Why isn't St. Mary's College of Maryland a hot college?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you think it should be a "hot" school. Yes, school is small and beautiful. Yes, it focuses on liberal arts majors. Yes, it's out of nowhere... But those factors don't make the school "hot." It's been struggling to attract kids for a number of years with limited to no success - admit rate goes up, quality of kids goes down, money for FA/merit aid dries...

sources?

Read WP link PP provided and this from 2016-17 incoming class.

http://www.smcm.edu/ir/wp-content/uploads/sites/60/2014/07/SMCM-Factsheet-16-17-updated-2-24-17.pdf

dropped from 384 (first year students) to 334 (2016-17).

admit rate of 80%, SAT 75% of 1240 which is lower than UMCP's 25%tile (1280, I think?)

they need some serious $ help from the state. they cannot do it without state's funding help among other things.

[Anonymous]

SMCM is a gem that those of us in Maryland are lucky to have as a public option. The students that choose SMCM love it there and get a great education. However, it is not a good fit for anyone who wants big sports events, a huge campus, Greek life, or large lecture halls. SMCM has a beautiful campus on the water, their biggest sport is sailing, there are no fraternities or sororities, and the class sizes are small. My DD never wanted to consider UMD because of its size and even UMBC was too large for her tastes. She chose SMCM over several other “hotter” private SLACs (which made me very happy since SMCM’s in-state tuition was significantly less, even with some generous merit aid). Maybe the private SLACs had more name recognition, but she really preferred SMCM. I do think that SMCM could do a better job of marketing itself but, on the other hand, I’m glad that they don’t spend as much $ on marketing as other schools seem to.

[Anonymous]

SMCM seems like a great school to me. We wanted our DC to look at it when he were looking for colleges He was an exceptionally qualified candidate with many options and was fortunate that we could afford public or private. At the end of the day, he just felt like the opportunities afforded by a school with a greater reputation out of state, higher profile faculty, and a student body from all over the world, just outweighed the cost savings, and we accepted that analysis. If money was more of a factor, then SMCM probably would have been a great option.

As for UMCP vs. SMCM, it is apples and oranges as others have said. I wouldn't put much stock in comparing the SATs. Part of the advantage to UMCP is that the math scores are much higher -- more engineers and other STEM majors go to there over SMCM (and that's true of research universities vs. LACs generally.) And we know that UMCP plays games with its numbers - technically wait listing or rejecting students with lower numbers but allowing them to enroll in a few courses the first semester and live off campus, and then bring them on board second semester. Those students stats are not counted in the entering class. I suspect that SMCM is too small to play that game. But more kids these days want the bigger school /more choices offered at a flagship -- that is one reason why there are so few public honors colleges in the first place. And as noted by others, money/resources on a small scale are hard to fund for a state. But UMCP has another unique advantage -- its proximity to Washington DC. All in all, both schools are strong public options, but as always, it is all about finding the right fit for the kid.

[Anonymous]

SMCM seems like a great fit for my son..no interest in football..wants a smaller campus and loves to sail. Only flaw is he is considering Engineering which is not an option there.

[Anonymous]

STEM is alive and well at SMCM and students in those majors are very successful in finding jobs and acceptances to graduate and professional school. In fact STEM majors at SMCM are more successful in graduating underrepresented groups in STEM, as compared to the national average. Plenty of physics majors go on to engineering, bio majors go on to meet school, CS majors get industry jobs, etc. Majors from SLACs are highly regarded by employers because they are well rounded and can adapt to the ever-changing job market. Students from SLACs can think and communicate, as a whole, better than students in highly specialized programs. For those in the market for a SLAC, public liberal arts is a steal. There aren't many--search for schools in COPLAC to find them. Diversity is relative--SMCM is much better than many SLACs but not as good as other schools in the state. (And ask yourself what you consider diverse--racial? First gen? Low SES? Some diversity stats are not as easy to see as others). Ask yourself this...does every student at UMCP or Towson or UMBC do a capstone or undergrad thesis? No. Only the top students are chosen. Every student at SMCM does. That's why it's an honors college. It doesn't matter what their acceptance rate is--look at what their graduates do. And look at graduation rates. The training there is top notch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Middle of nowhere. Middle of Trump country.

What is that supposed to mean? Racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:STEM is alive and well at SMCM and students in those majors are very successful in finding jobs and acceptances to graduate and professional school. In fact STEM majors at SMCM are more successful in graduating underrepresented groups in STEM, as compared to the national average. Plenty of physics majors go on to engineering, bio majors go on to meet school, CS majors get industry jobs, etc. Majors from SLACs are highly regarded by employers because they are well rounded and can adapt to the ever-changing job market. Students from SLACs can think and communicate, as a whole, better than students in highly specialized programs. For those in the market for a SLAC, public liberal arts is a steal. There aren't many--search for schools in COPLAC to find them. Diversity is relative--SMCM is much better than many SLACs but not as good as other schools in the state. (And ask yourself what you consider diverse--racial? First gen? Low SES? Some diversity stats are not as easy to see as others). Ask yourself this...does every student at UMCP or Towson or UMBC do a capstone or undergrad thesis? No. Only the top students are chosen. Every student at SMCM does. That's why it's an honors college. It doesn't matter what their acceptance rate is--look at what their graduates do. And look at graduation rates. The training there is top notch.

Ugh... bunch of non sense. Phys major going to engineering? What are you talking about??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't understand why you think it should be a "hot" school. Yes, school is small and beautiful. Yes, it focuses on liberal arts majors. Yes, it's out of nowhere... But those factors don't make the school "hot." It's been struggling to attract kids for a number of years with limited to no success - admit rate goes up, quality of kids goes down, money for FA/merit aid dries...

sources?

Read WP link PP provided and this from 2016-17 incoming class.

http://www.smcm.edu/ir/wp-content/uploads/sites/60/2014/07/SMCM-Factsheet-16-17-updated-2-24-17.pdf

dropped from 384 (first year students) to 334 (2016-17).

admit rate of 80%, SAT 75% of 1240 which is lower than UMCP's 25%tile (1280, I think?)

they need some serious $ help from the state. they cannot do it without state's funding help among other things.

LOL. It's easier to get in than comm colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:School's only as good as kids who go there and professors who teach there. St. Mary has neither. I can't believe OP is comparing St. Mary with Bowdoin. Apples and oranges, OP.

Yeah, as an alum I'm going to have to disagree. SMCM's Math department is nothing short of amazing, and the Science programs are incredibly strong as well. Same goes for the English department.

[Anonymous]

1,700 undergraduates. Not enough students - - some away for study abroad, some transfer, 1/4 turn over every year with graduation. It's just not enough students. Not enough for students to find their peer group and be satisfied. I think the state of Maryland should provide space for 3-4X as many students with facilities and on campus housing for all, then SMCM has a fighting chance at survival.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh... bunch of non sense. Phys major going to engineering? What are you talking about??

So you think that only people with a BS in engineering go on to grad school in engineering? Think again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't it a College That Changes Lives?

OP here. Yes, but why are the stats so low? Why don't I hear about people clamoring to go? With all the threads on Bowdoin and how am I going to pay for this SLAC or that SLAC, why isn't St. Mary's ever a contender? I just don't get it.

Because a lot of people incorrectly regard state SLACs as inferior to big flagships. It's a lovely school and a great fit for a lot of high stats kids who are looking for community and rigor vs. the rah rah atmosphere.

+1
Our kids would have loved to go there, but we're out of state and don't want to pay higher tuition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because the people in the market for SLACs are not looking for a public school. Most people would prefer a research University. SLACs are preferred by the wealthy who have immature children they feel need sheltering.

I'm not a St. Mary's grad and did not go to a SLAC (went to a research university), and I can say that nobody should listen to this PP, who is biased and appallingly ignorant. Students should go to whatever school has the majors and programs they need, whether that's a SLAC or someplace else. It's ridiculously snobbish to assume that SLACs offer nothing academically desirable but exist only to coddle rich kids. It's equally snobbish (and incredibly ill-informed) to assume that research universities are what "most people would prefer." Do some research to understand why large research universities are not good for certain programs, especially if the university focuses on grad students to the detriment of its undergrads. That was not an issue in my program at my university but it is a problem in many undergrad programs. Do some reading about education today, rather than perpetuating stereotypes about both SLACs and research universities.

I hope that this PP's kids get real-world college selection advice from a good counselor, not from PP.

+ 1,000,000
PP sounds incredibly ignorant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:SMCM is a gem that those of us in Maryland are lucky to have as a public option. The students that choose SMCM love it there and get a great education. However, it is not a good fit for anyone who wants big sports events, a huge campus, Greek life, or large lecture halls. SMCM has a beautiful campus on the water, their biggest sport is sailing, there are no fraternities or sororities, and the class sizes are small. My DD never wanted to consider UMD because of its size and even UMBC was too large for her tastes. She chose SMCM over several other “hotter” private SLACs (which made me very happy since SMCM’s in-state tuition was significantly less, even with some generous merit aid). Maybe the private SLACs had more name recognition, but she really preferred SMCM. I do think that SMCM could do a better job of marketing itself but, on the other hand, I’m glad that they don’t spend as much $ on marketing as other schools seem to.

This is exactly why it appeals to my kids - neither want the big, "rah-rah" university. Neither want Greek life. Both want to be someplace quiet and rural. Sounds perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ugh... bunch of non sense. Phys major going to engineering? What are you talking about??

So you think that only people with a BS in engineering go on to grad school in engineering? Think again.

Actually, I do. Almost 30 years working as an engineer, I don't believer I have ever met an engineer with masters/phd with non engineering bs degree such as physics.