were going to be very involved in their kids' education. It probably didn't matter much to my DS, because DH and I were always going to be involved in his education, no matter what. But this approach might have made a difference to the economically disadvantaged kids and families.

The amount of homework assigned drops off significantly after K, which tends to support the theory that the school is sending an early message to parents. The school works particularly hard over the first year to minimize the achievement gaps which exist when the kids arrive in K, with the goal of getting all the kids on a relatively equal footing coming out of K. K is a bit of an academic bootcamp, for students and parents alike. This makes it seem joyless, but it's not. The kids still sing, dance, do very goofy things, and have tons of parties and field trips. They have fun. It's less fun for the parents.

PP is also correct that there is a mandatory homework packet and reading challenge every summer (which also includes the kids entering K). I assume this is intended to address the "sumer slide."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

Look at their test scores by demographic compared to other schools in your district.

It might not be that their ESL population is performing higher than your ESL population.

It ight be that the higher performing demographics at their school are performing lower to the achievement gap is smaller.

These rstings are rewarding schools that close the achievement gap by lowering the output of the top performing groups, not by raising the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did you look at why? It is because they are failing low income students and the is a large achievement gap. For test scores overall it is still ranked well. I am glad GS changed their ratings.

I did spend quite some time reading about the new GS ratings technique. Regarding so many schools failing FARMS and ESL students, it's puzzling to me as so many different counties and cities school boards have put so much into aiding, not ignoring this problem over the last decade. More $$$, more teachers and aids, smaller class sizes, one on one tutoring, translation specialists who work with students and parents on how to help, support groups and more.

I'm not sure what the problem is that FARM and ESL students haven't seen greater gains on testing, but I don't think it is for lack of effort on the part of Northern Virginia public schools. Could it be that Great Schools is not picking up on ways students are achieving? Is NoVA seeing such a new influx of students each year such that it starts the wheel turning again? Is Common Core itself not succeeding?

Well I think part of it is inherent biases in standardized testing which is how GS rates things. But you are right. My son goes to Claremont and the school is still has a 15 to 20 or gap in test scores for Hispanic kids. Why is That? ATS does a really good job of educating disadvantaged kids. Why? What are they doing that other schools are not. How can we adopt these methods at other schools.


I think you also have to think about inherent biases many may have against Hispanic students ( whether intentional or not). Schools all around the country even in CA and AZ are failing Hispanic low ikncomd students. Why? It isn't just language, most Hispanic kids are fluent in English and American born. We see the same with black students. Why obviously aren't addressing why schools are really failing these students. I think there are a lot of biases we need to overcome if we really want to answer these.

It's parental help. The average white middle class family is extremely involved in their kids schooling and learning how to read. Same with Asians.

So ATS has a high level of parent involvement even for low income and minority students? I mean I know segregation plays a large part into this but I am just curious about what ATS does to overcome everything. Low income students achievement is scored a 9 there.

I have also heard that there is a lot of pressure put on families to do the work expected (which includes a LOT more homework than many other schools, and preparation even prior to K, such as summer school and a large packet of homework and required reading list over the summer). They are threatened that if they don't get on board with the ATS way, they will be sent back to their zoned school. For kids that may have a lot of catching up to do prior to Kindergarten, this method likely results in better test scores.

I'm an ATS parent (not of an economically disadvantaged child, however), and PP's comments ring true for me. The lottery deinitely plays into it, particularly the self-selecting group of parents who seek out ATS rather than other lottery/choice programs because of it's reputation (well founded or not) for high standards and academic rigor. But ATS expects a lot from its students and their families. There is a significant amount of homework, and a no-nonsense attitude about it. You don't get to opt out of the homework because you are philosophically opposed to it. That might fly at some other APS elementaries, but it won't at ATS. And you can't just ignore the homework assignments and hope they go away. If a child doesn't complete his/her homework, it gets sent home again the next night. It's very insistent. The school's, not unreasonable, attitude is that you opted in to this approach. I've certainly never heard of any ATS kids who have been shipped back to their neighborhood school because they don't complete their homework, but there is an implicit understanding at any lottery school that each child has another, readily available school option.

The homework assigned in K is particularly burdensome. I don't have a philosophical objection to homework for elementary age kids, even young ones (and yes, I do know about the research regarding its value), and understood full well that homework would be assigned in K, but even I was taken aback by the sheer volume. And here is the key part: that nightly homework in K absolutely required parental help. It was designed that way. It did occur to me at the time that this was a way of indocrinating new parents into the ATS way. By sending a strong message that parents were going to be very involved in their kids' education. It probably didn't matter much to my DS, because DH and I were always going to be involved in his education, no matter what. But this approach might have made a difference to the economically disadvantaged kids and families.

The amount of homework assigned drops off significantly after K, which tends to support the theory that the school is sending an early message to parents. The school works particularly hard over the first year to minimize the achievement gaps which exist when the kids arrive in K, with the goal of getting all the kids on a relatively equal footing coming out of K. K is a bit of an academic bootcamp, for students and parents alike. This makes it seem joyless, but it's not. The kids still sing, dance, do very goofy things, and have tons of parties and field trips. They have fun. It's less fun for the parents.

PP is also correct that there is a mandatory homework packet and reading challenge every summer (which also includes the kids entering K). I assume this is intended to address the "sumer slide."

If this is all true and data can prove that with parental help the achievement gap is minimized and for over a long period of time, this needs national attention. Right now parental help is not really part of the discussion on minimizing the achievement gap.

[Anonymous]

Maybe we should all denounce Great Schools.

I for one find there new data very wanting.